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Berglund to the Maple Leafs

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:09 PM
  #26
ManyIdeas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Haha, holy overreaction batman. What's wrong with a skilled 3rd line center? The kid's only 22 anyways. Hockey fans have the worst patience out of all the major teams sports.
Nothing is wrong with a skilled 3rd line center. Something would be wrong with a glaring hole in our second line C position.

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:25 PM
  #27
capitalsrock
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Stl:

Berglund
Rattie

Tor:

Bozak
Gunnarsson

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:36 PM
  #28
BonMorrison
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Stl:

Berglund
Rattie

Tor:

Bozak
Gunnarsson
Put up the flame shield, sir.

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:37 PM
  #29
Alklha
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Stl:

Berglund
Rattie

Tor:

Bozak
Gunnarsson
Not a chance. We are happy with our offense, and if we aren't getting a top pairing LHD then we're not interested. Cole will get his chance this season to play with Pietrangelo and see if he can be that player for us.

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:20 PM
  #30
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Haha, holy overreaction batman. What's wrong with a skilled 3rd line center? The kid's only 22 anyways. Hockey fans have the worst patience out of all the major teams sports.
Nothing, but we don't need that and we definitely won't move Berglund unless we get someone to immediately fill his role.

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Stl:

Berglund
Rattie

Tor:

Bozak
Gunnarsson
Uh no...

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Nothing, but we don't need that and we definitely won't move Berglund unless we get someone to immediately fill his role.
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.

Curious. Is St.Louis looking for a legitimate top pairing defenseman, or more of a complimentary/reliable guy for Pietrangelo? (Ex. Suter or Orpik)

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:48 PM
  #33
Alklha
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.

Curious. Is St.Louis looking for a legitimate top pairing defenseman, or more of a complimentary/reliable guy for Pietrangelo? (Ex. Suter or Orpik)
Complimentary/reliable is probably more along the lines, but he needs to be able to step up and be the leader of the D if Pietrangelo was out for a few games. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that Cole has earned a chance to make the spot his own. We are a strong enough defensive unit as a team to allow him to make the adjustments, and if it isn't working we can make a move mid-season.

When it comes to forwards, we have little incentive to move anyone. Financially we probably can't afford the star player some think we need, and any other moves would be lateral and only really going to happen mid-season when there is a better idea of what is going on. See Chris Stewart probably.

As for Colborne, I haven't seen anything of him recently, but every time I read about him it is still critical of his defense and him not making the adjustments. Hopefully he works it out, but if that is the case, he starts to creep into the boom or bust category.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.
The problem with that is Colburne has done nothing at the NHL and projects or as you put it has roughly the same potential to be as good as Berglund currently is.

There is a lot of risk for something that COULD turn out to be just what we currently have. There is no upside for the Blues.

Not a fan of Gunnarson to begin with and he doesn't really do anything for the current Blues team.

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Old
10-18-2012, 06:03 PM
  #35
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Its hard, we don't match up well with St.Louis. Although you guys may enjoy Gunnarsson, he plays top pairing minutes with Phaneuf and covers up for him nicely...he's not a legit top pairing guy though. He would fit your salary structure. Although Berglund may be a lot to ask for. I know we would love Stewert if something could be worked out there.

Also Colborne isnt a bust...he's 22 years old. You have a guy like Brandan Smith who's 23 and hasn't cracked Detroit yet but he's not a bust. Colborne tore up the AHL early on last year but had 2 torn ligaments in his wrist that hampered him the rest of the season but he played through it, showing grit a lot of people didnt think he had.

Anyways to stay on topic, we probably don't have what you're looking for, for Berglund.

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Old
10-19-2012, 03:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.

Curious. Is St.Louis looking for a legitimate top pairing defenseman, or more of a complimentary/reliable guy for Pietrangelo? (Ex. Suter or Orpik)
An Orpik type player would be what we are looking for, I think the Blues make a trade for this type of player if Cole does not show he able to handle the a lot of the minutes that Petro plays.

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Old
10-19-2012, 05:35 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.
Why exactly would Colborne make an excellent 3rd line C? He's not the best defensively in general, definitely wouldnt excel in a defence first role.

Some people seem to think if a player is a borderline 2nd line player, that means theyd be a great 3rd line player. Not always the case, as the 2nd line is primarily a scoring line while the 3rd line is primarily a checking/shut-down line that can provide some offensive depth.

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Old
10-19-2012, 05:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
And a failing prospect at that. He's pretty much a bust at this point for a top 6 role.
I got a good laugh from this.

