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Old
10-17-2012, 08:15 PM
  #26
BonkTastic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Personally, I think our areas of weakness, in order of importance, for this season are as follows:

1) First line LW.
- Won't happen

2) #2 D
- Won't happen

3) 4th line RW.
- Condra's an area of weakness. Maybe Stone can step in, but I'd rather deal a midling prospect for an "elite" 4th liner that can be our bottom 6 one-two RW punch with Neil for the long-term, then let Stone/Zibby fight for the 2nd line spot next season.

4) 4th line LW
- Greening should make an excellent 3rd line LW going forward. But we could use another good mean and potatoes guy for the 4th line.

It would be nice to cash in a few of our depth guys to get a solid 4th line that we can rely on for years.
Disagree... in fact, it's one of the few instances where I agree completely with MAK: I think we have a great 4th line. Condra is getting the Chris Kelly treatment on these boards. Condra's a very good PKer... sure, he has little offensive upside past anything he's shown so far, but he's a FAR better 4th liner than the league average.

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10-17-2012, 08:16 PM
  #27
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If the cap is as is being discussed. We will be able to establish a 1st line LW next year fairly easily either via trade, especially due to our abundance of prospects performing exceptionally well so far, or via free-agency.

I love the situation we are currently in. For number 2D, as CH has stated above, he can fill in that role, he seems to have matured and improved his pose significantly in the games I've seen so far of him. Much more aware on the blue-line. It may be 2 games but you can tell these attributes even from 10 minutes.

However, if Cowen does not fulfill it, I truly believe we have a solid bunch of top 4 D's that can rotate in maintaining the minutes needed for us to have a stronger defensive system.

Karlsson
Methot
Cowen
Phillips
Gonchar

P.S. Don't rule out Latendresse or Silfverberg for that Top line LW position for the time-being. 50 points along-side Spezza and Michalek is more than suffice for that line to be considered successful and I think one of those two achieving that is not out of the question.

If we had a legitimate top line LW, I'd expect us to win the Division followed by challenging for the East with a possible deadline transaction.

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10-17-2012, 08:17 PM
  #28
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Feeling creative.

Zibanejad/Spezza/Silfverberg
Michalek/Turris/Alfredson
Latendress/Smith/Neil
Greening/Regin/Condra

O'brien
Daugavins

Slide in JOB and the Rooster when Latendress and Regin go down.

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Old
10-17-2012, 08:29 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
That #2D could very well be Cowen by the end of the season.

I'd argue we could use another top-6 winger on top of that 1LW, but perhaps that's being greedy.

As far as the 4th liners go, I'd rather sit and wait on that until we're ready to be a contender. Easy to add a cheap bottom-line guy around the deadline. Until then, Condra's fine as a 4th liner.
I agree about Cowen.

I'd like to stop treating our 4th line as the holding spot for the leftovers though. I want younger guys that can excel in that role long-term (Neil being the prototype player), not guys who are there because they can't crack one of the other lines. Agree about Condra being a decent stand in as well, but he just doesn't have enough of the energy/grit factor for my likings. I think O'Brien's close too.

Personally, I think good bottom pairing guys are underrated and can be had for a bargain. I'd like to be the team with the best bottom 6 in hockey, especially when playoffs role around and these guys decide games.


Last edited by Fenix Rises 2026: 10-17-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
10-17-2012, 09:36 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Disagree... in fact, it's one of the few instances where I agree completely with MAK: I think we have a great 4th line. Condra is getting the Chris Kelly treatment on these boards. Condra's a very good PKer... sure, he has little offensive upside past anything he's shown so far, but he's a FAR better 4th liner than the league average.
This, and Condra is much more than just a great PKer.

The reality is he's a 7/8 forward who can fill in the top 6 with injuries. We are blessed to have him on line 4.

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Old
10-17-2012, 09:42 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
I agree about Cowen.
Cowen's looking smoother with the puck. If that trends upward over the next couple years you could potentially close to #1 D. He handled franchise minutes for a bit last year...and he just might take a couple steps with his skills like you'd think a big guy may at this age. He's got the head or it.

