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2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Lockout in Effect. Thanks Gary/Donald! PART II

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10-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #301
Mr Jiggyfly
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I still believe it is all posturing.

Seeing how pissed off Bettman is at the podium makes me laugh. I can't help it...

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10-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
But I thought the Players just wanna play hockey? They're finally showing their true colors with this.

I'll be honest, I sort of was already expecting the season to be lost so I am not too torn up about this. I will say though I did get a little caught up in the false optimism the last couple of days. In the end I knew that Fehr will never settle for something fair and losing a season or tarnishing the players image never matter to him. This is a guy who took players on strike right before the playoffs happened in baseball. If you want to look at all time d-bag moves, thats up there.

For all of us fans though, he needs to lose [Fehr] and he needs to lose bad. I don't want him ever poisoning any other sport like he did to baseball and he's trying to do with our sport.
I fear you're correct. He's a poison pill

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10-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
we should get the title of this thread to thank Fehr and the players for losing the season.

The players got an unfairly biased towards them deal the last time around. Yes they will lose money on the next deal. Get over it.

Anyone have a link that details the players offers? As soon as Rossi was tweeting that the Union was going to offer up multiple offers I had a bad feeling.

Fehr has to go. I get some of the concerns that the players have on the last offer from the NHL, but over all it was a pretty damn reasonable basis for meaningful negotiations. Fehr and the players are risking alienating the hard core fans. Our only hope is this is all posturing and a deal gets done in the near term, otherwise kiss the season good bye.
Fehr will not release their offers publicly. I don't think the PA usually does, though.

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10-18-2012, 03:57 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
we should get the title of this thread to thank Fehr and the players for losing the season.

The players got an unfairly biased towards them deal the last time around. Yes they will lose money on the next deal. Get over it.

Anyone have a link that details the players offers? As soon as Rossi was tweeting that the Union was going to offer up multiple offers I had a bad feeling.

Fehr has to go. I get some of the concerns that the players have on the last offer from the NHL, but over all it was a pretty damn reasonable basis for meaningful negotiations. Fehr and the players are risking alienating the hard core fans. Our only hope is this is all posturing and a deal gets done in the near term, otherwise kiss the season good bye.
The three offers from the players today were variations of their proposal over the summer. They didn't even try to negotiate off of the NHL's latest proposal.

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10-18-2012, 04:00 PM
  #305
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http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip786998#clip786998

bettman genuinely looks upset imo. He looks like he was punched in the gut by whatever it was Fehr offered up.

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10-18-2012, 04:06 PM
  #306
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hilarious, as Fehr speaks NHL players on twitter are RT'ing Dubinsky who says this is a lockout, not a strike, and they could be playing under the old CBA.

and from the tweets on Fehr explaining the proposals it sounds like they're all tied to growth and that the players would get to 50/50 "eventually". somehow Fehr is shocked that the NHL only took 15 minutes to reject the proposals (interesting concept since it doesn't seem like the PA pays attention to any of their's)

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10-18-2012, 04:06 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by NeonPuddle View Post
The three offers from the players today were variations of their proposal over the summer. They didn't even try to negotiate off of the NHL's latest proposal.
Source?

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10-18-2012, 04:09 PM
  #308
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I see this as Fehr getting into Bettman's head and stalling for time to get closer to the Oct 25th deadline. There'll be a lot more pressure on Bettman by then, than if they started negotiating today.

If there aren't any reasonable negotiations by Oct 25th. Then **** Fehr and all the ****ing players.

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10-18-2012, 04:12 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by NeonPuddle View Post
The three offers from the players today were variations of their proposal over the summer. They didn't even try to negotiate off of the NHL's latest proposal.
That doesn't appear to be so, especially the third proposal. But don't wait for the facts, keep following Shepherd Gary.

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10-18-2012, 04:12 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I still believe it is all posturing.

Seeing how pissed off Bettman is at the podium makes me laugh. I can't help it...
i'm not laughing. I really was looking forward to this season.

Crosby doesn't have too many "prime years" left in his career. Maybe 3 ?
Not that he's (hopefully) going to fall apart when he hits 30, but most great players this is the prime time.

That and I think it's geniune anger, not posturing by Bettman. At this point in the "negotiations" the Fehr has to at least be talking the same language, which clearly they are not. If the leagues last offer wasn't enough to get them to talk inside the same framework I fear the only thing that will will be a missed season.

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10-18-2012, 04:14 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogel View Post
Source?
“The Players’ Association came back and basically made three alternate proposals on the players’ share, all variations to some degree of the one proposal that they made over the summer and really haven’t deviated from since,” Bettman said. “And none of the three variations of players’ share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50 either at all or for some long period of time.”

I got it from this article http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/rangerrants/

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10-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #312
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogel View Post
Source?
Watch the video of Bettman, he pretty much said it there.

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10-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
That doesn't appear to be so, especially the third proposal. But don't wait for the facts, keep following Shepherd Gary.
Well, then lead us to salvation with your source...

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10-18-2012, 04:17 PM
  #314
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Second rate league. Always will be.

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10-18-2012, 04:23 PM
  #315
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I think the owners' next offer should let the players keep their beloved 57% but require them to cover their own equipment costs, hotels, and meals on the road. In fact, lets ditch the chartered flights too. If the owners can't increase their percentage of revenues, it seems only logical that they should look at cutting costs instead.

