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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
10-19-2012, 12:31 AM
  #501
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't know how anyone can leave Luongo off the team, the guy won gold for us as our goalie in 2010. Meanwhile someone like Cam Ward has looked bad in international competition, even as recently as this year.
It couldn't be because Canucks fans overrate him, could it? Nah!

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10-19-2012, 12:34 AM
  #502
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Toews.is a guarantee at Centre
What makes you say that?

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10-19-2012, 02:07 AM
  #503
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What makes you say that?
what other position do you think Toews' would be playing. He has no experience at wing...and i can only hope you don't think he wouldn't be on the team.

re: Dion Phaneuf. i'm pretty sure he'll make the team - i'm also sure that when he's on the team will loom large - but sadly he'll be in Russia.

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10-19-2012, 04:17 AM
  #504
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what other position do you think Toews' would be playing. He has no experience at wing...and i can only hope you don't think he wouldn't be on the team.

re: Dion Phaneuf. i'm pretty sure he'll make the team - i'm also sure that when he's on the team will loom large - but sadly he'll be in Russia.


heaven help us.... but I think you are wrong... not that this is much of an upgrade, but HC is higher on Bouwmeester than Phanuef... They talked of him glowingly after the WC last spring... personally I hope neither one ever sees a Team Canada sweater at an Olympics, but of the two, and if HC is dead set upon making this difficult, then take Bouwmeester. Hockey Canada really does have a death wish to consider these two, especially Phanuef...who is a complete waste of space between the ears... the guy gets chirped at an allstar game...you know you are disliked and not respected by your peers when even Hartnell is chirping you at an all-star game...

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10-19-2012, 08:49 AM
  #505
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heaven help us.... but I think you are wrong... not that this is much of an upgrade, but HC is higher on Bouwmeester than Phanuef... They talked of him glowingly after the WC last spring... personally I hope neither one ever sees a Team Canada sweater at an Olympics, but of the two, and if HC is dead set upon making this difficult, then take Bouwmeester. Hockey Canada really does have a death wish to consider these two, especially Phanuef...who is a complete waste of space between the ears... the guy gets chirped at an allstar game...you know you are disliked and not respected by your peers when even Hartnell is chirping you at an all-star game...
There's no way Phaneuf makes this team. Don't worry about it. We have many better options, and Yzerman and Hockey Canada know it.

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10-19-2012, 09:32 AM
  #506
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1) I dont see Giroux and Crosby playing with one another

2) I think Taylor Hall is too young for 2014 and Eberle too but reserves, I can see Skinner getting the call though.

3) I dk why you guys all hate Dion Phanuef... Im sure its cuz hes in Toronto and its either biased or that hes always under the limelight. I think hes a great defender, powerful and strong. He didnt seem to do Canada to much harm in the 2012 WC... He was a +1 in the final game you lost to Slovakia, he put up 2 points too. In 8 games he put up 2 points and hes known as a defensive stay at home defender. He only had 2 PIM too, and in some games I checked out he was a +. I think he will be one of 8 defenders being looked at and he will play and do well.


Stamkos- Crosby- Seguin
Nash- Toews- Richards
Benn/Skinner- Getzlaf- Perry
Lucic/Eberle- Bergeron/Thornton- Heatly

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10-19-2012, 09:47 AM
  #507
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1) I dont see Giroux and Crosby playing with one another

2) I think Taylor Hall is too young for 2014 and Eberle too but reserves, I can see Skinner getting the call though.

3) I dk why you guys all hate Dion Phanuef... Im sure its cuz hes in Toronto and its either biased or that hes always under the limelight. I think hes a great defender, powerful and strong. He didnt seem to do Canada to much harm in the 2012 WC... He was a +1 in the final game you lost to Slovakia, he put up 2 points too. In 8 games he put up 2 points and hes known as a defensive stay at home defender. He only had 2 PIM too, and in some games I checked out he was a +. I think he will be one of 8 defenders being looked at and he will play and do well.


Stamkos- Crosby- Seguin
Nash- Toews- Richards
Benn/Skinner- Getzlaf- Perry
Lucic/Eberle- Bergeron/Thornton- Heatly
So you remove Giroux from the team because he and Crosby have issues? Ridiculous; he's one of our best 3 forwards. Worse case is you put them on different lines and PP units - no big deal. And where's Tavares? He'll be a top-6 forward for us without question. Lucic? He'd be terrible on the larger ice surface. Thornton and Heatley simply aren't / won't be good enough in 2014 to play in the Olympics, and we have several better options available.

As far as Phaneuf goes, don't be so sure that we're against him making Team Canada because "he plays in Toronto". He's simply not a very good defenceman, at least in terms of the Olympic context. The tools are there, but the decision-making is very weak. Again, we have several much better options.

