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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:06 PM
  #76
FAMOUSfin
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
in situations where one team takes back a lot of money for an older player, like luongo's contract, the value returning usually isnt that great. look what the cancucks gave up for booth. pretty much nothing.
Canucks gave up an aging but good top 6 forward and had to take a salary dump the other way.

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10-20-2012, 07:06 PM
  #77
Vankiller Whale
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Goalie market <<<<<< forward market
All it takes is two teams to make a market.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:09 PM
  #78
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All it takes is two teams to make a market.
Yes, a much smaller market than the amount of teams that would be interested in a forward. You seem to have confused my multiple "lesser than" signs with some sort of indication that there is NO goalie market.

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10-20-2012, 07:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
I expect Kulemin to be included. I think Kulemin + Bozak would be a good package for the Nucks.

Daniel-Henrik-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kulemin
Higgins-Bozak-Raymond
Volpatti-Lapierre-Kassian

That's one hell of a deep forward group.
Wheres Hansen and Malhotra?

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10-20-2012, 07:10 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There is one key minor difference.

Luongo>>>>>>>>>Booth
but luongo's contract is way bigger. and there are a lot more spots for booth to play than luongo

im not saying luongo will return similar to what booth did. he will get a useful return, but there's no way the canucks get the type of return that should be given for a player like him.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:11 PM
  #81
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Yes, a much smaller market than the amount of teams that would be interested in a forward. You seem to have confused my multiple "lesser than" signs with some sort of indication that there is NO goalie market.
There is no difference between a market of 29 teams or two teams, neither team would want to pass up an opportunity to improve their team unless it gets to the point where it's not worth it anymore.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:11 PM
  #82
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Wrong. Burke has made a few mistakes (in hindsight - like all GMs) but for the large part has brought vast improvement to the franchise in terms of incoming/outgoing personnel. That the failure of the on ice product rests on the shoulder of the GM is a laughable misconception. It can be more justifiably focused on special teams, coaching, goaltending, and the general confounding factors (pressure, media idiocy, fans unrealistic expectations) of Toronto.
Who do you think is in charge of making sure the team has good goaltending and good coaching? I hate Ron Wilson but when you give a coach goalies like Toskala/Giguere(washed up)/Reimer/Gustavsson, what do you expect is going to happen?
He's been using a blueprint to try and build a playoff contender every year he's been in Toronto and when you do that for so long and don't make the playoffs, you end up in the same position he's now. Not sure how you can even defend how bad of a job he's done. He came from Anaheim thinking he was the king of hockey because he won a cup and the hockey gods have punished him for it.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There is no difference between a market of 29 teams or two teams, neither team would want to pass up an opportunity to improve their team unless it gets to the point where it's not worth it anymore.
I see that basic business concepts are not your forte. We'll just end this exchange here if that bolded statement is what you truly believe.

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10-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #84
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I'm assuming Malhotra lost the steel cage match to Volpatti for a roster spot?
Totally forgot about him. Obviously this is extremely insignificant, but watching Malhotra at the charity game was painful. Just brutal all around, couldn't take a pass or make a shot. Just shows he needs to put in a lot of work before he gets back to an NHL level (although I have no doubt he will do it).

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10-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #85
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There is no difference between a market of 29 teams or two teams, neither team would want to pass up an opportunity to improve their team unless it gets to the point where it's not worth it anymore.
No difference? Is this a joke?

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10-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
There is no difference between a market of 29 teams or two teams, neither team would want to pass up an opportunity to improve their team unless it gets to the point where it's not worth it anymore.
and reports out of toronto and florida pretty much indicate they are not going to give up a whole lot for him right? no bjugstad, no gardiner. no big package from the leafs at the draft.

i guess i shouldnt say "a whole lot" because i can see kadri going back and i consider that a big asset

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10-20-2012, 07:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Troy and Abed View Post
We have absolutely zero need for Connolly or his brutal contract.
In all fairness Connolly could
- Center line 2 in Keslers absense
- Center our 2nd PP unit full time
- Be our 3C for the season
- Be used as the 2nd PK unit center (weight off Kesler)
- Possibly be used as a playmaker on the 2nd line (Kes at wing or center).

More than anything he could be a buy-low candidate with little to no risk who fills some needs on the roster.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Totally forgot about him. Obviously this is extremely insignificant, but watching Malhotra at the charity game was painful. Just brutal all around, couldn't take a pass or make a shot. Just shows he needs to put in a lot of work before he gets back to an NHL level (although I have no doubt he will do it).
Or maybe it was just a charity game...

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:16 PM
  #89
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No difference? Is this a joke?
I hope so

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
and reports out of toronto and florida pretty much indicate they are not going to give up a whole lot for him right? no bjugstad, no gardiner. no big package from the leafs at the draft.

i guess i shouldnt say "a whole lot" because i can see kadri going back and i consider that a big asset
I'm not expecting a humoungus return, simply a decent one.

