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All Purpose Luongo Trade Discussion (New news) MOD WARNING IN OP

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:08 PM
  #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Close but the Leafs are looking for a little more D


To Tor- Luongo, Raymond and Ballard
To Van- Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri and Komi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Komisarek is a non-starter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
He will have to be included for salary purposes

Just not in a terrible proposal like the one above
take out komi nucks take out Ballard

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:12 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
take out komi nucks take out Ballard
but then no one takes Luongo

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:14 PM
  #928
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OK enough is enough. As I said above, discussions can branch off into other smaller discussions, but the core of the conversation needs to pertain to the topic at hand. NO MORE BALLARD TALK. Bring him up in a Lu proposal. Explain why you don't like him. Fine. But comparing him to other players or discussing ad nauseam whether or not he is a second pairing defenseman is getting old.

If you'd like to see how serious I am, ignore me. This is the fourth mod warning in this thread. The first one mentioned forum bans. Guess what my next weapon is...

...yep.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:17 PM
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
take out komi nucks take out Ballard
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
but then no one takes Luongo
let us face some cold hard truths

in a deal where you swap two d-men who nearly every deal that comes up are called dead weight --you are just trading problems

in any Luongo deal I do not see the nucks taking on a contract dump or a player most posters would agree should not be in the NHL


Last edited by jumptheshark: 10-20-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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Old
10-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #930
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but then no one takes Luongo
LOL, give it a rest. Taking Komisarek's anchor of a contract will not be a per-requisite to trading Luongo, at all.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:23 PM
  #931
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I don't think it's been discussed yet, but with the clause in the proposed CBA that would allow us to pay up to 3 mil of Luongo's salary, the NYI might be interested in him. Nabokov would make an ideal backup to Cory, although I'm not to familiar with what kind of pieces they have available.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:29 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
OK enough is enough. As I said above, discussions can branch off into other smaller discussions, but the core of the conversation needs to pertain to the topic at hand. NO MORE BALLARD TALK. Bring him up in a Lu proposal. Explain why you don't like him. Fine. But comparing him to other players or discussing ad nauseam whether or not he is a second pairing defenseman is getting old.

If you'd like to see how serious I am, ignore me. This is the fourth mod warning in this thread. The first one mentioned forum bans. Guess what my next weapon is...

...yep.
clarification

in the deal that was last put forward Both fan basis are rejecting the trade mostly due to the addition of each of the said d-men that have been added to the deal and the discussion is about what each brings to the table and how a change of teams could help either one? But we can not discuss that?


As I said, adding those two to the deal is a push, both are on bad contracts for what they are doing and it is a question to be asked who has the worse contract based upon performance over the past two seasons

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:36 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Petrovic
Matthias
1st

FOR
Luongo

Someone said that Florida fans agreed on it, so seeing if they do.
I'd be happy with this. Or if florida wanted to sub howden in for one of the pieces.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:38 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I'm sure Vancouver's defence had nothing to do with his Jennings trophy win.

It hasn't been one season: He was terrible before the 2010 Olympics and nearly cost Canada the win. Any one of our goalies could've started that tournament because of how "blah" they all were.

Paid professionals aren't always right (look at Team Canada in 2006), but let's go with what you said anywhoo:

http://thehockeywriters.com/roberto-...e-trade-value/



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ongo-right-now



http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/G...117/story.html



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/story/?i...hl-maple_leafs



The guy is wildly overrated by the Cancucks and their fans.

As noted below, nice cherry picking of quotes, also how did he almost cost his team a gold medal? This is one of the bigest myths in hockey. Like I said if you don't like him fine, if you don't want him fine. But more people than just Canuck fans, including paid professionals would disagree with you.

Who had a better defense, the Preds or the nucks? Who had a better team defense the preds or the nucks? Who playe a more defensive style the preds or the nucks? Yet I am sure the Nucks defense is the sole reason Lui and Cory won the Jennings...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bleacher Report is not a source.

In the Vancouver Sun article you left out the next sentence.


And in the TSN article, they say Florida won't give up a Blue Chip prospect(i.e Huberdeau or Bjugstad) which makes sense, as they have Markstrom, but obviously that implies other teams are willing to give up more value...Just not Gillis' initial asking price of Gardiner/1st/Frattin/Bozak.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
That would make sense, but i'll tell you from experience (last season), if your coaches don't name 1 guy the #1G, both guys will be looking over thier shoulder wondering if 1 loss puts them on the bench. There NEEDS to be a clear #1 guy.
I think the Blues might disagree, everyone knew Halak was their guy, but it was a great tandem for them.

