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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:55 PM
  #201
GoneFullHolmgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoFlyers1825 View Post
So, am I the only one totally preoccupied with this Richards/Carter dilemma?
why? its somethng being proposed in the new CBA. its a negotating tactic IMO. dont worry about it yet.

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10-18-2012, 02:56 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I'll worry about it when one or both of them retires before the next CBA.
I just can't stand getting punished for contract that were approved by the league before they were illegal. Here is to hoping it is a non-issue and is not integral to any negotiation

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10-18-2012, 02:56 PM
  #203
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From Dreger: Bettman calls todays meeting and 3 PA proposals a "step backwards"

Pierre LeBrun: Bettman Confirms NHLPA made three counter proposals. Says none of them "even began to approach 50-50"


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10-18-2012, 02:57 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
why? its somethng being proposed in the new CBA. its a negotating tactic IMO. dont worry about it yet.
Well my worry is that the players would not have a problem with it, the owners should. Yet the owners are the ones who offered it.

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10-18-2012, 02:57 PM
  #205
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I'd like to see those proposals.

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10-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #206
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none of the proposals get to 50/50 split per Lebron on twitter

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman confirms NHLPA made three counter proposals. Says none of them "even began to approach 50-50." Not encouraged

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8m Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
"I am to say the least totally disappointed." - Bettman

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9m Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman calls it a "step backward."

Expand Collapse

hope=gone

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10-18-2012, 03:00 PM
  #207
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It's going to be a long winter.

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10-18-2012, 03:03 PM
  #208
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Players can go **** themselves.

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10-18-2012, 03:03 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
The players gave last time and the owners are trying agian to get without giving.
The players ended up with 57% of the revenue and a huge loophole that lets them get the majority of their money up front with cap circumventing deals that let them retire down the road and only sacrificing a small portion of their huge contract. None of what the owners are proposing is that ridiculous, sure there is some room for negotiation but the PA has proven time and time again to be unwilling to negotiate under anything but their terms.

The players need a dose of reality. 50/50 is going to happen and the best way for them to soften the blow is to not sacrifice games. Baseball is the only sport that has contracts even remotely as ridiculous as the NHL, and that's because there is no salary cap (and the DH rule let's players prolong their career in ways other sports can't).

I was pro player when this started because it was silly for the owners to want protection from themselves at the expense of the players. However, the NHL is at least trying to make this work. 50/50 is where this is going, and getting their money deferred is a starting point. The PA decided they were going to take the inch and reach for a mile.

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10-18-2012, 03:03 PM
  #210
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"Expand Collapse" is a great way to sum up people's hope from yesterday to today.

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10-18-2012, 03:05 PM
  #211
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Stick a fork in 'em.

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10-18-2012, 03:09 PM
  #212
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Bettman is playing the PR game perfectly though.

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10-18-2012, 03:09 PM
  #213
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I would like to wish the NHLPA good luck in trying to convince the fans they want hockey anytime soon.

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10-18-2012, 03:09 PM
  #214
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Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Only detail Bettman provided was that the player's proposal included an increased share of HRR in year 1 ...

WTF?

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10-18-2012, 03:12 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Only detail Bettman provided was that the player's proposal included an increased share of HRR in year 1 ...

WTF?
really?
GTFO NHLPA.

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10-18-2012, 03:13 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
guess you missed the last offer from the NHL.
No.

The owners lowered their own demands, they conceded nothing from the existing system. There's a pretty big difference, in my opinion.

Getting to 50/50 obviosuly makes sense. Asking for the pretty extensive new restrictions on contract as well seems a bit of a reach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Nothing seems reasonable to me beyond a 50/50 split.

If, and only if, it started at 54% and moved down to 50% and looked as if it were going to stay there for the future CBAs, would I as a hypothetical owner agree to it.

Raising years on ELCs and RFA age seems like another way to invisibly take future money for players. Players have a point-- if they are coming down in terms of cash-- they shouldn't also lose years in terms of getting paychecks they earned on their own merits -- having nothing to do with any business model the owners can claim responsibility for -- but merits they earned within that system.

It's one thing to go 50/50 with the owners on the total business revenue which both the owners and players create, but getting paid by reaching a talent level within that system, fighting to get to the UFA years, is much more player generated. It's almost a reward.

Losing salary and the "reward" of UFA years being longer. I would be remiss as a player to do both.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly my view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Only detail Bettman provided was that the player's proposal included an increased share of HRR in year 1 ...

WTF?
That's odd, to be sure. The only thing that would make sense is if the definition of HRR was narrower--or if the players said that was the price of accepting the new contract limits (which would be counterproductive, in my view). I can't imagine them asking for more money, but I guess at least they do what the owners did--lower their own demands later and call it a concession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Bettman is playing the PR game perfectly though.
God I had Frank Luntz.