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10-18-2012, 07:49 AM
  #32
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Out of interest, I posted on the main board asking about the consensus best bottom 6 prototype players in the NHL. Here is a list of some of the main guys (Neil too of course ). Obviously teams love these guys and the asking price would be high. What do you think, do we have the assets to get one or two of these guys and would you pull the trigger on a deal?

(Mods/OP: not trying to hijack the thread, but still in the world of our bottom 6 so thought this might fly - feel free to delete)

Quote:
Kopecky, M. Martin, Gaustad, Abdelkader, Cooke, LaPierre, Winnik, Stoll, Kelly, Prust, Helm, Hansen, Raymond, Goc, Paille, Clutterbuck, D. King, Moss, Talbot, Ott, Hendricks, S. Thornton

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Old
10-18-2012, 07:55 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Feeling creative.

Zibanejad/Spezza/Silfverberg
Michalek/Turris/Alfredson
Latendress/Smith/Neil
Greening/Regin/Condra

O'brien
Daugavins

Slide in JOB and the Rooster when Latendress and Regin go down.
That 2nd line is better than the first.

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Old
10-18-2012, 08:38 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
That 2nd line is better than the first.
Arguably. The best player, a center, is on the 1st line though centering two talented young players. It's a balanced top 6 putting the onus on Spezza to carry a line...if he does, those two could score.

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10-18-2012, 08:47 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Arguably. The best player, a center, is on the 1st line though centering two talented young players. It's a balanced top 6 putting the onus on Spezza to carry a line...if he does, those two could score.
Guy has a bad back though. Is heavy lifting such a great idea?

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Old
10-18-2012, 08:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by WantEggRoll View Post
Guy has a bad back though. Is heavy lifting such a great idea?
As long as he lifts with his legs.

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10-18-2012, 09:08 AM
  #37
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Both Zibby and Silf will go hard into the corners taking the abuse leaving Spezza to set up the plays. And for some reason Spezza does really well with kids. Greening, Butler for example.

I thought the Michalek/Turris/Alfy line looked good last season when they used it.

i think Latendress adds something to Smith and Neils line. Watching Latendress he does get physical and wont take away from the energy line.

With Greening/Regin/Condra it looks like an actual 4th line opposed to a line of left overs. I think they will complement each other well.

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Old
10-18-2012, 10:56 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
That 2nd line is better than the first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Arguably. The best player, a center, is on the 1st line though centering two talented young players. It's a balanced top 6 putting the onus on Spezza to carry a line...if he does, those two could score.
Spezza's most important linemate last year was Karlsson. If those two get a lot of time together, Spezza's line will generate offense regardless of who his linemates are IMO.

Regin could end up there for a stretch for all we know. Spezza-Karlsson-Regin had a good run together a few years ago. Not saying it will happen again, but the point is that you put any player with a some basic level of offensive instincts and worth ethic on the ice with Spezza and Karlsson and that player has a good chance of doing well.

To be honest, our first scoring line is probably the one that plays the most with Karlsson.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:00 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Germz View Post
Spezza's most important linemate last year was Karlsson. If those two get a lot of time together, Spezza's line will generate offense regardless of who his linemates are IMO.

Regin could end up there for a stretch for all we know. Spezza-Karlsson-Regin had a good run together a few years ago. Not saying it will happen again, but the point is that you put any player with a some basic level of offensive instincts and worth ethic on the ice with Spezza and Karlsson and that player has a good chance of doing well.

To be honest, our first scoring line is probably the one that plays the most with Karlsson.
Good point.

But I'd continue to argue that flanking Spezza with Zibanejad and Silfverberg could, in theory, work pretty quickly if they are the ones playing most often with Karlsson. If you ask those two to fend for themselves, you won't get as much out of them in the early going. You serve the puck to them on a silver platter and you might see some very nice production out of them in their rookie seasons.

It's something I wouldn't hesitate to look into if I was coach but I doubt it's something that will actually stick in the early going.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:13 AM
  #40
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Regarding the bottom six (since my first post was off-topic), we have a lot of options and it will depend quite a bit on what happens with Silfverberg, Zibanejad or even Stone.

