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D Ryan Murphy - Kitchener Rangers, OHL (2011, 12th overall, Carolina)

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Old
10-18-2012, 11:59 AM
  #726
smitty10
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I've always thought he was a puck hog more than an elite distributor. He's the type of player that I think won't ever have an impact in the NHL. Watch a guy like Ryan Ellis and the difference between the two is extremely visible. Ellis cycles the puck and waits for an opportunity to open before making a pass or taking a shot to create a scoring chance. Murphy on the other hand skates around the perimeter of the zone missing plenty of opportunities and 80% of the time has the puck stripped from him or gives it away with a horrible pass. He doesn't use his teammates effectively nor does he have the defensive play to succeed at a higher level.

I'm willing to bet money that this kid will not see more than 3 full NHL seasons in his career. Given where he was selected in the draft, I think that Carolina will feel obligated to give him a chance in the NHL regardless of his play in the AHL, but he will NEVER be an impact NHLer. He's far too selfish without the skill or defensive play to back it up.

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10-18-2012, 12:36 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
I've always thought he was a puck hog more than an elite distributor. He's the type of player that I think won't ever have an impact in the NHL. Watch a guy like Ryan Ellis and the difference between the two is extremely visible. Ellis cycles the puck and waits for an opportunity to open before making a pass or taking a shot to create a scoring chance. Murphy on the other hand skates around the perimeter of the zone missing plenty of opportunities and 80% of the time has the puck stripped from him or gives it away with a horrible pass. He doesn't use his teammates effectively nor does he have the defensive play to succeed at a higher level.

I'm willing to bet money that this kid will not see more than 3 full NHL seasons in his career. Given where he was selected in the draft, I think that Carolina will feel obligated to give him a chance in the NHL regardless of his play in the AHL, but he will NEVER be an impact NHLer. He's far too selfish without the skill or defensive play to back it up.
He is a bit of a puck hog, but I think he's talented enough to play that way. He's no Karlsson, Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Boyle, Keith, etc., not super smart and unselfish like many of the top offensive dmen have been recently, but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. He reminds me a lot of Mike Green, a guy who is very aggressive offensively, who takes a lot of risks, but who gets away with it because he's so skilled.

I personally think he'll make the WJC team, and would make it with or without the Spott connection. Canada has failed to win gold for 3 seasons straight, and I think a big part of our short comings has been a lack of dynamic offensive talent. We often leave a tonne of skill at home in favour of fielding a grinding team, but with our recent lack of success with this style, it could be time for a shake up. I think we'll see a shift back to a more offensive team this year, and Murphy should be a big part of that.

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10-18-2012, 12:46 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He got negative comments from every game. Go to any thread discussing it in a forum outside the Carolina board.

He was terrible in his own end. He had other players save him from mistakes. Just because (according to you) only one of his turnovers led to a goal doesn't make all his other countless turnovers alright. And yes, Hamilton did get some hate from that tournament too. But at least his was more from disappointment and unrealized expectations, and not blatant, terrible, selfish plays that put our entire team at risk.

I said these same things throughout the entire series and any time it came up afterwards. If you don't believe me, you can go looking through my posts for any post in a thread about this series. The overwhelming consensus was NOT how well Murphy played. In fact it was quite the opposite. Hell, you have people in this very thread telling you that you are flat-out wrong. Go look in any thread not in the Carolina board.

The only people who were praising Murphy were the ones that didn't watch the series, because "Oooh, 5 points, must be good!".

He was not the offensive catalyst (if any one player was, it was Rielly), and did not create the most scoring chances. He was a puck hog, and destroyed most of Canada's chances he was in on with stupid plays.

I actually liked Murphy before that series. But he almost cost us that series. And not from being overwhelmed, which I could understand. But from stupid, selfish plays.
To suggest Murphy was the same in the whole series is insane. His game 3 was light years ahead of his game 2. And to claim that both were bad shows a lingering bias from that first game.

