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Old
10-17-2012, 11:30 AM
  #101
Stewie Griffin
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Full "NHL Proposal to Save 82-Game Season"

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

This paragraph made my brain hurt the first five times I read it, but I think it's the nugget that can help get a deal done, despite the NHLPA's cautious reaction to the proposal.

Quote:
10. Players' Share "Make Whole" Provision:

• The League proposes to make Players "whole" for the absolute reduction in Players' Share dollars (when compared to 2011/12) that is attributable to the economic terms of the new CBA (the "Share Reduction"). Using an assumed year-over-year growth rate of 5% for League-wide revenues, the new CBA could result in shortfalls from the current level of Players' Share dollars ($1.883 Billion in 2011/12) of up to $149 million in Year 1 and up to $62 million in Year 2, for which Players will be "made whole." (By Year 3 of the new CBA, Players' Share dollars should exceed the current level ($1.883 Billion for 2011/12) and no "make whole" will be required.) Any such "shortfalls" in Years 1 and 2 of the new CBA will be computed as a percentage reduction off of the Player's stated contractual compensation, and will be repaid to the Player as a Deferred Compensation benefit spread over the remaining future years of the Player's SPC (or if he has no remaining years, in the year following the expiration of his SPC). Player reimbursement for the Share Reduction will be accrued and paid for by the League, and will be chargeable against Players' Share amounts in future years as Preliminary Benefits. The objective would be to honor all existing SPCs by restoring their "value" on the basis of the now existing level of Players' Share dollars.

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10-17-2012, 12:57 PM
  #102
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After reading the proposal and comments from either side. I'm not overly optimistic that a deal will get done anytime soon, let alone the season start November 2nd. I believe the NHLPA will reject the owners proposal and then counter with their own that will also be rejected. Though I do hope I am wrong.

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10-17-2012, 02:14 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
After reading the proposal and comments from either side. I'm not overly optimistic that a deal will get done anytime soon, let alone the season start November 2nd. I believe the NHLPA will reject the owners proposal and then counter with their own that will also be rejected. Though I do hope I am wrong.
Hey, if the NHLPA can make a counter proposal based off the one the NHL made, that's progress.

Personally I think if the "make whole" process can be clarified, and paid for by the owners without some convoluted process, I think we're really close to seeing a deal.

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10-17-2012, 03:57 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Hey, if the NHLPA can make a counter proposal based off the one the NHL made, that's progress.

Personally I think if the "make whole" process can be clarified, and paid for by the owners without some convoluted process, I think we're really close to seeing a deal.
You are much more optimistic than myself. I hope you are right.

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10-17-2012, 04:12 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Hey, if the NHLPA can make a counter proposal based off the one the NHL made, that's progress.

Personally I think if the "make whole" process can be clarified, and paid for by the owners without some convoluted process, I think we're really close to seeing a deal.
I think player contract length could create a problem, that's just me though.

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10-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #106
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I think player contract length could create a problem, that's just me though.
I hope that part stays I'm sick of the BS contracts lately.

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10-17-2012, 04:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ynnek View Post
I hope that part stays I'm sick of the BS contracts lately.
Well, 5 year contracts is a bit too short IMO. No one is going to sign a player at 38 years old. (That is when they go into Free Agency for a 2nd time) It should be somewhere around 6-9 years for a max length.

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10-17-2012, 05:41 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
Well, 5 year contracts is a bit too short IMO. No one is going to sign a player at 38 years old. (That is when they go into Free Agency for a 2nd time) It should be somewhere around 6-9 years for a max length.
I think the 5 year thing is perfect. For example a player may sign a contract with a very good team at the time of the deal, then 5 years later all of a sudden the team is not doing so well, and wants out but can't do so if they are locked in a long term contract. Also good for owners if the player declines in production.

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10-17-2012, 06:56 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesrule View Post
I think player contract length could create a problem, that's just me though.
I'd almost bank on this being one of the first "concessions" given, but we will still see a cap. Probably closer to ten years. +/-

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10-17-2012, 07:42 PM
  #110
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The PA isn't going to accept the deal as is, and rightly so. Frankly, they'd be idiots to do so.

What they should and probably will do, is negotiate on the framework of the deal, which is essentially, a 50/50 split with no change to the definition of HRR or players being short changed on existing contracts.

It's been reported that the PA's preparing to present a counter offer on Thursday after they get more details on the NHL's proposal on Wednesday. I suspect they'll counter with a gradual decline in the revenue split instead of an immediate fall, greater revenue sharing from the rich teams, any and all monies going from players escrow accounts that are a result of a decreased percentage split being put in a revenue sharing pot so rich teams like Toronto and Rangers don't profit from the salary reduction, and of course, haggling over the UFA age, ELC duration, etc.

Then the League will counter that proposal and so on, and both sides will likely end up agreeing to a deal for a November 2nd start and a full 82 game schedule. There's no need to rush; Bettman's already come out and said that they have 9 or ten days to get things finalized and signed. And since not even he expected the players to accept the proposal as is, I'm not sure why fans expect the PA to do so.
This is more or less my stance. After reading the business of hockey forum for a while -- or atleast found out who the knowledgable posters were -- it became apparent that the problems of the league were the disparity between owners. Lowering the costs (ie, player salaries) is not the solution that will keep us from seeing these crazy negotiations 6 years down the road.