The Bruins the year before, I think most thought Rask was the guy, but Thomas came back and stole the position back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't think it's been discussed yet, but with the clause in the proposed CBA that would allow us to pay up to 3 mil of Luongo's salary, the NYI might be interested in him. Nabokov would make an ideal backup to Cory, although I'm not to familiar with what kind of pieces they have available.
Interesting. Not sure they would be interested, but makes one think. Personally I really hope somehow Bryz is allowed to stay in the KHL, I am really coming around to thinking Vorcek could be the perfect piece on our second line. A big good skating pass first winger...

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:41 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
clarification

in the deal that was last put forward Both fan basis are rejecting the trade mostly due to the addition of each of the said d-men that have been added to the deal and the discussion is about what each brings to the table and how a change of teams could help either one? But we can not discuss that?


As I said, adding those two to the deal is a push, both are on bad contracts for what they are doing and it is a question to be asked who has the worse contract based upon performance over the past two seasons
If we are discussing the two, I think Ballard is just on a bad contract for what he is doing, still a solid defence man. He could still play top four if needed, especially in the right system with the right role. Where Komi has fallen of the map, maybe he will bounce back, but he was hardly an NHL dman last year on a pour defensive team.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
clarification

in the deal that was last put forward Both fan basis are rejecting the trade mostly due to the addition of each of the said d-men that have been added to the deal and the discussion is about what each brings to the table and how a change of teams could help either one? But we can not discuss that?


As I said, adding those two to the deal is a push, both are on bad contracts for what they are doing and it is a question to be asked who has the worse contract based upon performance over the past two seasons
adding those two in a Luongo deal would only be considered a push if both teams saw both players as comparable pieces who are equally replaceable. They would only be a push if you could swap both players on either team and it would provide the same impact on both teams.

I can't speak to the value of Komisarek in Toronto. Maybe they value him equally to Ballard, but because he has a shorter contract feel he has more value to them? I can say that Ballard would have considerably more value to the Canucks however. We know this by the several comments that both Gillis and AV have said about the importance of mobility and puck-moving ability from their dmen. Whatever criticisms people have of Ballard, his mobility is certainly not one of them. Not to mention that Ballard actually fills a positional need, whereas Komisarek wouldn't. Ballard is need to fill the 3rd pairing left side next to Tanev - a player he's played next to in the past and has played well in that role. Would Komisarek be able to slide to the left side (being in a right handed player) and provide Tanev the type of partner he works well with?

We get that Ballard is considered trash right now around the league. So why include him in any Luongo trade? All that does is add a $4.25mill cap hit in a deal where people don't even want him, unless they can throw what they feel is an equally bad contract the other way. Why not just ignore him in such trades - just like Komisarek.

The Leafs don't want Ballard, the Canucks need him. The Canucks don't want Komisarek... can't comment as a Canucks fan if they Leafs need him or not though. But regardless, neither player needs to be mentioned in a Luongo trade. Ballard is worth more to us than he is in a trade, and Komisarek is massive negative value to the Canucks. It doesn't make any sense to include them in a Luongo trade. And they certainly aren't considered a push from a Canucks POV. Again one player is needed to fill a specific hole, next to a specific player that he has played next to, while bringing a specific skill set that the defense is built around... the other doesn't fill a positional need, doesn't fill a team systems need, and doesn't even have the option in his contract to be waived. I don't see how these assets are considered a "push" in any deal.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bleacher Report is not a source.

In the Vancouver Sun article you left out the next sentence.


And in the TSN article, they say Florida won't give up a Blue Chip prospect(i.e Huberdeau or Bjugstad) which makes sense, as they have Markstrom, but obviously that implies other teams are willing to give up more value...Just not Gillis' initial asking price of Gardiner/1st/Frattin/Bozak.
: Other teams are willing to give more for Luongo, but the Canucks are just choosing to ignore them?

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:45 PM
  #938
ThirdManIn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
clarification

in the deal that was last put forward Both fan basis are rejecting the trade mostly due to the addition of each of the said d-men that have been added to the deal and the discussion is about what each brings to the table and how a change of teams could help either one? But we can not discuss that?


As I said, adding those two to the deal is a push, both are on bad contracts for what they are doing and it is a question to be asked who has the worse contract based upon performance over the past two seasons
We're not letting this turn into a pissing match between fans over which of the so-called "garbage" d-men is less "garbage". It's not happening. Like I said, if Ballard or whomever else is included in a deal, fine. Discuss them as a part of the deal, but entirely too much conversation has been going on that is strictly about Ballard. These posts don't even mention a single word about the actual topic of the thread, and I have enough experience on this site to know when a thread is being derailed.

