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Old
10-19-2012, 10:56 AM
  #51
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Rattie had a slow start to the season, but in October he has 11 points and 7 goals in 6 games. You know what's even better than that, his point per game average was better with out Sven last season, but yeah he totally can't play without Sven.
I don't know where you're getting your info from.... That's just plain wrong. Sven had an assist on 31 of Rattie's goals for crying out loud. And that's missing half the season. Rattie is a finisher. Plain and simple. As long as someone can create the offense, he can put the puck in the net. He plays a similar game to how Iginla plays now. He can bury it, but someone else has to create it. Iginla used to be able to create and finish. I don't think Rattie will ever be that type of scorer.

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10-19-2012, 10:57 AM
  #52
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
lol alright buddy
What did you disagree with exactly? That JBo isn't top 30 or McDonald isn't top 60? Your comment was fairly useless to the conversation.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #53
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McDonald is 35 years old, injury prone. He's on the downswing of his career.

I'm sure he's great for St. Louis, but he's not worth giving up an asset like Bouwmeester for at this point. Calgary passes. St. Louis can keep him, and I mean that in the most respectful way possible.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #54
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lol alright buddy
A compelling argument.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #55
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I guess value is ok, but JBo is a) the guy the Blues-fans wouldn't take even if he would be for free on HFand b) just too expensive for the Blues

So back to the old story: switch JBo with Giordano and most of us will be all for it

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10-19-2012, 11:20 AM
  #56
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I guess value is ok, but JBo is a) the guy the Blues-fans wouldn't take even if he would be for free on HFand b) just too expensive for the Blues

So back to the old story: switch JBo with Giordano and most of us will be all for it
I don't think Giordano is a guy we'd move unless we clearly won the trade. Him and Glencross just fit too well to move either for anything less than an overpay. Rattie and McDonald for Gio and Backlund would at best be a wash for us in terms of value. It's like you guys wouldn't move Backes for anything less than a clear win.

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10-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I don't know where you're getting your info from.... That's just plain wrong. Sven had an assist on 31 of Rattie's goals for crying out loud. And that's missing half the season. Rattie is a finisher. Plain and simple. As long as someone can create the offense, he can put the puck in the net. He plays a similar game to how Iginla plays now. He can bury it, but someone else has to create it. Iginla used to be able to create and finish. I don't think Rattie will ever be that type of scorer.
Ok a small miscalculation, but in 24 games without Sven during the regular season, Rattie put up 17 goals, 23 assists for 40 points. That's good for a 115 point pace over his 69 games played. With those numbers, it easily proves that Rattie would have done just as well even if he didn't have Sven at all. Calgary fans can stop with how Sven made Rattie and how Rattie won't be anything without Sven. The season before, they produced at similar clips too. This whole Rattie will never make it by Flames fans is getting old and tired.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:31 AM
  #58
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The Flames #1 dman for an old, injury prone, declining forward? No.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:33 AM
  #59
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Ok a small miscalculation, but in 24 games without Sven during the regular season, Rattie put up 17 goals, 23 assists for 40 points. That's good for a 115 point pace over his 69 games played. With those numbers, it easily proves that Rattie would have done just as well even if he didn't have Sven at all. Calgary fans can stop with how Sven made Rattie and how Rattie won't be anything without Sven. The season before, they produced at similar clips too. This whole Rattie will never make it by Flames fans is getting old and tired.
I certainly have never said Rattie will never make it. I just think he's a finisher, not a catalyst. And to say playing for a team like Portland hasn't helped a finisher is just stupid. They've had the right guys in place to utilize Rattie's talent of burying pucks. I just watched him and he scored 4 goals against us. Yet I hardly noticed him all night. He reminds me of Moulson in that regard. You don't notice him, but he produces offense.