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Old
10-19-2012, 09:05 AM
  #39
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
I got a good laugh from this.
He isn't the greatest defensively, and his offense has not developed, but just keep telling yourself he's gonna be a star.

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Old
10-19-2012, 10:33 AM
  #40
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I don't agree with the most fellow Blues fans on Gunnar. I'd be extasic if we could have him, he'd look great next to Pie (and if not great he'll be atleast a hugh upgrade for Cola and a much lesser risk than Cole) and once we can get a real #2 LHD he'd be a superb tandem with Shatty

I also want Steener staying on the wing but if you look at how he does at center right now in Sweden he'll be just fine wherever he plays but that doesn't mean that I'd want to downgrade Bergy with Colborne.
We're on Win now mode and Colborne is too much of a project as I'd start im on one of our 3 scoring lines.

Long story short: we can't trade away Berglund at the moment if its not for an upgrade at C IMO

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Old
10-19-2012, 12:46 PM
  #41
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I don't think the Leafs and Blues are good trading partners at all. Berglund isn't really that much of an upgrade over Bozak and I don't think he's an upgrade over Grabovski at #2. If the Leafs wanted him as a #3C, despite the fact that they have a lot of guys who can be slotted in at that spot, it would cost much more than it would be worth. Furthermore, anything that we have that would make the deal worth it for the Blues the Leafs would not be willing to give up.

And I think people are really underrating how valuable Gunnarsson is to the Leafs, he's much much more valuable in Toronto than he is to the Blues. Gunnarsson may not be a top pairing defensemen, but that's where he played last year and he actually did a good job playing with Phaneuf. It makes no sense to trade a guy like that and one of our best forward prospects (Colborne) for a marginal upgrade at center.

This trade just does not make sense at all for either team.

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10-19-2012, 01:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I don't think the Leafs and Blues are good trading partners at all. Berglund isn't really that much of an upgrade over Bozak and I don't think he's an upgrade over Grabovski at #2.
Well, he is only freshly 24. He had a 52 point season two years ago as a 22 year old, this while playing on a team with no PPG players or anything to really help "inflate" his stats.

I think Berglunds ceiling is fairly questionable (compared to the high hopes from a few years ago), but a few things I'd give him over Bozak:
- Berglund has a higher career high, despite not getting to play with as offensively gifted players like Kessel/Lupul, and despite not playing in an offence-first system like Toronto (aka Bozak should have relatively "inflated" stats compared to Berglund, and Berglund still has the better career high).
- Berglund is 2 years younger
- Has a good two-way game
- Berglund has size

So I would definitely say Berglund is an upgrade over Bozak already, with the potential to be the best out of Berglund/Bozak/Grabovski. If he can get himself into the ~55-65 point region while maintaining solid two-way play with size? That's a decent #2 C.

Grabovski for example didn't break the 50 point mark until his 3rd season as a 27 year old. That's while playing in an offence first system.

If St. Louis offered us Berglund straight up for Grabo, I would consider it. I'd want to see a bit more of his games myself instead of going off of scouting reports / stats. But he definitely has a lot of great tools (size, skill, defensive play, younger).

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Old
10-19-2012, 02:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Well, he is only freshly 24. He had a 52 point season two years ago as a 22 year old, this while playing on a team with no PPG players or anything to really help "inflate" his stats.

I think Berglunds ceiling is fairly questionable (compared to the high hopes from a few years ago), but a few things I'd give him over Bozak:
- Berglund has a higher career high, despite not getting to play with as offensively gifted players like Kessel/Lupul, and despite not playing in an offence-first system like Toronto (aka Bozak should have relatively "inflated" stats compared to Berglund, and Berglund still has the better career high).
- Berglund is 2 years younger
- Has a good two-way game
- Berglund has size

So I would definitely say Berglund is an upgrade over Bozak already, with the potential to be the best out of Berglund/Bozak/Grabovski. If he can get himself into the ~55-65 point region while maintaining solid two-way play with size? That's a decent #2 C.

Grabovski for example didn't break the 50 point mark until his 3rd season as a 27 year old. That's while playing in an offence first system.

If St. Louis offered us Berglund straight up for Grabo, I would consider it. I'd want to see a bit more of his games myself instead of going off of scouting reports / stats. But he definitely has a lot of great tools (size, skill, defensive play, younger).
I agree he's the better player but not by enough to warrant the Leafs trading for him right now. Even as a 10 point upgrade over Bozak, I don't see it being worth it to give up one of our top prospects and the guy that looked good on a top pairing last year. I think if the Leafs are going to trade for a top 6 center it will be a more significant upgrade. The Blues are in a position where they probably wouldn't want to be giving up the best player in this trade anyways. I don't think it makes sense for either team.