If you all would like to have a separate thread to compare whichever players you'd like to compare, that's fine. It would be a good thread for the NHL Talk or Poll forums. If you'd like to create some Value Of threads, that's fine, too. In this thread we need to keep our discussion of others players within the context of the thread itself, not go off on tangents.

I responded to this in-thread to clear up any questions other might have, but in the future, guys, please send questions about a mod warning to that moderator via PM.

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
: Other teams are willing to give more for Luongo, but the Canucks are just choosing to ignore them?
Unless Gillis lowers his asking price, yes.

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10-20-2012, 01:12 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Petrovic
Matthias
1st

FOR
Luongo

Someone said that Florida fans agreed on it, so seeing if they do.
I'd do it for our empty cupboard of prospects.

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Old
10-20-2012, 01:23 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Unless Gillis lowers his asking price, yes.
That makes zero sense: "13 teams are offering me more for a player, but I'll just choose to negotiate with this one."

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10-20-2012, 01:24 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't think it's been discussed yet, but with the clause in the proposed CBA that would allow us to pay up to 3 mil of Luongo's salary, the NYI might be interested in him. Nabokov would make an ideal backup to Cory, although I'm not to familiar with what kind of pieces they have available.
But would Lou agree to go there? Because of his NTC plenty of teams who could use him are eliminated form the discussion right from the outset.

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10-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
As noted below, nice cherry picking of quotes, also how did he almost cost his team a gold medal? This is one of the bigest myths in hockey. Like I said if you don't like him fine, if you don't want him fine. But more people than just Canuck fans, including paid professionals would disagree with you.
How did he almost cost his team a gold medal? Read the 2014 Olympics Thread: All of Canada held it's breath when Luongo was forced to make a save (one specifically pointed out by a Luongo apologist was on an easy shot in OT). It's not a myth: It's fact pointed out by simply watching him play.

The professionals seemed to point out the uncertainty in goal for Canada before the tournament started.

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10-20-2012, 01:27 PM
  #944
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But would Lou agree to go there? Because of his NTC plenty of teams who could use him are eliminated form the discussion right from the outset.
Lui has not said no to any team at this point, my guess is there is no team he would not consider. I also think he would consider some more than others. But we can't discount say CBJ. Maybe down the road we can, but not right now.

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10-20-2012, 01:30 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
That makes zero sense: "13 teams are offering me more for a player, but I'll just choose to negotiate with this one."
No, I'm saying that even though other teams are offering more, Gillis hasn't pulled the trigger because of his high asking price.

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Old
10-20-2012, 01:31 PM
  #946
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He was terrible before the 2010 Olympics and nearly cost Canada the win.
I'd love to see one ounce of proof for this ridiculous tripe. Go watch the play again.

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Old
10-20-2012, 01:31 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
How did he almost cost his team a gold medal? Read the 2014 Olympics Thread: All of Canada held it's breath when Luongo was forced to make a save (one specifically pointed out by a Luongo apologist was on an easy shot in OT). It's not a myth: It's fact pointed out by simply watching him play.

The professionals seemed to point out the uncertainty in goal for Canada before the tournament started.
How does people not having faith in him almost cost them? Did he get the job done? Did he steel the job away from an aging Brodeur? I can agree overall he was outplayed by Miller in the Olympics, hell that season, but he did well, actually well enough to win. Don't come back at me with but his defense was so good, especially not when the tying goal was entirely the defences fault.

Do you remember the save off of Demitra?

Just cause you don't have faith doesn't mean they almost cost someone something.

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10-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #948
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LOL, This morning Damian Cox of that "Toronto Media" is saying the asking price for Luongo is Gardiner Frattin a first rounder and Tyler Bozak.

No, Cox was saying that was the asking price at the draft but that the price has come down since then:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...st-not-yet-cox

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Old
10-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #949
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No, I'm saying that even though other teams are offering more, Gillis hasn't pulled the trigger because of his high asking price.
Linkity...link??

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10-20-2012, 01:33 PM
  #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
take out komi nucks take out Ballard
The way i see it is

To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri
Is a bit unfair for the Leafs.Nucks win this deal but if you throw in Komi and Ballard than it makes it fair for both teams.Yes Ballard is a little bit better than Komi.Contracts are almost the same money wise and term wise.
so
To Tor- Luongo, Raymond and Ballard
To Van- Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri and Komi
Fair for both teams

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