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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
10-19-2012, 12:12 AM
  #276
Ryker
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't think either side is "greedy." Both sides want the best deal possible for itself. The owners don't care what the players are losing. The players don't care what the owners are losing. Each side wants what is best for itself. Just like if you were negotiating something you had a stake in, you would want the best deal for yourself. I want this deal to get done as much as anyone, but saying one side is right and one is wrong or one is greedy etc is just silly. This is business. We suffer because of this, but that's the nature of the beast.
Couldn't agree more. This black and white, hero and anti-hero portrayal of either of the sides is just stupid and unrealistic.

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My biggest problem is why didn't they start the negotiations long ago? That way if they reached a bump in the road after a month of negotiations, they wouldn't be now missing out on $$$ and would still have time to work things out.
My guess is a mixture of complacency and each side thinking the other one is more desperate to get the season started than they are and thinking they'll get some leverage in negotiations in not proposing a meeting first.

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10-19-2012, 05:50 AM
  #277
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It blows my mind how close they are to a deal right now, but can't get it done.

It appears both parties can agree that 50/50 split is fair. How they get there is the disagreement.

NHLPA wants a 5 year gradual step down... which is unrealistic.

NHL wants to go 50/50 right now which they claim will not affect current salaries by using some super complicated escrow system.. which I don't really buy.

Surely there must be some middle ground here and I hope they can put their egos aside and find it before Oct 25. Save the season. and restore my faith in humanity.

If not then **** both of them.

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10-19-2012, 07:32 AM
  #278
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I don't know. I think the NHLPA wanted to test Bettman and the owners. See what happens with the owners that are truly against the lockout. The sad thing is, this NHL 50/50 deal should have been offered months ago as a starting point. Will they put more pressure on Bettman to get a deal done?

I'm sure come Oct 23rd/24th, there will be a super secret meeting where both sides come together. I'm being optimistic, but both sides should seriously realize that hockey cannot afford this lockout right now. So much momentum would be completely lost

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10-19-2012, 08:49 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
It blows my mind how close they are to a deal right now, but can't get it done.

It appears both parties can agree that 50/50 split is fair. How they get there is the disagreement.

NHLPA wants a 5 year gradual step down... which is unrealistic.

NHL wants to go 50/50 right now which they claim will not affect current salaries by using some super complicated escrow system.. which I don't really buy.

Surely there must be some middle ground here and I hope they can put their egos aside and find it before Oct 25. Save the season. and restore my faith in humanity.

If not then **** both of them.


this is what I'm saying

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10-19-2012, 09:16 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
Braydon Coburn ‏@BraydonCoburn
Wow. The NHL and NHLPA have agreed to a deal tonight!! Announcement coming shortly from Bettman and Fehr!


I think he was hacked again
It's a fake account.

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10-19-2012, 10:16 AM
  #281
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I held off on cancelling Comcast because of the rumblings of a deal going through. I just cancelled it. The lockout will soon be over, friends. You're welcome.

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10-19-2012, 10:34 AM
  #282
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millionaire arguing with billionaire over more money mean while most of the fans, who without us there would be no money to go around in the first place, who are lucky to crack 35 gs a year are supposed to sympathize with guys who feel like they need a better agreement to play a game for our entertainment(or own the team) for more money than most of us will ever ever see? for the 3rd time in 20 years?

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10-19-2012, 11:19 AM
  #283
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You know what. The millionairre vs billionairre thing really bugs me.

The Billionairres are there because of their damn good business skills. They made that fortune on their own, and employ not one, but 50 players, not including 100's of staff.

A considerable amount of those billionairres are also losing a significant amount of money to these "millionairres". Imagine that in the business world eh.

I know your losing money, but I want more money from you.

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10-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You know what. The millionairre vs billionairre thing really bugs me.

The Billionairres are there because of their damn good business skills. They made that fortune on their own, and employ not one, but 50 players, not including 100's of staff.

A considerable amount of those billionairres are also losing a significant amount of money to these "millionairres". Imagine that in the business world eh.