I am completely split of Murphy. I see the flaws and get just as frustrated as anyone at times, but to suggest he was awful in game 3 is ludicrous. And to harken to HFBoard comments is also weak. There is a legion of haters on here who don't like any showy player that rags the puck and they're incapable of seeing the good from that point on. I saw plenty of positive Murphy comments here and everywhere else.

In fact, I watched game three with a die-hard Leaf/Rielly fan who acknowledged Murphy was hands-down better in that game.

So I guess it's wide open to interpretation. But I must have been watching something different than you.

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10-18-2012, 01:44 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
To suggest Murphy was the same in the whole series is insane. His game 3 was light years ahead of his game 2. And to claim that both were bad shows a lingering bias from that first game.

I am completely split of Murphy. I see the flaws and get just as frustrated as anyone at times, but to suggest he was awful in game 3 is ludicrous. And to harken to HFBoard comments is also weak. There is a legion of haters on here who don't like any showy player that rags the puck and they're incapable of seeing the good from that point on. I saw plenty of positive Murphy comments here and everywhere else.

In fact, I watched game three with a die-hard Leaf/Rielly fan who acknowledged Murphy was hands-down better in that game.

So I guess it's wide open to interpretation. But I must have been watching something different than you.
He wasn't exactly the same in every game. He had his ups and downs like everybody else. But he was consistently hurtful to our team.

I had no lingering bias after the first game. I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt (just a bad game) after the first game.

I think HFboards comments are a stupid thing to point to as well. The other guy brought it up, and I was merely pointing out how incredibly wrong that was.

I guess it is open to interpretation, and which type of player you like. He has offensive skill, so maybe people like you focused on that. Problem is, he has terrible execution and defensive awareness.

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10-18-2012, 01:52 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
He got negative comments from every game. Go to any thread discussing it in a forum outside the Carolina board.

He was terrible in his own end. He had other players save him from mistakes. Just because (according to you) only one of his turnovers led to a goal doesn't make all his other countless turnovers alright. And yes, Hamilton did get some hate from that tournament too. But at least his was more from disappointment and unrealized expectations, and not blatant, terrible, selfish plays that put our entire team at risk.

I said these same things throughout the entire series and any time it came up afterwards. If you don't believe me, you can go looking through my posts for any post in a thread about this series. The overwhelming consensus was NOT how well Murphy played. In fact it was quite the opposite. Hell, you have people in this very thread telling you that you are flat-out wrong. Go look in any thread not in the Carolina board.

The only people who were praising Murphy were the ones that didn't watch the series, because "Oooh, 5 points, must be good!".

He was not the offensive catalyst (if any one player was, it was Rielly), and did not create the most scoring chances. He was a puck hog, and destroyed most of Canada's chances he was in on with stupid plays.

I actually liked Murphy before that series. But he almost cost us that series. And not from being overwhelmed, which I could understand. But from stupid, selfish plays.
Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it so. Go find me threads of people saying those things after the first game, on any board, you won't find them. I'm not a Carolina fan, why would I be on the Carolina board thus not seeing "Everyone saying he was horrible"? And as I already said, it's not just these boards, it's the media as well. The response was universal, Murphy played great.

I was posting in the threads, I know that me and a handful of others were remarking "Where's the Murphy haters now?". And no, just because you're saying I'm wrong doesn't mean I am. Most of the people in this thread are either not talking the Russia series, or they're responding to you and saying you're crazy.

Saying "I used to like so and so before" isn't an arguement. Anyone can say that to try and make their arguement better. "I really hate Crosby and think that because of this but I used to like him before that so therefore my opinion is more valid". That's a ridiculous premise and conclusion.

You're saying completely incorrent things and when I called you out for it you're continuing to make more. Go figure. First by saying Murphy did things he did not, then by calling me a Carolina fan when I'm clearly not

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10-18-2012, 02:05 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it so. Go find me threads of people saying those things after the first game, on any board, you won't find them. I'm not a Carolina fan, why would I be on the Carolina board thus not seeing "Everyone saying he was horrible"? And as I already said, it's not just these boards, it's the media as well. The response was universal, Murphy played great.

