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Dominik Hasek retires, what is the legacy?

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Old
10-19-2012, 05:04 PM
  #276
seventieslord
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I wouldn't call 6'1", 198 small or smallish for a defenseman drafted in 1984.

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10-19-2012, 05:22 PM
  #277
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Smallish

Sure is smallish if playing LD against Cam Neely on RW in a dump and chase, giving away 20 lbs to 6'1" Neely 218 lbs every shift and the only break is that the other Bruins RWs may be only 5-10 lbs heavier and less talented. Ads up over a seven game series.

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10-19-2012, 05:41 PM
  #278
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
Wrong.

Hasek had posted better numbers than Belfour in both of his seasons in Chicago and Fuhr in the one season he backed him up in Buffalo. The reason he wasn't a starter was for reasons other than his play.
Huh? Hasek only played 5 games that first season and in any case Belfour's save percentage was practically identical to Hasek both seasons.

1990-91

Belfour .910
Hasek .914


1991-92

Belfour .894
Hasek .893

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10-19-2012, 07:23 PM
  #279
DickSmehlik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Huh? Hasek only played 5 games that first season and in any case Belfour's save percentage was practically identical to Hasek both seasons.

1990-91

Belfour .910
Hasek .914


1991-92

Belfour .894
Hasek .893
You should have posted the other stats while you were at it.

1990-91

Hasek 3-0-1, 2.46GAA

1991-92

Hasek 10-4-1, 2.60 GAA

Both superior to Belfour. To imply he wasn't playing good enough to take the starting job is simply wrong.

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10-19-2012, 07:35 PM
  #280
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
You should have posted the other stats while you were at it.

1990-91

Hasek 3-0-1, 2.46GAA

1991-92

Hasek 10-4-1, 2.60 GAA

Both superior to Belfour. To imply he wasn't playing good enough to take the starting job is simply wrong.
And to imply that won/loss is anything more than a team stat is being disingenuous.
It's funny how you didn't bother to put Belfour's GAA up (a stat that says more about a team's defense than it does about a goalie).

1990-91

Belfour 2.47 (practically identical)


1991-92

Belfour 2.70 (not much difference)


Oh and by the way, you're STILL using numbers from all of five games in 90-91 to claim Hasek should have been starting over Belfour. Do you have any idea how silly that is? I'm pretty sure the Blackhawk coaches knew what they were doing starting Belfour and it had nothing to do with them picking on poor Hasek.

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10-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #281
DickSmehlik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
And to imply that won/loss is anything more than a team stat is being disingenuous.
It's funny how you didn't bother to put Belfour's GAA up (a stat that says more about a team's defense than it does about a goalie).

1990-91

Belfour 2.47 (practically identical)


1991-92

Belfour 2.70 (not much difference)


Oh and by the way, you're STILL using numbers from all of five games in 90-91 to claim Hasek should have been starting over Belfour. Do you have any idea how silly that is? I'm pretty sure the Blackhawk coaches knew what they were doing starting Belfour and it had nothing to do with them picking on poor Hasek.
What do you not get about him not being the starter because of his play? I never said he should have been the starter. The OP stated he did not play good enough to win the starting job over Belfour when clearly he made the most of starts as evidenced by his better numbers.

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10-19-2012, 07:53 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
What do you not get about him not being the starter because of his play? I never said he should have been the starter. The OP stated he did not play good enough to win the starting job over Belfour when clearly he made the most of starts as evidenced by his better numbers.
Too small of a sample size to say he was on par with Belfour not to mention that usually, the majority of a backups games are against weaker teams.

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10-19-2012, 07:53 PM
  #283
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
What do you not get about him not being the starter because of his play? I never said he should have been the starter. The OP stated he did not play good enough to win the starting job over Belfour when clearly he made the most of starts as evidenced by his better numbers.
A five game sampling is not evidence of better numbers.....What don't you get about that? And it's pretty obvious that he WASN'T good enough to win the job over Belfour since the bottom-line was Belfour was STILL the starter and Hasek was STILL riding the pine when all was said and done.

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10-19-2012, 08:14 PM
  #284
DickSmehlik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
A five game sampling is not evidence of better numbers.....What don't you get about that? And it's pretty obvious that he WASN'T good enough to win the job over Belfour since the bottom-line was Belfour was STILL the starter and Hasek was STILL riding the pine when all was said and done.
(MOD) if you are only getting 5 GP (and 4 starts) and go 3-0-1 and go 10-4-1 in the next season then you pretty much took the most with your opportunities and ran with them.

We know the real reason why he wasn't the starter and it wasn't because of his play. Eddie Belfour was supposed to be the starter and that was it. It is not uncommon for a back up goaltender to outplay the starter but the starter gets the benefit of the doubt because he has a body of work that the rookie can't claim. Belfour to his credit played well but you couldn't ask Hasek to play any better.

Happens to RB and QB's in football of the time too.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 10-19-2012 at 09:03 PM. Reason: don't make it personal
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Old
10-19-2012, 08:21 PM
  #285
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
(MOD) if you are only getting 5 GP (and 4 starts) and go 3-0-1 and go 10-4-1 in the next season then you pretty much took the most with your opportunities and ran with them.

We know the real reason why he wasn't the starter and it wasn't because of his play. Eddie Belfour was supposed to be the starter and that was it. It is not uncommon for a back up goaltender to outplay the starter but the starter gets the benefit of the doubt because he has a body of work that the rookie can't claim. Belfour to his credit played well but you couldn't ask Hasek to play any better.

Happens to RB and QB's in football of the time too.
This isn't about Roy, it's about Hasek. I'm not even sure that I've even MENTIONED Roy in this thread because it isn't about him (and I don't really feel like reading back to see).

