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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
10-18-2012, 09:44 AM
  #176
turkinaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Your post seemed to insinuate that the CBA would be considered an ex post facto law and the subsequent post of another mentioned the constitutionality of ex post facto laws. I was simply clarifying that the CBA would not be violating the Ex Post Facto Clause because the CBA is not a law. Wanted to make sure everyone was up to date on their constitutional law. Haha.
No sorry for the confusion.

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I doubt it. Maybe some middle-of-the-road players and some scrubs, but I doubt Yakupov or any other young guys bail to Europe.
I cannot wait for a counter proposal to see this clause get removed, or at least modified in some way to not affected current contracts - as well as other things. I just hate dwelling on something that might not be an issue in a few days or weeks.

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10-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #177
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I had a dream this morning that the lockout abruptly ended and I was reading it on TSN.

Having said this..I think it's a pipe dream that an end to the lockout will be sudden but I wish. I'm now officially having more pronounced feelings of hockey withdrawal.

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10-18-2012, 11:57 AM
  #178
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A response(not a counter offer) is coming from the NHLPA today.

Also big guns have all showed for the meetings. Crosby, Toews, Stall. etc...

Bob Mac is tweeting some things that make me feel like we could be going down the wrong road here. I hope that is not the case.


Last edited by Prongo: 10-18-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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Old
10-18-2012, 12:12 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Counter offer coming from the NHLPA today.

Also big guns have all showed for the meetings. Crosby, Toews, Stall. etc...

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10-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #180
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Please, players...don't derail progress

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10-18-2012, 01:52 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
An ex post facto law is a law. This is a collective bargaining agreement. While it may not be smart or "fair" to punish the teams for contracts made before the rule change, it is not an "ex post facto law" and it is completely legal.
As DrinkFightFlyers said, ex post fact only relates to criminal law, not civil.

EDIT: Also, the Constitution is a rulebook for the Government, not two parties bargaining.

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10-18-2012, 02:33 PM
  #182
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ok, looks like NHL PA is going to counter, I wonder how long the ping pong game will last.

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:43 PM
  #183
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If they say 57% and completely reject contract limits we're screwed.

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10-18-2012, 02:45 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by PHILOUDELPHIA View Post
ok, looks like NHL PA is going to counter, I wonder how long the ping pong game will last.
NHLPA offer a tweeted offer of the NHL offer with a soft landing .

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10-18-2012, 02:46 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
If they say 57% and completely reject contract limits we're screwed.
My guess: they give some sort of qualified acceptance of the 50/50 target (maybe 52,51,50...) and reject all the contract limits.

(which actually isn't at all an unreasonable proposal).

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10-18-2012, 02:52 PM
  #186
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If the players came back and said 57%, I would first laugh out loud and then immeadiately give up all hope of there being a season.

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10-18-2012, 03:07 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
If the players came back and said 57%, I would first laugh out loud and then immeadiately give up all hope of there being a season.
Thankfully that will not be the case.

The PA has four offers, all of which are gradual steps to end at a 50-50 split

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10-18-2012, 03:20 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Thankfully that will not be the case.

The PA has four offers, all of which are gradual steps to end at a 50-50 split
Where'd you see that?

I don't doubt you, just curious.

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10-18-2012, 03:21 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Where'd you see that?

I don't doubt you, just curious.
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod

Of the 4 proposals being presented to the NHL by the NHLPA, all include a gradual step towards 50/50 split. Year 1 starts around 54/46.

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10-18-2012, 03:22 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Where'd you see that?

I don't doubt you, just curious.
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
Of the 4 proposals being presented to the NHL by the NHLPA, all include a gradual step towards 50/50 split. Year 1 starts around 54/46.

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10-18-2012, 03:25 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Where'd you see that?

I don't doubt you, just curious.
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Of the multiple (4) proposals discussed on PA"s conference call, all include gradual step-downs to 50-50.

Also a French article translated to say the same thing.
http://tvasports.ca/tvasports/hockey...18-111058.html

Check out the thread on the Business Board, its like up to the minute reports

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:25 PM
  #192
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im sure the owners want more years of 50/50. if it starts at 54/46 and goes 53/47, 52,48 ect i would doubt they would bite IMO

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10-18-2012, 03:28 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
im sure the owners want more years of 50/50. if it starts at 54/46 and goes 53/47, 52,48 ect i would doubt they would bite IMO
I would think the NHL comes back to get them down to 49% for the last 2 years if they want the gradual step down so badly.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:29 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
im sure the owners want more years of 50/50. if it starts at 54/46 and goes 53/47, 52,48 ect i would doubt they would bite IMO
Im thinking if they have an offer starting at 54, it means they could go a little lower with some bargaining.

53/47, 51.5/48.5, 50/50 seems reasonable.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:31 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Im thinking if they have an offer starting at 54, it means they could go a little lower with some bargaining.

53/47, 51.5/48.5, 50/50 seems reasonable.
yeah im not sure how gradual it is. 50/50 by year 3 at the very least is something the owners consiter

Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I would think the NHL comes back to get them down to 49% for the last 2 years if they want the gradual step down so badly.
I could see that. Not that the NHLPA goes for that. maybe the last year?

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10-18-2012, 03:38 PM
  #196
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The players gave last time and the owners are trying agian to get without giving.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:44 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
The players gave last time and the owners are trying agian to get without giving.
guess you missed the last offer from the NHL.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:49 PM
  #198
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So, am I the only one totally preoccupied with this Richards/Carter dilemma?

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
So, am I the only one totally preoccupied with this Richards/Carter dilemma?
I'll worry about it when one or both of them retires before the next CBA.

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10-18-2012, 03:54 PM
  #200
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Nothing seems reasonable to me beyond a 50/50 split.

If, and only if, it started at 54% and moved down to 50% and looked as if it were going to stay there for the future CBAs, would I as a hypothetical owner agree to it.

Raising years on ELCs and RFA age seems like another way to invisibly take future money for players. Players have a point-- if they are coming down in terms of cash-- they shouldn't also lose years in terms of getting paychecks they earned on their own merits -- having nothing to do with any business model the owners can claim responsibility for -- but merits they earned within that system.

It's one thing to go 50/50 with the owners on the total business revenue which both the owners and players create, but getting paid by reaching a talent level within that system, fighting to get to the UFA years, is much more player generated. It's almost a reward.

Losing salary and the "reward" of UFA years being longer. I would be remiss as a player to do both.

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