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Old
10-18-2012, 03:13 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
The players ended up with 57% of the revenue and a huge loophole that lets them get the majority of their money up front with cap circumventing deals that let them retire down the road and only sacrificing a small portion of their huge contract. None of what the owners are proposing is that ridiculous, sure there is some room for negotiation but the PA has proven time and time again to be unwilling to negotiate under anything but their terms.

The players need a dose of reality. 50/50 is going to happen and the best way for them to soften the blow is to not sacrifice games. Baseball is the only sport that has contracts even remotely as ridiculous as the NHL, and that's because there is no salary cap (and the DH rule let's players prolong their career in ways other sports can't).

I was pro player when this started because it was silly for the owners to want protection from themselves at the expense of the players. However, the NHL is at least trying to make this work. 50/50 is where this is going, and getting their money deferred is a starting point. The PA decided they were going to take the inch and reach for a mile.
Pretty much. Other then the few people on this board and probably the entire nhl fanbase that supported the owners, I think most were on the players side. I was impressed with what the owners did, which I think a 50/50 was fair. Yea some of their other **** was stupid but most of it was most likely meant to be renegotiated anyway (you know, choose the best thing for themselves and slowly go to what was fair).

Honestly though this showed that the players aren't going to negotiate down, and will only except an offer where they are making more. Wouldn't be surprised if many of the fans on the players side are shifting over now. 50/50 seemed fair to the owners, and even most fans. The only ones that didnt like it were the players since they want as much money as they can get.

Oh well, pack in and get ready for a full season lockout.

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10-18-2012, 03:15 PM
  #218
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The owners conceded nothing, technically, but they provided a base to at least work from. The players, reportedly, have flung poop at that base and run away, instead of trying to work towards making it fit some of their wants.

I'm waiting to see some concrete details before I get my rage on. I just want the damned season to start. It's looking bad though.

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10-18-2012, 03:19 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
The owners conceded nothing, technically, but they provided a base to at least work from. The players, reportedly, have flung poop at that base and run away, instead of trying to work towards making it fit some of their wants.

I'm waiting to see some concrete details before I get my rage on. I just want the damned season to start. It's looking bad though.
The owners at least took a leap of faith. 50/50 is the end game, both sides know that. Instead of ***** footing back and forth where they inch their way there the NHL threw out an offer in hopes of getting 82 games in. We don't have any details, but it sounds like the PA thinks the owners are desperate for 82 games and will cave. I'm hoping this was a pure bluff, but god damn is it frustrating.

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10-18-2012, 03:21 PM
  #220
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Isn't the 82 game schedule beneficial to both sides?

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10-18-2012, 03:24 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
The owners at least took a leap of faith. 50/50 is the end game, both sides know that. Instead of ***** footing back and forth where they inch their way there the NHL threw out an offer in hopes of getting 82 games in. We don't have any details, but it sounds like the PA thinks the owners are desperate for 82 games and will cave. I'm hoping this was a pure bluff, but god damn is it frustrating.
I don't really agree. The owners know the best they can get is 50-50, so they started with that in this offer, and then used that "concession" to leverage in the contract restrictions. I don't see how that's a leap of faith.

A reasonable deal would be something close to 50-50 but that left all those out.

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10-18-2012, 03:27 PM
  #222
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54% descending down to 50, 7 year contract limit, ease up on FA demands. Boom. Settled.

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10-18-2012, 03:28 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
The owners conceded nothing, technically, but they provided a base to at least work from. The players, reportedly, have flung poop at that base and run away, instead of trying to work towards making it fit some of their wants.

I'm waiting to see some concrete details before I get my rage on. I just want the damned season to start. It's looking bad though.
exactly. maybe the owners offer wasnt ideal but it was a step in the right direction. The players came in and seem to want more then what they had in the last CBA. its like throwing lighter fluid on a camp fire. Now its a raging inferno burning out of control.
The owners arent willing to negotiate? what would you call demanding more then what you had the last time? Do the players care about the fans? on the surface it would appear not so much.

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10-18-2012, 03:29 PM
  #224
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I hope that across the NHL, when it comes back, that every single player is booed unmercifully during the introductions during the first game.

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10-18-2012, 03:30 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
exactly. maybe the owners offer wasnt ideal but it was a step in the right direction. The players came in and seem to want more then what they had in the last CBA. its like throwing lighter fluid on a camp fire. Now its a raging inferno burning out of control.
The owners arent willing to negotiate? what would you call demanding more then what you had the last time? Do the players care about the fans? on the surface it would appear not so much.
Do we know what the players offered at all?

If we don't, it seems a bit of a stretch to take Bettman's poll-tested statements as true, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
I hope that across the NHL, when it comes back, that every single player is booed unmercifully during the introductions during the first game.
As long as the owners box is pelted with rotten fruit as well.

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