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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
For all the people crowing about Bettman winning the PR battle and stuff like that, shouldn't you feel insulted and upset that Bettman is trying to negotiate through the fans instead of with the players union? Instead of getting a deal done shouldn't you feel upset that you're being viewed as just a tool for billionaires to extract more money from millionaires?
And... the players weren't doing that prior to the 50/50 proposal? They're both playing the game.

I for one am/have been insulted by the whole mess. It's a candid and disgusting insight into greed at it's finest.

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10-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
For all the people crowing about Bettman winning the PR battle and stuff like that, shouldn't you feel insulted and upset that Bettman is trying to negotiate through the fans instead of with the players union? Instead of getting a deal done shouldn't you feel upset that you're being viewed as just a tool for billionaires to extract more money from millionaires?
No. Everyone wants to get on the fans sides. I dont view it as personal - I think this whole thing is fascinating.

Whats more, it Bettman and his team have created the optic of being the adults in the room. Ill wait for a final opinion until I see more details of the player's offers, but it sure seems like theyre fighting a losing battle.

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10-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
This post completely ignores the fact that all the NHL players went on social media, and news outlets today preaching "cautious optimism"

BOTH SIDES are playing the fans, because they both know they're ****ing us.

I'm not picking sides, well trying not to as I lean more pro-owners these days. Just gonna sit back and wait for details of the PA's proposals to leak. Though reading tweets saying that the PA proposed increased HRR in year one is enough to get me going more pro-owners.

I'd bet their proposals again instituted some sort of fixed number for the players share of HRR, probably around $1.65 billion, if Bettman was telling the truth in saying that their proposal today wasn't far from their summer proposal. But again, I'm willing to wait and draw my own conclusions and see just how far off they are.
Oh I don't disagree that the players do it too, I just think people getting worked up about PR and thinking one side or the other is being "masterful" at the PR game is kind of missing the point.

And yeah I actually want to see what the proposals were like, not just accept Bettman's comments at face value like many seem to be doing. I'll be plenty annoyed at the NHLPA if they were blowing smoke with a crappy offer, but I'd rather wait and see what they say first

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10-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #729
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First Blush on Today's Negoitation: not good. Second Blush: this is a negotiation
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...24776344006656

Quote:
NHL impasse predictable. Fehr was not going to accept the 50/50 split with all the hidden tricks behind it.
https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/259025115738681344

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:17 PM
  #730
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its clearly not yet a negotiation for the players since they came back with offers that have nothing to do with the owners' offer

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10-18-2012, 04:18 PM
  #731
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Henrik Lundqvist ‏@henriklundqvist
anybody know what a 50/50 split of nothing is??? because that's what the players and owners are going to be splitting at this rate
OK Hank - step in

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10-18-2012, 04:18 PM
  #732
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Backes to me via text: "We feel our newest proposal took a great step towards getting a deal done. It's too bad the owners don't feel that way and I fear that we may miss an extended amount of time now."

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
its clearly not yet a negotiation for the players since they came back with offers that have nothing to do with the owners' offer
Except you dont' know that's what happened for sure yet? Why would you blindly take Bettman's word on this?

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but until I see some details I'm not going to get all huffy about it

I am curious about why we saw a bunch of player related people tweeting that there was a 50-50 split in the players proposals

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10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #734
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OK Hank - step in
Thats not Hank, Hank is @HLundqvist30

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10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #735
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its clearly not yet a negotiation for the players since they came back with offers that have nothing to do with the owners' offer
That's it. I would be perfectly ok with the players coming back with 100% old HRR rules, 54-55% split, 10 year deals. That is negotiating.

If it is true that they were not even using the existing framework than it is beyond negotiating.

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10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
This post completely ignores the fact that all the NHL players went on social media, and news outlets today preaching "cautious optimism"

BOTH SIDES are playing the fans, because they both know they're ****ing us.

I'm not picking sides, well trying not to as I lean more pro-owners these days. Just gonna sit back and wait for details of the PA's proposals to leak. Though reading tweets saying that the PA proposed increased HRR in year one is enough to get me going more pro-owners.