On the other hand, you seem to have a knee-jerk emotional response to all things Hasek that it's calling your objectivity into question.

We do know the REAL reason Hasek wasn't the starter: At that point in time Belfour was better than him.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 10-19-2012 at 09:03 PM. Reason: quote
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Old
10-19-2012, 08:21 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Too small of a sample size to say he was on par with Belfour not to mention that usually, the majority of a backups games are against weaker teams.
It was too small a sample size but he did the most with his 5 games. Belfour was in the midst of a Vezina season.

And backups usually play against weaker teams but if it is not that often we see backups go 13-4-1 in their starts.

Again you can throw at lot of reasons for Roy over Hasek but only a fool would use Dominik's time in Chicago and first season in Buffalo as a reason.

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10-19-2012, 08:25 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
We do know the REAL reason Hasek wasn't the starter: .
Who is 'We"? Because judging from your posts you obviously don't.

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10-19-2012, 08:27 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
We know the real reason why he wasn't the starter and it wasn't because of his play. Eddie Belfour was supposed to be the starter and that was it. It is not uncommon for a back up goaltender to outplay the starter but the starter gets the benefit of the doubt because he has a body of work that the rookie can't claim.
Jimmy Waite was supposed to be the starter and Ed Belfour was a rookie in 1990-91. Then he was a contract holdout in 1991-92, and Chicago gave Hasek two of the first four games of the season. He played poorly. Ed Belfour got his money and took over from Jimmy Waite.

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10-19-2012, 08:35 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Jimmy Waite was supposed to be the starter and Ed Belfour was a rookie in 1990-91. Then he was a contract holdout in 1991-92, and Chicago gave Hasek two of the first four games of the season. He played poorly. Ed Belfour got his money and took over from Jimmy Waite.
Did you expect the reigning Vezina winner to be the back-up the next season?

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10-19-2012, 08:35 PM
  #290
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
Who is 'We"? Because judging from your posts you obviously don't.
I know it wasn't a conspiracy to keep poor wittle Dominik down. Belfour was the starter because at that time he was the better goalie. Period.

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10-19-2012, 08:44 PM
  #291
DickSmehlik
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I know it wasn't a conspiracy to keep poor wittle Dominik down. Belfour was the starter because at that time he was the better goalie. Period.
And Luongo was the regular season starter for the Canucks this season because he was the better goalie. Period.

Roberto Luongo 55GP 2.41GAA 31W 14L 8OTL .919
Cory Schneider 33GP 1.96GAA 20W 8L 1OTL .937



I suppose Schneider was a victim of that same conspiracy.

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10-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #292
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But seriously Luongo/Schneider is a good parallel as to Belfour/Hasek in Chicago.

One goalie was the starting goalie and was going to be the starter despite the back-ups performance. It happens a lot and I understand why that is.

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10-19-2012, 08:48 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
Did you expect the reigning Vezina winner to be the back-up the next season?
That doesn't even make sense...

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10-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #294
Morgoth Bauglir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
And Luongo was the regular season starter for the Canucks this season because he was the better goalie. Period.

Roberto Luongo 55GP 2.41GAA 31W 14L 8OTL .919
Cory Schneider 33GP 1.96GAA 20W 8L 1OTL .937



I suppose Schneider was a victim of that same conspiracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
But seriously Luongo/Schneider is a good parallel as to Belfour/Hasek in Chicago.

One goalie was the starting goalie and was going to be the starter despite the back-ups performance. It happens a lot and I understand why that is.
That's a pretty crappy comparison considering Luongo LOST his job to Schneider in the playoffs while Belfour KEPT his job and Hasek was packed off to Siberia errr Buffalo.

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10-19-2012, 09:00 PM
  #295
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I guess Hasek could have jumped in and stole the starting job from Belfour in his first professional season in North America but I am not going to fault him because he didn't, especially when he put up the numbers he did.

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10-19-2012, 09:11 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
That's a pretty crappy comparison considering Luongo LOST his job to Schneider in the playoffs while Belfour KEPT his job and Hasek was packed off to Siberia errr Buffalo.
I think I get what he is saying.

Why wasn't Schneider the regular starter when he was playing better than Luongo? Sometimes it doesn't matter how well you play if you're the backup.

FYI Hasek was traded to Buffalo because Chicago knew he was a legit starting goalie. Obviously they didn't know what they had in Hasek but given his numbers probably should have had an idea.

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10-19-2012, 09:56 PM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinter Klaas View Post
I guess Hasek could have jumped in and stole the starting job from Belfour in his first professional season in North America but I am not going to fault him because he didn't, especially when he put up the numbers he did.
Hasek was just plain wired differently. Took him quite some time to get acclimatised and actually used to North America & the NHL game. With equipment improvements, successes under his belt, his hubris grew in leaps & bounds, becoming even more daring & unorthodox as the seasons flew bye. He perhaps more than any other goaltender realized at some point in time early, had an epiphany I suppose, that goaltending is about 90% mental. He kicked it up a few more percentiles.

Extremely intelligent individual who had no fear in relying on instinct, his 6th sense in stopping the puck. Real throwback hybrid. Part Flopper. Part Acrobat. Part Standup. Part Butterfly. Risk taker who's mind could compute the odds in a nano second, contortion if necessary in order to stop or smother the puck done in less time than it takes to even think about it. So no, they didnt know what they had on their hands, didnt really care. Belfour & others far from slouches. This guy was an outlier, an Alien, prove yourself. Traditionalists had really little time for him, I know I certainly didnt care for his style even in full flight, at his peak, and for that I make no apology. But I certainly respect & admire him. Took a lot of guts to play the way he did.


Last edited by Killion: 10-19-2012 at 10:04 PM.
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