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10-19-2012, 11:35 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I certainly have never said Rattie will never make it. I just think he's a finisher, not a catalyst. And to say playing for a team like Portland hasn't helped a finisher is just stupid. They've had the right guys in place to utilize Rattie's talent of burying pucks. I just watched him and he scored 4 goals against us. Yet I hardly noticed him all night. He reminds me of Moulson in that regard. You don't notice him, but he produces offense.
Notice, I said Calgary fans, not Double Dion specifically. And for the record, no Blues fan is expecting Rattie to turn into a star either.

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:36 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
The Flames #1 dman for an old, injury prone, declining forward? No.
He's not declining...

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:40 AM
  #62
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Neither team wants the trade, why are people arguing?

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10-19-2012, 11:41 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Ok a small miscalculation, but in 24 games without Sven during the regular season, Rattie put up 17 goals, 23 assists for 40 points. That's good for a 115 point pace over his 69 games played. With those numbers, it easily proves that Rattie would have done just as well even if he didn't have Sven at all. Calgary fans can stop with how Sven made Rattie and how Rattie won't be anything without Sven. The season before, they produced at similar clips too. This whole Rattie will never make it by Flames fans is getting old and tired.
Most Calgary fans I've seen/heard opinions from are of the opinion that either a) Rattie is amazing and the Flames need to acquire him or b) he's solid, but not guaranteed. There are very few people, at least on HFBoards, who are saying that Rattie's useless without Baertschi. We tend to be of the opinion that Baertschi was the primary engine driving their line last season, and I don't think that's unfair; it doesn't mean that Rattie's not a good prospect on his own, but that playing with an elite player tends to goose your production a bit (an NHL analog might be Heatley on the Pizza line; he was probably the least effective of the three at driving possession, but he was still a very good player regardless).

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10-19-2012, 11:45 AM
  #64
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I'm sure if I cared enough, I'd find some quotes of Flames fans implying that Rattie wouldn't be anything without Sven. Not saying that anyone specifically said that, but just that I would find some.

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10-19-2012, 11:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Neither team wants the trade, why are people arguing?
Probably everyone is pissed at the owners and players about how things went yesterday, and we are just taking it out on each other.

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Old
10-19-2012, 12:17 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PavelDatsyuk View Post
MacDonald is a forward I'm not terrible high on from the Blues and, in my opinion, losing him is replaceable on that team. Yes he puts up a highish PPG average but he needs one, often both of his linemates to compensate for his (what I call) pure offense-instincts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I agree with PD that McDonald requires some support from his linemates defensively
I've always thought McDonald was pretty solid defensively, even going back to his Anaheim days. That said, If it came down to a 1-for-1 McDonald=Bouwmeester, I make that deal if I'm St. Louis.

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10-19-2012, 12:42 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
really?.... does it matter that much to you???? its the internet... not some grammar test
Andy McDonald is a forward for the St. Louis Blues.
Andy MacDonald is a defenseman for the New York Islanders.

In this case, it legitimately matters. Kind of like the whole Ni(c)klas Backstrom issue.


As for the thread... Bouwmeester is (as usual) getting criminally underrated, but I still don't think it works for the Blues. McDonald really does act as a catalyst for that team.

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10-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I guess value is ok, but JBo is a) the guy the Blues-fans wouldn't take even if he would be for free on HFand b) just too expensive for the Blues

So back to the old story: switch JBo with Giordano and most of us will be all for it
The issue I have had for some time with Bouwmeester is a combination of his unfortunate contract and that he does not do as well under heavy physical pressure as the Blues would prefer for a partner with Pietrangelo. The Blues play a physically heavy style and as a result the other team tends to as well if they do not natively. The Kings playing the Blues this year in the playoffs drove that home, as did the Sharks when Thornton was on the ice.

Ian Cole likely is not the answer either, however at the moment Cole is free and could develop in to that player. Bouwmeester likely not and would cost the Blues a major offensive force and a shiny prospect.