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10-19-2012, 10:10 AM
  #508
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As a Leaf fan who hates Phaneuf hate...... hes not at the Olympic level.

The thing with Phanuef is that he has the tools. Big shot, can pinch in the rush, decent puck skills, makes a good hard pass. However, his backwards skating can get exposed, and of course he is prone to just getting beat for speed. I still think Phaneuf is a game changing defenceman, but when we have guys like Weber, we dont really need him

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10-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #509
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what other position do you think Toews' would be playing. He has no experience at wing...and i can only hope you don't think he wouldn't be on the team.
I thought he did have experience on the wing: Iirc it's one of the reasons people wanted the Penguins to take him over Staal.

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10-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #510
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I'm with ya 100%
Yeah, that looks about right for D.

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10-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I thought he did have experience on the wing: Iirc it's one of the reasons people wanted the Penguins to take him over Staal.
Toews is versatile and skilled enough that he can play wing (and in fact I think he played LW a bit in 2010 on Crosby's line when we were still figuring out who to play up there with him), but I think we'd want him at center to better utilize his entire skillset. Like in 2010, Richards is a better candidate to move over to the wing, same for Giroux and Tavares. Eric Staal too, if he makes the team.

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10-19-2012, 03:15 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
What makes you say that?
He's led the league in faceoff percentage (well, at least among likely Team Canada candidates) two years in a row. That coupled with his keen defensive ability makes him a lock as a centre (probably third line centre).

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10-19-2012, 03:59 PM
  #513
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So you remove Giroux from the team because he and Crosby have issues? Ridiculous; he's one of our best 3 forwards. Worse case is you put them on different lines and PP units - no big deal. And where's Tavares? He'll be a top-6 forward for us without question. Lucic? He'd be terrible on the larger ice surface. Thornton and Heatley simply aren't / won't be good enough in 2014 to play in the Olympics, and we have several better options available.

As far as Phaneuf goes, don't be so sure that we're against him making Team Canada because "he plays in Toronto". He's simply not a very good defenceman, at least in terms of the Olympic context. The tools are there, but the decision-making is very weak. Again, we have several much better options.
Do you remember that "fight" between Crosby and Mike Richards ? They were on the Canadian olympic team together, they played together on the same line, though it was just for one game.

To be honest, I would put Giroux into the second line, but I'm sure he could be on the same power-play unit with Crosby and Stamkos.

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10-19-2012, 05:13 PM
  #514
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Do you remember that "fight" between Crosby and Mike Richards ? They were on the Canadian olympic team together, they played together on the same line, though it was just for one game.

To be honest, I would put Giroux into the second line, but I'm sure he could be on the same power-play unit with Crosby and Stamkos.
Canada has had many instances of players coexisting in spite of NHL issues. I doubt that the Bruins and Canadiens got along in 1976, and we know that the Oilers and Islanders didn't get along in 1984, but they still came together and won. I agree with your assessment though, just put Crosby and Giroux on different lines. Even if they have to play together, it's not like they're going to refuse to pass to each other or something.

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10-19-2012, 10:47 PM
  #515
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So you remove Giroux from the team because he and Crosby have issues? Ridiculous; he's one of our best 3 forwards. Worse case is you put them on different lines and PP units - no big deal. And where's Tavares? He'll be a top-6 forward for us without question. Lucic? He'd be terrible on the larger ice surface. Thornton and Heatley simply aren't / won't be good enough in 2014 to play in the Olympics, and we have several better options available.

As far as Phaneuf goes, don't be so sure that we're against him making Team Canada because "he plays in Toronto". He's simply not a very good defenceman, at least in terms of the Olympic context. The tools are there, but the decision-making is very weak. Again, we have several much better options.
Calm yourself... I messed up, i have Giroux in my 5 other posts. I messed up, easy to do since he was not on the 2010 roster and they have sooo many stars.

I never said because he plays in Toronto he wont make the team, i said I think because hes in the Toronto he gets the most scrutiny. You say hes not a very good d-men, but thats simply not true. There is a reason why he was one of the d-men in Canada camp for 2010 and why he is on the roster for the WC. He had a crazy rookie year and a lot of people were for him, since he focused more defensively and his stats went down and now people are against him. He was so close top making the Canada 2010 team that if Scott Niedermeyer retired one year earlier you probably would have had Phanuef. If one more injury occurred, he was on it.


Thornton and Heatley will not be easy to jus get rid of. They embody what I believe is the classic Canadian style and physique. The game they had against Germany shows this perfectly, a complete 3 giant men in red cycling the offensive zone like its a pond game. Maybe Thornton will lose his spot, he only had 2 points in 7 games, he still played well but I dont think it will be easy... His experience and size alone is huge for a team like Canada, but it is international size. I watched some of 2 Canada games plus the entire finals and Heatly was less noticable but he had 7 points in 7 games. I think he can still be of great use and he will be on the team.