I was posting in the threads, I know that me and a handful of others were remarking "Where's the Murphy haters now?". And no, just because you're saying I'm wrong doesn't mean I am. Most of the people in this thread are either not talking the Russia series, or they're responding to you and saying you're crazy.

Saying "I used to like so and so before" isn't an arguement. Anyone can say that to try and make their arguement better. "I really hate Crosby and think that because of this but I used to like him before that so therefore my opinion is more valid". That's a ridiculous premise and conclusion.

You're saying completely incorrent things and when I called you out for it you're continuing to make more. Go figure. First by saying Murphy did things he did not, then by calling me a Carolina fan when I'm clearly not
I could only assume that somebody who was defending Murphy's play so much in that series had to be a Carolina fan. Those are really the only people I've ever seen defending his play in that series.

I could say the same to you. Just because you keep repeating it, doesn't make it true. I've seen no evidence or proof from you. The response to Murphy was obviously not universal, since we were obviously listening to entirely different media and people on these boards.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Murphy will show what he is made of. If the Canada-Russia series is any indication, then it doesn't look like much. Maybe it was just a bad tournament for him, but the comments about him from other people, even in this very thread, don't give me much hope.

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10-18-2012, 02:41 PM
  #732
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While Murphy may not have played well in that series, he was the spark that helped Canada win the series. His offense and the way he moved the puck had that " wow " factor as far as I am concerned. His defense will come and he will be in the league for more than 3 years (lol).

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:19 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Problem is, he has terrible execution and defensive awareness.
The thing is this is not an accurate statement to characterize his game. Most of the time, his offensive execution is second to none. He has had stretches in his career of 5-10 games here and there where it has been poor, but when on, he is matched by no one.

I'll grant you his defensive game needs work, but I don't think it's as much about awareness, which refers more to positioning and reaction time, but more that he's soft on the body and in front of the net and he's a risk taker with the puck in his end leading to some turnovers. If coaches get that out of him, his skating alone can make him an effective enough defener. He has a long way to go to build a complete game, but it doesn't sound like you have seen him at the top of his game (witness playoff series vs. Windsor in '10 and London in '11 as key examples). Pure dominance. No asterisks.

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10-18-2012, 03:25 PM
  #734
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I don't know what people keep going on and on about the Canada- Russia series for.

1 game I would have given Subban++ for this kid. The next game I wouldn't deal Kaberle for him+ a 1st.

You can't make a prediction on that series...

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10-18-2012, 03:39 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
The thing is this is not an accurate statement to characterize his game. Most of the time, his offensive execution is second to none. He has had stretches in his career of 5-10 games here and there where it has been poor, but when on, he is matched by no one.

I'll grant you his defensive game needs work, but I don't think it's as much about awareness, which refers more to positioning and reaction time, but more that he's soft on the body and in front of the net and he's a risk taker with the puck in his end leading to some turnovers. If coaches get that out of him, his skating alone can make him an effective enough defener. He has a long way to go to build a complete game, but it doesn't sound like you have seen him at the top of his game (witness playoff series vs. Windsor in '10 and London in '11 as key examples). Pure dominance. No asterisks.
Maybe I have seen him mostly at bad times then. I realize he has the offensive skill. I just haven't seen anything else out of him, or even proper utilization of that offensive skill on many occasions.

Personally, I actually think defensive ability is somewhat overrated around here, but games I have seen from Murphy have been the closest I have come in a long time to changing my opinion on that.

I hope he turns out well, but if he is having these kind of problems with consistency while still in Junior, and problems adapting to high-pressure scenarios like the Canada-Russia series, then one has to question how well his skills will translate to the NHL.

Maybe it will all turn out fine. But it is a legitimate concern at this time.

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10-18-2012, 07:02 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I could only assume that somebody who was defending Murphy's play so much in that series had to be a Carolina fan. Those are really the only people I've ever seen defending his play in that series.