(Damn that Jason Garrison, he would have been costly as well but it would only be money, not money and players)

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10-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
I really am shocked that you would consider this trade. Even as a fallback. Remember we're talking about our only PPG player of our last two playoff appearances. Who exactly would fill that kind of void? And besides McDonald, would you really want to give up a prospect like Rattie for an overpaid Bouwmeester? Don't get me wrong, I think Bouwmeester would be a decent partner for Pietrangelo, but definitely not at this price.
I like Rattie as a prospect, but like PD said he's probably multiple years away and I think he's a tough player to project. I think he'll contribute at the NHL level, but will he be a driving force of the offense (and thus a critical component of the team)? It's really hard to make that call with any certainty.

Bouwmeester IS overpaid, but I think he might fit well here. The Blues play a style that can get the most out of what he has to offer, while still helping to cover for his limitations as a player. He's not perfect, but with Pietrangelo drawing most of the attention on that pairing and the overall structure the Blues play with I think Blues fans would be fairly happy with the result. He's not my ideal partner for Pietrangelo, but the Blues could do much, much worse. Given the new ownership situation, I don't have any real idea if the Blues could make it work financially at this point, so it's hard to dismiss the trade on that alone. My gut says it wouldn't happen, but there's enough uncertainty that we could at least entertain the idea.

McDonald is the only real stumbling block to the deal for me. He means quite a bit to this team, even at this point in his career. Still, if it looks like enough other players have elevated their games (Perron, Oshie, Berglund, etc.) and Tarasenko and Schwartz are impressing to the point where McDonald might not be quite as critical, then maybe it's something that can be considered if the defense looks terrible. I'm not saying it would be anywhere near my first option even in that scenario, but I would at least consider it in the right circumstances.

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Old
10-19-2012, 03:28 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I guess value is ok, but JBo is a) the guy the Blues-fans wouldn't take even if he would be for free on HFand b) just too expensive for the Blues

So back to the old story: switch JBo with Giordano and most of us will be all for it
lol, you'll be paying alot more too. The Flames will want a much better deal then this one offered.

Rattie may be a fine prospect, he's not anywhere close to being NHL ready, probably 3-5 years away still, imo. Plus, we have our own Rattie in Coda Gordon.

Giordano is a great 3-4 guy on a sweetheart of a contract, he isn't going anywhere.

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10-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #71
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This makes sense for neither team. St. Louis is in win now mode, there is no reason for them to trade their top producer right now.

Calgary meanwhile, is not really close to a contending team right now, and trading away their #1 defensemen for a 35 year old is the opposite of what they should be doing.

I know Rattie and Backlund are other elements to the equation, but I don't think either makes it worth it for either team to give up one of their key players.

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10-19-2012, 04:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
The Flames #1 dman for an old, injury prone, declining forward? No.
The Blues #1 current offensive player for an overrated, overpaid Dman who hasn't played in the playoffs for his whole career? No.

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Old
10-19-2012, 05:42 PM
  #73
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I'd rather have Backlund over Rattie, not a Rattie fan at all.
Your cray man . Backlands has Ben a disappointment for the flames and hasn't shown any signs of improvement . I'd take rattle over backlund anyday

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10-19-2012, 06:59 PM
  #74
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Your cray man . Backlands has Ben a disappointment for the flames and hasn't shown any signs of improvement . I'd take rattle over backlund anyday
If all you do is look at points then he hasn't shown any signs of improvement. However if watch games, he's improved a lot.

Defensively responsible, positive puck possession on a team that has almost no one with it and still young. People who want to trade for Rattie are basically just trying to recreate the Hnat Domenichelli experience over again.

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Old
10-19-2012, 07:48 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I guess value is ok, but JBo is a) the guy the Blues-fans wouldn't take even if he would be for free on HFand b) just too expensive for the Blues

So back to the old story: switch JBo with Giordano and most of us will be all for it
Switch JBo with Gio but then change McDonald to Steen.

We could keep or eliminate the Backlund for Rattie part as that is likely a wash. I'd rather keep the 2/3 2 way center then the projected 2/3 winger though.

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