I know your losing money, but I want more money from you.
They might have great business skills but nobody wants to see a bunch of old men with business skills play hockey. NHL players have hockey skills, and they use them to make a living just like the owners used their "business skills" except business skills last a lifetime while hockey players have to cram their career earnings into a small window. Got to get yours while you can.

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10-19-2012, 02:23 PM
  #285
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IMO..the only empathy that should be felt in this high stakes spectacle is for the hockey fan. Players and owners do not get any sympathy from me except maybe the younger (the Schenn's and Couturier's) and older players (not far from retiring) somewhat....

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10-19-2012, 03:12 PM
  #286
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Maybe the players should offer an immediate reduction to 50/50 on the terms that ticket prices are slashed using that 7%.

The PR battle would immediately be won by the NHLPA.

*Also, just wanted to point out that one little silver lining in this whole lockout process is that I cannot wait to see Bettman stumble into a nationally televised event and hear the amount of boos that he is guaranteed to receive. It was bad enough in Pittsburgh during the draft, can't imagine how bad it will be elsewhere.

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Old
10-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Emperor View Post
Maybe the players should offer an immediate reduction to 50/50 on the terms that ticket prices are slashed using that 7%.

The PR battle would immediately be won by the NHLPA.

*Also, just wanted to point out that one little silver lining in this whole lockout process is that I cannot wait to see Bettman stumble into a nationally televised event and hear the amount of boos that he is guaranteed to receive. It was bad enough in Pittsburgh during the draft, can't imagine how bad it will be elsewhere.
People might throw locks at him

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Old
10-19-2012, 04:04 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
NHL players have hockey skills, and they use them to make a living just like the owners used their "business skills" except business skills last a lifetime while hockey players have to cram their career earnings into a small window. Got to get yours while you can.
Both parties are self-interested, which is fine. However, getting yours while you can, isn't a strong argument if it were used to try to recuse the players from the blame both the owners and the players are getting, leaving only the owners.

Here's why: Hockey players have a "smaller" window than owners to earn money physically playing hockey, but a professional hockey player with any sense is set for life. Investing even a fraction of what they earn sets them up for life. If you don't believe me, look up how much a person retires with who only puts 2000 dollars into a good 401k from age 20 to age 30. They also continue to have marketable skills post professional hockey if they set themselves up in the right way, but the onus is solely on them for that.

They want to get their money, which is fine, but both the owners and the players are doing fine. I don't really care about their shortened window to earn staggering amounts of money. I don't see it as a good pro-player argument.

If they're morons with money, then not much can be done either way.

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10-19-2012, 04:06 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Emperor View Post
Maybe the players should offer an immediate reduction to 50/50 on the terms that ticket prices are slashed using that 7%.

The PR battle would immediately be won by the NHLPA.

*Also, just wanted to point out that one little silver lining in this whole lockout process is that I cannot wait to see Bettman stumble into a nationally televised event and hear the amount of boos that he is guaranteed to receive. It was bad enough in Pittsburgh during the draft, can't imagine how bad it will be elsewhere.
Why would the players want a big chunk of their money cut by 7%, the owners aren't the only ones who benefit from ticket prices going up... Nobody is going to give a **** about the PR battle when it's over.

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10-19-2012, 04:12 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
Nobody is going to give a **** about the PR battle when it's over.
People are still talking about how the last lockout was regarded and who did or did not get hosed. It is certainly influencing and setting the culture of this one. The players, Kimmo included, has gone on record talking about how they took cuts in the last lockout.

The public discourse has definitely been shaped by the PR battle. I'm sure it'll influence this season, perhaps who gives up more in the finalized CBA, mass NHL events like the All-Star Game/Winter Classic, every time Bettman steps on the ice, and the next future CBA.

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Old
10-19-2012, 06:27 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You know what. The millionairre vs billionairre thing really bugs me.

The Billionairres are there because of their damn good business skills. They made that fortune on their own, and employ not one, but 50 players, not including 100's of staff.

A considerable amount of those billionairres are also losing a significant amount of money to these "millionairres". Imagine that in the business world eh.

I know your losing money, but I want more money from you.
The millionaires are there because they are the best in the world at what they do. The billionaires make money off of hockey because these millionaires sacrifice their bodies for the game. The fans show up and buy merchandise because of the millionaires. You won't ever see someone buying an Ed Snider jersey.