I could say the same to you. Just because you keep repeating it, doesn't make it true. I've seen no evidence or proof from you. The response to Murphy was obviously not universal, since we were obviously listening to entirely different media and people on these boards.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Murphy will show what he is made of. If the Canada-Russia series is any indication, then it doesn't look like much. Maybe it was just a bad tournament for him, but the comments about him from other people, even in this very thread, don't give me much hope.
I've given you plenty, you just chose to ignore it and stay on these ridiculous notions of "everyone seeing this but Carolina fans". It's a rather ridiculous notion when a simple google search gave me the tail end pages of the GDT from these boards, with overwhelmingly positive support, with a few outliers, mostly reffering his first game.

---

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Originally Posted by scoutman1 View Post
yes...I thought he played ok, not a huge stand out in the game but made some good offensive plays.

Murphy IMO is amazing, with the puck he is really a treat to watch, his skating, puck handling ability and offensive play are very rare to find...I think Carolina has a gem with him.
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
Agreed Murphy looked like the real deal in games 3 and 4. He is going to make a big time NHL impact, he is too good with the puck and wayyyy too good of a skater not to. He has the puck on his stick so much it's incredible and almost always does a lot more than I expected with it

Murray also was impressive to see live. I can see some people think the Oilers should have taken him
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
I loved watching Ouellet, his game is very Gunnarsson-like, won't get recognized for his solid and steady effort but he does his job very well, going to be a very solid top 4 d-man. Same goes for Harrington.

Also don't get the Murphy hate,he was IMHO the best player from both side in game 3 and played very well this game. There is not a player or a d-men on the roster that could dominate the game offensively like him.

Dynamic!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
I think the Dougie Hamilton hates stems from him not having the most offensive tournament. Defenders who aren't taking a lot of shots and making moves in the offensive zone tend to not get noticed thus people assuming they played poorly.

Myself, I tend to go by the rule that if I haven't noticed a defender than he probably hasn't made many mistakes is probably having at least an average game.

Offensively, Murphy and Reilley (sp?) seemed to be the class of the Canadian squads blueline. Murphy impressed me everytime he had the puck last night.
---

So what about that "everyone except Carolina fans saw how horrible he was?" I'm pretty sure I didn't list any Carolina fans, and there was plenty more posts in support of him.

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10-18-2012, 07:53 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I've given you plenty, you just chose to ignore it and stay on these ridiculous notions of "everyone seeing this but Carolina fans". It's a rather ridiculous notion when a simple google search gave me the tail end pages of the GDT from these boards, with overwhelmingly positive support, with a few outliers, mostly reffering his first game.
A few outliers? Might want to read through those threads again.

Hell, even one of your 4 (yes, count them, 4!) posts referenced how everybody thought Murphy was terrible.

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10-18-2012, 08:07 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
A few outliers? Might want to read through those threads again.

Hell, even one of your 4 (yes, count them, 4!) posts referenced how everybody thought Murphy was terrible.
I guess everybody in your language means minority. Not that I was expecting a real response from you, you're whole argument has been based on fallacies and incorrect statements, why would that change when you're staring the facts in the face?

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10-18-2012, 08:38 PM
  #739
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I guess everybody in your language means minority. Not that I was expecting a real response from you, you're whole argument has been based on fallacies and incorrect statements, why would that change when you're staring the facts in the face?
I am staring facts in the face. I am staring your facts in the face. And they are saying the complete opposite of what you are trying to say.

As I said before, you can live in your crazy delusional world all you want. I enjoy logical and factual discussions. Unfortunately, I don't get that with you, so I have no desire to continue this. We will just have to see in due time who is right. Well, scratch that, it's fact that I'm right. We will just have to see in due time what outcome that results in.

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10-18-2012, 09:41 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I am staring facts in the face. I am staring your facts in the face. And they are saying the complete opposite of what you are trying to say.

As I said before, you can live in your crazy delusional world all you want. I enjoy logical and factual discussions. Unfortunately, I don't get that with you, so I have no desire to continue this. We will just have to see in due time who is right. Well, scratch that, it's fact that I'm right. We will just have to see in due time what outcome that results in.
You can call a chicken a duck as much as you want but deep down in your heart, you know it's a chicken, despite what ever logic you wish to tell yourself that the chicken is a duck.