I'd bet their proposals again instituted some sort of fixed number for the players share of HRR, probably around $1.65 billion, if Bettman was telling the truth in saying that their proposal today wasn't far from their summer proposal. But again, I'm willing to wait and draw my own conclusions and see just how far off they are.
Let's also not forget the players refusing to engage for the last 12 months while saying "We just want to play hockey". That is a PR stunt too (albeit an incredibly transparent one).
Fehr is the master of manipulating media and fans. I am amazed that he is having his lunch handed to him by Bettman thus far.

P.S. sometimes you win the PR battle because you are actually right.

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10-18-2012, 04:20 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Except you dont' know that's what happened for sure yet? Why would you blindly take Bettman's word on this?

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but until I see some details I'm not going to get all huffy about it

I am curious about why we saw a bunch of player related people tweeting that there was a 50-50 split in the players proposals
If its true about the PA refusing to release details on their proposal, then I believe it is true.

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10-18-2012, 04:21 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Except you dont' know that's what happened for sure yet? Why would you blindly take Bettman's word on this?

Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but until I see some details I'm not going to get all huffy about it

I am curious about why we saw a bunch of player related people tweeting that there was a 50-50 split in the players proposals
exactly how i feel

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:22 PM
  #739
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Don't go to bed tonight thinking its the end of the process and that you won't see a 82 games season. Still enough time.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...26548835897346

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:23 PM
  #740
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Both sides are ****ing POSs.

They can't even act like mature human beings and **** down and negotiate? Instead both doing "take it or leave it" proposals. Crock of ****.

**** them both.


RIP NHL

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:24 PM
  #741
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Based on what?

Both sides can't even sit down and negotiate.

When's the next meeting? November?

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10-18-2012, 04:24 PM
  #742
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need to see details of offer. 'we aren't talking the same language' is bettman speak for 'they didn't just accept the offere we made'. its possible that players made major concessions here but the nhl has no interest in any concept besides their own.

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10-18-2012, 04:27 PM
  #743
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Honestly, I would prefer a less than 82 game schedule right now, and I'd prefer it start mid-late November than early November anyway.

I think both those things benefit the Rangers, so that's what I want to see.

The problem is, I prefer an 82 game schedule starting November 2nd as opposed to a 0 game schedule that never starts.

I'm concerned that no deal is reached to save the season, but if we started middle of December, had a 60-something game schedule and saved the Winter classic, I'm fine with that.

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:28 PM
  #744
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cancel it let the players have 57% of nothing

see if they are still worried about percentages next summer

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #745
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Big problem with posturing and BS is that no one knows what to believe.

Bettman draws line in sand.
Players ignore line.
Games get cancelled.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until season is cancelled.

At some point everyone looks back and says "How did we get here?!"

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10-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
Based on what?

Both sides can't even sit down and negotiate.

When's the next meeting? November?
That's how the game is played. Same script in the NFL and NBA lockout. All gloom and doom. Name calling. They got a deal done.

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Kovalev27 View Post
cancel it let the players have 57% of nothing

see if they are still worried about percentages next summer
That would lose any PR ground the league has gained, but I get your sentiment. Maybe sleep on it 1st? Might be a tad bit reactionary.

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10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #748
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That's how the game is played. Same script in the NFL and NBA lockout. All gloom and doom. Name calling. They got a deal done.
Except the NFL/NBA were actually meeting consistently, often mornings to nights.

NHL? 1 hour with a take it or nothing offer.

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:37 PM
  #749
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That's how the game is played. Same script in the NFL and NBA lockout. All gloom and doom. Name calling. They got a deal done.
Yeah except none of thoese leagues had Fehr as there PA head nor a history of losing an entire season

Also NFL players have no alternative to play anywhere but NFL and NBA players were threatened by Chinese/Euro teams locking them in for an entire year (No out clauses in there contract)

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #750
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cancel it let the players have 57% of nothing

see if they are still worried about percentages next summer
Exactly how I feel at this point. Screw them both.

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