If they are losing money it's because they can't control themselves with the contracts they choose to hand out. Imagine if your boss was crying poor, then handed you a large contract, and then continued to cry poor and asked for some of the money they willingly offered you. That's not going to go over well. Anywhere.

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10-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
You won't ever see someone buying an Ed Snider jersey.
Ed Snider is really good guy. I don't want to name drop, but I'm close enough to him to hear / witness / spoken with at length (one of those is true) how good of a guy he is. I would at least *consider* wearing something to support Ed. Follow his charity schedule for a month. He deserves a jersey more than Shelley, right? And I got my picture taken with him (Shelley).

Quote:
If they are losing money it's because they can't control themselves with the contracts they choose to hand out. Imagine if your boss was crying poor, then handed you a large contract, and then continued to cry poor and asked for some of the money they willingly offered you. That's not going to go over well. Anywhere.
The owners shrank in the last CBA, gave out contracts that lost them money to give you a great team ever year-- to make YOU happy, and you classify it as crying poor. They're not crying poor -- they're wanting stop bleeding money to entertain the guy that is mocking them: You.

It's hilarious that you're saying they can't "control themselves" as if they are children. They issued contracts within the current system, knowing they would lose money they would have to fight to get back, in order to give you a quality team.

NHL teams are smart vanity purchases because they break even or better and grow with inflation. If they were truly interested in making money as the *sole and only motivation* they would invest their money in something else entirely -- there are hundreds of better investments.

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10-19-2012, 11:47 PM
  #293
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Both sides make big money and acted like spoiled kids i don't give a **** any more **** them both sides.

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10-20-2012, 12:34 AM
  #294
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Both sides make big money and acted like spoiled kids i don't give a **** any more **** them both sides.
What does that have to do with anything? But yeah, I agree, this whole thing is getting boring. I wish they'd just agree, or if not, cancel the whole season and not do it piece by piece.

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10-20-2012, 10:29 AM
  #295
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http://m.thestar.com/sports/hockey/n...nhlpa-coup-cox


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On Thursday, Fehr walked into a significant meeting with several NHL owners 90 minutes late, plopped down two single sheets of paper, each with a different skeleton proposal to the owners that didn’t include any ideas on systemic issues, then verbally delivered a third proposal with no accompanying paperwork. For all three proposals, he acknowledged to the owners he hadn’t actually “run the numbers.”
JFC. And then the players all stand behind this clown, with their mean faces on, complaining that Buttman and the owners shot them down and didn't take them serious. Well no ****ing kidding, who would take that serious??? What a joke.

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10-20-2012, 10:46 AM
  #296
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Kind of on topic off topic a little, if the season is lost how fast do you think it would take the NHL to get back to where it is now popularity-wise?

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10-20-2012, 11:06 AM
  #297
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Kind of on topic off topic a little, if the season is lost how fast do you think it would take the NHL to get back to where it is now popularity-wise?
I know alot of people, probably are ready to not follow NHL again and maybe for good, who knows.

However, I still love the game. So I'm still going to watch all the games and go to alot of them, I think NHL will get back to a high level again, sure it will take some time, because when people see action, they will want to watch.

Now I hope some teams are relocated.

I'm also hearing the oilers could be moved to seattle, the new arena plans in EDM looks like they were shotdown.

but not having the oilers in EDM would be a harsh reality, i mean when you think of NHL, the oilers are right up there.

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10-20-2012, 01:29 PM
  #298
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I know alot of people, probably are ready to not follow NHL again and maybe for good, who knows.
In all honesty, I think they're just saying that now and I think the NHL won't lose much, if anything at all, with a lockout.

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10-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
http://m.thestar.com/sports/hockey/n...nhlpa-coup-cox




JFC. And then the players all stand behind this clown, with their mean faces on, complaining that Buttman and the owners shot them down and didn't take them serious. Well no ****ing kidding, who would take that serious??? What a joke.
What the hell...

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Old
10-20-2012, 03:07 PM
  #300
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The fans have no true side.

In the end, both the players and the owners are bickering semantics with the money we're going to hand them the day they stop bickering.

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