Facts aren't, "You just gave me sources that prove me wrong but I'm going to say they prove me right anyway and see where that gets me". Or maybe they are to you. You haven't posted one fact, you've just ranted on about how terrible he was and about how everyone agree's with you except Carolina fans (Than called me a Carolina fan) and when I gave you posts that are clearly not from Carolina fan's you pretend they don't exist, you pretended like all those posts (Which are the majority on that topic in that thread) don't exist. There's stubborness then there's the dogmatic answers you're giving.

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10-18-2012, 10:01 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
You can call a chicken a duck as much as you want but deep down in your heart, you know it's a chicken, despite what ever logic you wish to tell yourself that the chicken is a duck.

Facts aren't, "You just gave me sources that prove me wrong but I'm going to say they prove me right anyway and see where that gets me". Or maybe they are to you. You haven't posted one fact, you've just ranted on about how terrible he was and about how everyone agree's with you except Carolina fans (Than called me a Carolina fan) and when I gave you posts that are clearly not from Carolina fan's you pretend they don't exist, you pretended like all those posts (Which are the majority on that topic in that thread) don't exist. There's stubborness then there's the dogmatic answers you're giving.
I have no idea what you are talking about with chicken and ducks, and run-on sentences. Facts are pretty hard to come by for a tournament where they barely keep track of stats, otherwise I would be posting more. I will just once again direct you to the threads you yourself posted, or suggest you go find a stream of the tournament you can re-watch.

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10-18-2012, 10:06 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
I have no idea what you are talking about with chicken and ducks, and run-on sentences. Facts are pretty hard to come by for a tournament where they barely keep track of stats, otherwise I would be posting more. I will just once again direct you to the threads you yourself posted, or suggest you go find a stream of the tournament you can re-watch.
This "argument" of telling me to go look at the thread I posted with proof that you weren't telling the truth when you said "everyone thinks he was horrible except Carolina fans like you" (A double wrong) isn't going to convince anyone.

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10-18-2012, 10:32 PM
  #743
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Maybe you two should take this little argument to private messages. Good lord.

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10-19-2012, 08:13 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Dempsey View Post
Maybe you two should take this little argument to private messages. Good lord.
And on the way, grab a dictionary and look up "opinion" and "fact". They're not the same.

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10-19-2012, 08:20 AM
  #745
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Word is the kid has an extremely inflated ego.
this is nonsense and im nutreaul to Murphy. The kid who was ranked #5 overal yet fell to #10? The kid who had a terrible concussion that has set him back in his development? Seems like a foolish statement if you ask me.

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10-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #746
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this is nonsense and im nutreaul to Murphy. The kid who was ranked #5 overal yet fell to #10? The kid who had a terrible concussion that has set him back in his development? Seems like a foolish statement if you ask me.
What does any of what you just said have to do with him, potentially, having a giant ego? Btw, I'm "nutreaul" on Murphy too.

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10-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #747
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What does any of what you just said have to do with him, potentially, having a giant ego? Btw, I'm "nutreaul" on Murphy too.
what does he mean by "nutreaul"? is it supposed to be "natural"?

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10-19-2012, 11:33 AM
  #748
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what does he mean by "nutreaul"? is it supposed to be "natural"?
I would assume neutral.

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10-19-2012, 11:39 AM
  #749
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What does any of what you just said have to do with him, potentially, having a giant ego? Btw, I'm "nutreaul" on Murphy too.
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
what does he mean by "nutreaul"? is it supposed to be "natural"?


For clarity's sake, I live in the small town Murphy grew up in. That's why I had heard, through the grapevine, that he's an egotist. Kids with exceptional talents in sports are more than likely to have a bit of an ego though so take it for what it's worth. Thought I'd share anyway.

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10-19-2012, 12:03 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
what does he mean by "nutreaul"? is it supposed to be "natural"?
obviously it was a harmless typo. he means natural clearly.

critcism of the type is even more useless than it is plain jerky.

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