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Old
10-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #44
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If I was the Blues I wouldn't trade Berglund for near anything.

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10-19-2012, 02:53 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Fair enough. Personally I see Bergy and Colborne having roughly the same potential anyway. Big bodied, decent 2nd line center, excellent 3rd line center.

Curious. Is St.Louis looking for a legitimate top pairing defenseman, or more of a complimentary/reliable guy for Pietrangelo? (Ex. Suter or Orpik)
Wow! In what world are Berglund and Colbourne even comparable.
As a Canuck's fan who gets to see a lot of Berglund I'd be really stoked to get him.
He brings a skillset that would be in high demand if he ever hit the market.

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Old
10-19-2012, 02:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He isn't the greatest defensively, and his offense has not developed, but just keep telling yourself he's gonna be a star.
How much have you even watched him in the pro can you tell me? Or are you going off by the very few posters who says Colborne will be our savior and first line center. A 22 year old prospect isn't a bust if he was a lot of players that have started to come around at the age of 24 would have been big time busts. You being a blues fan should know better as your captain hit his strides around the age of 22 and then 23 or become a beauty.

As far as the proposal OP has given us. I can't see anything that will really please the blues fan. If were to trade with them it would be something around Grabovski I reckon.

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10-19-2012, 04:17 PM
  #47
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How much have you even watched him in the pro can you tell me? Or are you going off by the very few posters who says Colborne will be our savior and first line center. A 22 year old prospect isn't a bust if he was a lot of players that have started to come around at the age of 24 would have been big time busts. You being a blues fan should know better as your captain hit his strides around the age of 22 and then 23 or become a beauty.

As far as the proposal OP has given us. I can't see anything that will really please the blues fan. If were to trade with them it would be something around Grabovski I reckon.
I didn't say he was a complete bust, just probably for a top 6 role. I have watched him more than just a few times as I made a trade for him in NHL 12 and wanted to see how he played in real life. I just don't see him being a top 6 center. Maybe he can become a 3rd line center, but that would make this trade pointless for us if that is what he becomes.

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Old
10-19-2012, 04:22 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I agree he's the better player but not by enough to warrant the Leafs trading for him right now. Even as a 10 point upgrade over Bozak, I don't see it being worth it to give up one of our top prospects and the guy that looked good on a top pairing last year. I think if the Leafs are going to trade for a top 6 center it will be a more significant upgrade. The Blues are in a position where they probably wouldn't want to be giving up the best player in this trade anyways. I don't think it makes sense for either team.
Yea, I dont think theres a good trade to be had between the teams, not unless Halak is deemed expendable halfway through the season or something. I was just pointing out that I do think Berglund is a distinct upgrade over Bozak, and likely over Grabo. But like you said, bad trading partners. Both looking for upgrades at the moment.

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Old
10-19-2012, 06:32 PM
  #49
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Would something centered around Gardiner or Gunnarsson++ do the trick? I know alot of Leaf fans will hate that but it's just an opening thought, lol. I'm sure Leafs consensus is that if we're trading Gardiner he can fetch a more proven center.
Toronto wouldn't trade Jake Gardiner for Rick Nash, so that's why he is a non starter. As for Carl Gunnarsson I can't see them trading him because he plays well with Phaneuf.

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Old
10-20-2012, 05:08 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Actually, Hitch hinted that the lines would look more like this...

D'agostini/Stewart Backes Oshie
Perron Berglund D'agostini/Stewart
McDonald Steen Tarasenko
Sobotka Nichol Langenbrunner
Extra: Porter, Reaves, and Schwartz
Not that I'm any expert on the Blues, but I am an admirer. If this is accurate, that is the best 3rd line in the league. But if it was me, I would do it like this:

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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Perron - Backes - Oshie
McDonald - Berglund - Tarasenko
Schwartz/D'Agostini - Steen - Stewart
Sobotka - Nichol - Langenbrunner
I understand the logic of running three lines that can score, but in the later scenario the third line can still score, and your top two lines are simply more talented with McDonald and Tarasenko rather than D'Agostini and Stewart. The top two lines in the later projection are monstrous, whereas all three lines in the former projection would bother me as a Canucks fan, but not give me the night terrors like they might.

EDIT: I realize my post does nothing to forward the discussion about trading Berglund for a Leaf. That is because St. Louis should not trade Berglund. As nice as it would be for them to have Gardiner, they're pretty set on D, especially considering that if Gardiner is as good as the Leafs hope he will be, it would be difficult for STL to pay for him after Shatty and Pietrangelo get their raises. Plus its hard to find big, young centres with upside.

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