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10-17-2012, 08:53 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
The PA isn't going to accept the deal as is, and rightly so. Frankly, they'd be idiots to do so.

What they should and probably will do, is negotiate on the framework of the deal, which is essentially, a 50/50 split with no change to the definition of HRR or players being short changed on existing contracts.

It's been reported that the PA's preparing to present a counter offer on Thursday after they get more details on the NHL's proposal on Wednesday. I suspect they'll counter with a gradual decline in the revenue split instead of an immediate fall, greater revenue sharing from the rich teams, any and all monies going from players escrow accounts that are a result of a decreased percentage split being put in a revenue sharing pot so rich teams like Toronto and Rangers don't profit from the salary reduction, and of course, haggling over the UFA age, ELC duration, etc.

Then the League will counter that proposal and so on, and both sides will likely end up agreeing to a deal for a November 2nd start and a full 82 game schedule. There's no need to rush; Bettman's already come out and said that they have 9 or ten days to get things finalized and signed. And since not even he expected the players to accept the proposal as is, I'm not sure why fans expect the PA to do so.
I would love for the PA to give a counter offer as it would be the first significant thing to happen in the entire process but I get the feeling that it will be much like before where we will hear it is unacceptable and they will offer the same offer for the 4th time which does even less to fix the problems in the NHL. If the PA doesn't adopt the overall structure of this deal in their counter it will most likely be the end of hope for a season as the owners will not give a better offer if they can't get 82 games in this year.

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Old
10-18-2012, 12:29 AM
  #112
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I think a deal gets done in the next 2 weeks. Obviously there are some hurdles to over come here, but I think once the complete understanding on the numbers of this proposal are made, transparency is given, certain things are tweaked, then I think we'll see hockey. I think the NHL left certain things in (ie. contract length) for bargaining chips with the PA.

Like I said, I don't think its a done deal, but the framework has been laid. I'm going to remain optimistic here.

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10-18-2012, 12:34 PM
  #113
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Iggy's in TO today for the meetings, now ***** gonna get done!

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10-18-2012, 01:18 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I think a deal gets done in the next 2 weeks. Obviously there are some hurdles to over come here, but I think once the complete understanding on the numbers of this proposal are made, transparency is given, certain things are tweaked, then I think we'll see hockey. I think the NHL left certain things in (ie. contract length) for bargaining chips with the PA.

Like I said, I don't think its a done deal, but the framework has been laid. I'm going to remain optimistic here.
I am not nearly as optimistic but the fact the owners gave this year as a grace period so that the players could earn the same amount which is their slogan could be a huge help.

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10-18-2012, 03:33 PM
  #115
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I think we'll see hockey this season.

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
Quote:
#CBA Of the multiple (4) proposals discussed on PA"s conference call, all include gradual step-downs to 50-50.
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
Quote:
#CBA Told that players discussed merits of these proposals and which, if not all, should be presented to NHL this afternoon
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
Quote:
Of the 4 proposals being presented to the NHL by the NHLPA, all include a gradual step towards 50/50 split. Year 1 starts around 54/46.

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10-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I think we'll see hockey this season.

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN


David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
I still will not get excited, only cause I don't want to see my hopes get crushed when this all falls apart.

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10-18-2012, 04:40 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
I still will not get excited, only cause I don't want to see my hopes get crushed when this all falls apart.
Like mine?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...lpa_cba_offer/

Quote:
Bettman 'thoroughly disappointed' with NHLPA offer

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10-18-2012, 04:42 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
The league wants 50-50 split this year not in 2-3 years the players refuse to offer that in any proposal, I truly believe this season is lost as the players refuse make significant movement on this years split.

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10-18-2012, 05:35 PM
  #119
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Well ****.

Sigh...not good news.

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10-18-2012, 08:08 PM
  #120
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Meh. Most likely, this all just posturing and the two sides will agree to a deal by December or January.

On the chance that it's not just rhetoric and the entire season's lost, well then good. Having a lockout be the defacto response every time the CBA expires isn't healthy. Let the NHL destroy itself and hopefully what emerges from the ashes isn't so narrow minded.

Besides, all the strife is over economic issues. Neither side seems interested in fixing the undeniable decline in the quality of the game. It's hard to get excited about watching teams trap their way to the playoffs and then the Cup.

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10-18-2012, 09:06 PM
  #121
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Just posturing I think.. Bettman says he's disappointed because no offer guaranteed it would hit 50-50, while Fehr said one did but that was on the condition that all contracts would be protected.. Meh. I honestly don't give a **** who prevails. As long as I see ****ing hockey

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10-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #122
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I'd just like to know why the PA couldn't make an offer for an entire month, then present three proposals in about an hour.

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10-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #123
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Because Fehr realizes he's trying to fight a battle he can't win.

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10-19-2012, 11:47 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
Just posturing I think.. Bettman says he's disappointed because no offer guaranteed it would hit 50-50, while Fehr said one did but that was on the condition that all contracts would be protected.. Meh. I honestly don't give a **** who prevails. As long as I see ****ing hockey
Kind of how I feel, because no matter what at the end of the day, the players and owners will all still be making millions.

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10-19-2012, 07:49 PM
  #125
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I'd just like to know why the PA couldn't make an offer for an entire month, then present three proposals in about an hour.
Public Relations. It looks like the NHLPA is trying very hard when they give the owners 3 options to save the season. Especially when one of them gives the owners a 50/50 split immediately.

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