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10-18-2012, 04:28 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonPuddle View Post
Is anyone still on the players side?
I thought these tweets were quite telling to that:

ThomasDrance
So the NHLPA takes 2 days to consider NHL offer, tweaks it and makes 3 counters. Bettman rejects them all in an hour.

ThomasDrance
Leaves Toronto with no prospect of negotiations bearing fruit any time soon and has somehow won the PR battle?

ThomasDrance
How stupid are you, hockey fans?


Also:
Proteautype
NHLPA offered owners 50/50 split as long as current contracts were honored. If you say this is unfair, we have a different idea of fairness.

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10-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #317
KaylaJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordax View Post

ThomasDrance
How stupid are you, hockey fans?
Not stupid enough to believe either side?


While both can get to 50/50 (sooner or eventually), it is pretty obvious they have different definitions of that 50/50 and what fair is.

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10-18-2012, 04:33 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Not stupid enough to believe either side?
Trust me, I hate both sides at this point. But it seems like people are quick to jump on the Owners bandwagon after that last "offer", ignoring the obviously PR maneuvering that led up to it

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10-18-2012, 04:35 PM
  #319
KaylaJ
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Originally Posted by Mordax View Post
Trust me, I hate both sides at this point. But it seems like people are quite to jump on the Owners bandwagon after that last "offer", ignoring the obviously PR maneuvering that led up to it
Truthfully, I've seen more people tell both sides where they can go lately

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10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #320
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I have hope that Crosby and Iginla will speak up and force Fehr to get a deal done. Then we trade for Iggy and those two get us a Cup.

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10-18-2012, 04:37 PM
  #321
Mordax
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I have hope that Crosby and Iginla will speak up and force Fehr to get a deal done. Then we trade for Iggy and those two get us a Cup.
That's quite the fantasy world you got going there!

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10-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #322
KaylaJ
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I have hope that Crosby and Iginla will speak up and force Fehr to get a deal done. Then we trade for Iggy and those two get us a Cup.
Sid is there:

Crosby: "Today wasn't a step in the right direction."

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10-18-2012, 04:44 PM
  #323
Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 View Post
I see this as Fehr getting into Bettman's head and stalling for time to get closer to the Oct 25th deadline. There'll be a lot more pressure on Bettman by then, than if they started negotiating today.

If there aren't any reasonable negotiations by Oct 25th. Then **** Fehr and all the ****ing players.
Really, Bettman only needs to wait it out until then, the pressure is still on the NHLPA and the players. Full season or bust I'd say. Lock them out for as long as it takes. The players still lose 100% of their salary for time off.


If it were me, and the NHLPA & players came back crawling giving everything the league is asking for with half a season left, I'd agree but still lock them out for the remainder of the season and then tell them see you next year.

Pretty much stupidity not trying to negotiate within the terms given this time by the league. It covered everything they asked for with some tweaking.

This is for the players and Mr. Fehr.

UP....YOURS....!




I'm really not gonna support anything that gives them another dime. I'm for the crest on the front of the jersey, they might as well not even put names on the back because, I don't give a crap. Next jersey will be nameless.

That's it, final, done, kaput!

First game back should be with signs reading "to players" and then the middle finger underneath. Anyone going after autos or meet and greets should be ashamed of themselves for padding their greedy pockets.

No seriously "**** you", players.

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Old
10-18-2012, 05:08 PM
  #324
KaylaJ
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From Russo, who's the beat writer in MN:

#NHL source: Owners were handed TWO proposals from #NHLPA; third (alleged 50/50) proposal was decribed, & not as 50/50 & more complicated

#NHL source: Both first 2 #NHLPA proposals paid out $1.9 billion in '12-13 (more than '11-12) and got to 50-50 in Year 5

Essentially, the #NHL source claims the league was never handed any 3rd proposal that was 50/50 AND honoring contracts by Fehr #nhlpa

However Cotsonika:

NHL says PA's third proposal -- honor existing contracts, then 50-50 -- excludes $650 million over five-year term.

And Elliotte Friedman:

Am personally curious about NHLPA proposal 3, the 50/50 plus contracts being protected. Dispute appears to be...

that NHL feels salary money would be "hidden" outside the system. After both sides calm down and stop breathing fire, we'll see if this...

Idea would have any traction. For the first time, though, I see a deal. We won't have 82 games, but something decent.
...

It's like a crappy game of telephone where I expect one side to say "purple monkey dishwasher" next.


Last edited by KaylaJ: 10-18-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old
10-18-2012, 05:27 PM
  #325
SHOOTANDSCORE
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Originally Posted by Mordax View Post
Trust me, I hate both sides at this point. But it seems like people are quick to jump on the Owners bandwagon after that last "offer", ignoring the obviously PR maneuvering that led up to it
I can't speak for others but personally...

No doubt both sides are responsible for the situation that we are in. The thing is, pr or not, many fans have looked at the owners offer and judged it as a very fair offer to negotiate from.

Now, seeing Fehr and many players speaking out about how insulting the offer is is showing that there may be extreme expectations being perpetuated within the nhlpa. Their comments also corroborate what GB said about their counterproposals.

It had been obvious to most in the lead up to this Summer that the players were going to have to make some concessions to keep the league viable. It isn't all that unreasonable for the players popularity to plummet after they take a hardline that continues to put the season in jeopardy.

ETA: I think we'll find out in the next few days exactly how willing the players are to negotiate.


Last edited by SHOOTANDSCORE: 10-18-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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