So were replacing Morrow, Marlaeu, Thornton, Iginla with Stamkos, Giroux, Benn and I think maybe Staal. If there is another replacement then I can see Skinner but for now I do not.

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10-20-2012, 03:09 PM
  #516
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Another Leafs fan saying Phaneuf won't make it. Doesn't mean he's not good. He's just not Team Canada good in my opinion. Time will tell.

Keith
Weber
Doughty
M.Staal
Pietrangelo
Letang
Seabrook

In no order, are all defenseman that I would take over Dion, and there's more that are right around him that you could make a case for.

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10-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #517
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For every Toronto fan out there who doesnt like him on Team Canada ive met a person who thinks he can make the team.

Actually being from Toronto and being a fan of the Maple Leafs is exactly what I meant when I said hes under crazy attention under there. You guys expected him to be more or something else, and hes not.

Idk if Marc Staal would make this roster, def a reserve and injury but i dont see it if all your best are out there. As a Ranger fan, hes good but not Canada good as you would say. Idk why you wouldnt want the guy whose led Team Canada or was on Team Canada for the past few WC.

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10-20-2012, 04:36 PM
  #518
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I do respect Canadas ability to put bull**** behind them and represent their country. idk which was worse and how things got handled with Crosby and Richards but i feel Giroux and Crosby r having a bigger fued...

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10-20-2012, 04:47 PM
  #519
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Another Leafs fan saying Phaneuf won't make it. Doesn't mean he's not good. He's just not Team Canada good in my opinion. Time will tell.

Keith
Weber
Doughty
M.Staal
Pietrangelo
Letang
Seabrook

In no order, are all defenseman that I would take over Dion, and there's more that are right around him that you could make a case for.

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10-20-2012, 04:51 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
For every Toronto fan out there who doesnt like him on Team Canada ive met a person who thinks he can make the team.

Actually being from Toronto and being a fan of the Maple Leafs is exactly what I meant when I said hes under crazy attention under there. You guys expected him to be more or something else, and hes not.

Idk if Marc Staal would make this roster, def a reserve and injury but i dont see it if all your best are out there. As a Ranger fan, hes good but not Canada good as you would say. Idk why you wouldnt want the guy whose led Team Canada or was on Team Canada for the past few WC.
Are we speaking of Phaneuf: The guy who "led" Team Canada to not even fourth place?

Marc Staal is better than Dion Phaneuf.

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10-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #521
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I do respect Canadas ability to put bull**** behind them and represent their country. idk which was worse and how things got handled with Crosby and Richards but i feel Giroux and Crosby r having a bigger fued...
The 1984 Canadian team at the Canada Cup had 4 Islanders and 8 Oilers, two teams that had just played in the finals consecutively and hated each other. Lots of these guys were in big roles on Canada too. They didn't get along at all, and Canada started off slowly, but ended up winning. That feud was a lot bigger than whatever might exist between Crosby and Giroux.

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Idk if Marc Staal would make this roster, def a reserve and injury but i dont see it if all your best are out there. As a Ranger fan, hes good but not Canada good as you would say. Idk why you wouldnt want the guy whose led Team Canada or was on Team Canada for the past few WC.
One of the more common defence groups in this thread is as follows:

Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Keith, Letang, Seabrook, Staal.

To me, those first five guys are very likely locks. Let's look at what they give Canada. Weber is quite possibly the best defenceman in the world. Dougty, Keith, Pietrangelo and Letang are all very adept puck movers and ensure that Canada's defence will be highly mobile as at least one should be on each pairing. All of those can also play big PP minutes, meaning that realistically no one else is needed in this role.

What does Canada need out of the remaining two defencemen? Mainly defensive ability. Guys who can pick up shifts on the PK and who can be trusted to provide a solid shift when called upon. Seabrook and Staal are both decisively better than Phaneuf when it comes to defence. There are numerous other Canadian defencemen who are also better defensively. Another issue is skating, which is of greater importance in 2014. Staal is definitely a better skater than Phaneuf. Phaneuf is better offensively, but really there is no need for Phaneuf in any kind of offensive role with the five guys listed above. Seabrook is a comparable skater, but is better positionally, has chemistry with Keith and also has experience (minimal though it is) at the Olympics.

Phaneuf is a good defenceman, but Canada will very likely have more than 7 defencemen better than him in 2014. Even in the case of defencemen of similar value, Phaneuf's skillset is not as valuable as most on international ice. Even if we did need a Phaneuf type player, we already have Weber who can do all the Phaneuf things at a higher level. One advantage for Phaneuf is that he shoots left, which only Keith does among the very best Canadian defencemen. Even then, there are quite a few guys battling for the last few spots like Staal, Hamhuis, or Alzner who also shoot left.