Greening and Regin are, I think, best seen as "middle 6" forwards. Greening could spend a lot of the season going back and forth between all four lines, really. With Regin, health is a concern, and his prolonged injuries make him a bit of an unknown right now, but he could also spend the season bouncing between scoring and checking line duty. So I wouldn't set either player definitively in the bottom-6 because they will move around. The same is probably true of Zibanejad and/or Silfverberg if they make the club. You can expect those 3-4 players to jockey for position all year.

I think O'Brien will be a mainstay on the 4th line all season. He can alternate between centre and winger, though, most likely depending on what role Zack Smith is playing, which in turn may depend on what role Regin is playing!

Chris Neil is a lock to get consistent 3rd line minutes, barring a major drop-off in his play.

Daugavins I expect will be the 13th forward, as others have said.

Condra I don't really know. The coach seems awful fond of him. He may start the season in a 4th line role but will be the first to get increased minutes if we are struggling with injuries or defensive play.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Good point.

But I'd continue to argue that flanking Spezza with Zibanejad and Silfverberg could, in theory, work pretty quickly if they are the ones playing most often with Karlsson. If you ask those two to fend for themselves, you won't get as much out of them in the early going. You serve the puck to them on a silver platter and you might see some very nice production out of them in their rookie seasons.

It's something I wouldn't hesitate to look into if I was coach but I doubt it's something that will actually stick in the early going.
This is an instance where losing our training camp to the lockout hurts us, because it means Maclean won't really have an opportunity to make this kind of bold experiment before the real games start. So I think it is unlikely. I do think that it could be a successful line in the long-term , but maybe not until both of those young players have shown that they can backcheck effectively at an NHL level, something we usually need in at least one of Spezza's wingers.

On the bright side, the lockout is giving Zibanejad and Silfverberg some games in the AHL to see how they handle NA hockey after a summer of training. You can bet Maclean and his staff are keeping a close eye.

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #42
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This is probably weighing too heavily on a couple of Silf,Zib,Stone, Regin to step up as top-six guys, but I would really like if we rolled with this as the bottom-six.

Latendresse - Smith - Neil
Greening - O'Brien - Condra

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:33 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Out of interest, I posted on the main board asking about the consensus best bottom 6 prototype players in the NHL. Here is a list of some of the main guys (Neil too of course ). Obviously teams love these guys and the asking price would be high. What do you think, do we have the assets to get one or two of these guys and would you pull the trigger on a deal?

(Mods/OP: not trying to hijack the thread, but still in the world of our bottom 6 so thought this might fly - feel free to delete)
The problem with that list is that the majority of players on there are in their late 20's/early 30's. The sens are building a younger team so most of those players are simply too old for the direction that the organization is heading in. Although Dwight King and/or Cal Clutterbuck would be solid additions to the team.

Beside the sens have a lot of prospects pushing for spots and they need to provide spots for them. Players like Dziurzynski, Noesen and Hoffman are pretty much ready to take spots in the bottom six. Then we have players like Stone and Zibanejad who could start off in the bottom six and then work there way up to the top six.

And we could have added Marcus Foligno to that group if we would have drafted him instead of Chris Wideman.

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Old
10-19-2012, 12:39 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Assuming a Top 6 with some form of

Michalek - Spezza - Silfverberg
Latendress - Turris - Alfredsson

I see a bottom six of

Greening - Smith - Neil
Zibanejad - Regin - Condra

with O'Brien as the 13; 1st call up Hoffman (LW), Stone (RW)

I hope Latendress gives way by time so Zibanejad can play some Top 6 minutes.
This is how I see it - except I don't think both Zibanejad and Silfverberg will make it. One of them earns a top 6 spot, the other plays in Bingo. O'Brien earned his chance to play on the 4th line.

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Old
10-19-2012, 01:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post

And we could have added Marcus Foligno to that group if we would have drafted him instead of Chris Wideman.
... or even Mattias Ekholm, I never did understand that pick that year.. oh well...

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