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10-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #522
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Not to pick on you - LOL - but you can't line those six forwards up together on an international ice surface - they'd get eaten alive. In terms of skating ability:

Heatley - poor
Perry - mediocre to poor
Getzlaf - mediocre (for a center)
Benn - decent @ wing, mediocre @ center
Eberle - average
Giroux - average

Heatley should be nowhere near this team. Same for Thornton. The other five may very make it (Giroux is a lock, Eberle is a near-lock, Perry and Getzlaf are 50-50, and Benn is a bit of a longshot), but if they do they'll need to be lined-up with faster skaters. Ironically, the guy you gave the least consideration to, Marleau, is probably the one best positioned to be an asset on the 2014 with his speed and special teams ability.
That's the first time I've ever heard anyone question any of those players skating ability. None of those players you mentioned are poor skaters, or even medicore skaters. They're all at the very least good skaters (Not being elite does not equal being medicore or poor), and the only one up that definitely won't make the team is Heatley, and his skating isn't the reason he's not going to make the team.

By you're considerations, Morrow - Getzlaf - Perry would be a horrible skating line yet they were arguably Canada's most effective line last olympics (Even if they weren't the most productive).

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10-20-2012, 10:29 PM
  #523
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The 1984 Canadian team at the Canada Cup had 4 Islanders and 8 Oilers, two teams that had just played in the finals consecutively and hated each other. Lots of these guys were in big roles on Canada too. They didn't get along at all, and Canada started off slowly, but ended up winning. That feud was a lot bigger than whatever might exist between Crosby and Giroux.



One of the more common defence groups in this thread is as follows:

Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Keith, Letang, Seabrook, Staal.

To me, those first five guys are very likely locks. Let's look at what they give Canada. Weber is quite possibly the best defenceman in the world. Dougty, Keith, Pietrangelo and Letang are all very adept puck movers and ensure that Canada's defence will be highly mobile as at least one should be on each pairing. All of those can also play big PP minutes, meaning that realistically no one else is needed in this role.

What does Canada need out of the remaining two defencemen? Mainly defensive ability. Guys who can pick up shifts on the PK and who can be trusted to provide a solid shift when called upon. Seabrook and Staal are both decisively better than Phaneuf when it comes to defence. There are numerous other Canadian defencemen who are also better defensively. Another issue is skating, which is of greater importance in 2014. Staal is definitely a better skater than Phaneuf. Phaneuf is better offensively, but really there is no need for Phaneuf in any kind of offensive role with the five guys listed above. Seabrook is a comparable skater, but is better positionally, has chemistry with Keith and also has experience (minimal though it is) at the Olympics.

Phaneuf is a good defenceman, but Canada will very likely have more than 7 defencemen better than him in 2014. Even in the case of defencemen of similar value, Phaneuf's skillset is not as valuable as most on international ice. Even if we did need a Phaneuf type player, we already have Weber who can do all the Phaneuf things at a higher level. One advantage for Phaneuf is that he shoots left, which only Keith does among the very best Canadian defencemen. Even then, there are quite a few guys battling for the last few spots like Staal, Hamhuis, or Alzner who also shoot left.
I don't intend to nullify your point because I agree with what you say, but I find the mentioning of Alzner's name slightly odd: The guy is a good, young defenceman with potential, but I don't think he'll be on Team Canada.

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10-20-2012, 10:52 PM
  #524
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I don't intend to nullify your point because I agree with what you say, but I find the mentioning of Alzner's name slightly odd: The guy is a good, young defenceman with potential, but I don't think he'll be on Team Canada.
I don't think he will either, but I am high on Alzner. I can see him being one of the best defensive defencemen in the world by 2014 to be honest, and he is a good skater. He has very little chance to be on Team Canada, but of course the same can be said for Phaneuf.

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10-20-2012, 11:00 PM
  #525
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I think Morrow replaced by Stamkos
I think Marlaeu replaced by Giroux
I think Thornton replaced by Benn
I think Iginla replaced by Seguin

Crosby- Stamkos- Giroux
Toews-Nash-Richards
Getzlaf-Perry-Benn
Bergeron-Seguin-E. Staal

I really have no idea if I want Benn or Staal. Jordan. Im sure most of u will want Jordan, i really dont know. I think it will be down to these two... Size for a big reason. After them Canada will prob be looking at Skinner or Eberle.

It will come down for the next few years, lets see who grows.


Defense... idk i really think it will be down to keith or Phanuef and one way or another hes on his way to wearing the maple leaf. He might go to Russia as a 6 def. I dont see Marc Staal getting yet

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