If either Gardiner or JvR, or two of Kadri/1st/Kulemin are involved, I would be satisfied.

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10-20-2012, 07:18 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Totally forgot about him. Obviously this is extremely insignificant, but watching Malhotra at the charity game was painful. Just brutal all around, couldn't take a pass or make a shot. Just shows he needs to put in a lot of work before he gets back to an NHL level (although I have no doubt he will do it).
Seeing as how Schneider played at the charity game we really shouldn't be having this discussion about trading luongo at all.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm not expecting a humoungus return, simply a decent one.

If either Gardiner or JvR, or two of Kadri/1st/Kulemin are involved, I would be satisfied.
lol

Get some tissues ready

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10-20-2012, 07:19 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I think Lu will be a pretty good goalie for 2-3 more years. Heres some proposals from a neutral fan
What makes you think Luongo only has 2-3 more years?

In 2 years he will be Kippers age (Miikka is nowhere near done, I bet he gets a 3-5 year extension at big dollars), in 5 years he will be Thomas' age, and in 7 years he will be Brodeur's age.

These are the same BS arguments that Boston fans were hearing about Thomas 2 years ago...hell some HF posters were saying that if the Bruins wanted to trade Thomas they'd need to add picks to dump him.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:49 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I'm not expecting a humoungus return, simply a decent one.

If either Gardiner or JvR, or two of Kadri/1st/Kulemin are involved, I would be satisfied.
i doubt you are going to be satisfied then, that a lot from torontos point of view to give up

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:51 PM
  #95
Vankiller Whale
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i doubt you are going to be satisfied then, that a lot from torontos point of view to give up
They'd be getting a player who will be a lot more impactful than what they'd be giving up.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:55 PM
  #96
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/hocke...745/story.html

Here's a little article; nothing new, but gives a nice summary.

So apparently teams that are interested are:
Toronto
Florida
Edmonton
Chicago
Columbus

and a mystery team. Not sure who it would be. Long shot suitors in my mind would be Washington, Ottawa, Philly, or the Islanders.

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10-20-2012, 08:10 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/hocke...745/story.html

Here's a little article; nothing new, but gives a nice summary.

So apparently teams that are interested are:
Toronto
Florida
Edmonton
Chicago
Columbus

and a mystery team. Not sure who it would be. Long shot suitors in my mind would be Washington, Ottawa, Philly, or the Islanders.
Ah Mystery Team. I swear reporters just put that in to cover there butts or gain readers.

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Old
10-20-2012, 08:25 PM
  #98
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It's funny but I'd be willing to bet 98% of the people out east commenting on how good they think Luo is, or what he's worth, or how long he will be a good goalie for watch less then 5 Canuck games a year. This would be like me claiming to be an expert of making a couscous soufflé with a chestnut reduction topped a scallop broth inspired angle haired pasta stuffed pasta shell, simply because I watched a season of Hell's Kitchen.


Anyone who seriously watches the Canucks, listens to Un biased media, can read Luo's achievements would know this is one of the best goalies in the world. NOT only that, great goalies close to never hit the market. The normal return for even a marginal goalie is usually an over payment. Furthurmore Luo's cap hit is very good and below a number of other goalies in the league that aren't as good as luongo.

It's also funny how people are so concerned about how much actual dollars the owners are paying him... Like all of a sudden we have bleeding hearts for these greedy billionaire owners and we want them to Pennie pinch and not spend more then they have to. It doesn't matter to me if they're paying more for a player as long as he benefits the team.

And to end this off, even though Luo wants a change of scenery Vancouver is not a team that will commence a fire sale. They're in a position of power not weakness. They will not give away a goalie like Luo for some of the league worst teams tweener 2nd 3rd liners.

Luo should and most likely will consist of a 1st round pick, a good prospect and a depth player, and no matter how much you tell yourself Luo sucks and he's not worth more then a 2nd round pick and a happy meal, he would turn a poor team into a playoff team right away...which is more then you can say for Gardiner, a pick or whatever else...

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10-20-2012, 08:28 PM
  #99
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Wrong. Burke has made a few mistakes (in hindsight - like all GMs) but for the large part has brought vast improvement to the franchise in terms of incoming/outgoing personnel. That the failure of the on ice product rests on the shoulder of the GM is a laughable misconception. It can be more justifiably focused on special teams, coaching, goaltending, and the general confounding factors (pressure, media idiocy, fans unrealistic

expectations) of Toronto. Not to mention the oft-ignored factor of pure chance that is inherent in sports.

He has brought in highly acclaimed hockey men (coaching, special team coaches, etc.) for all of these suffering departments that all objective critics lauded when they first happened. These experienced and renowned coaches and hockey minds didn't work out. This is not Brian Burke's fault. Your statement makes an erroneous association between his position as a GM and the success of his on-ice product.
The only thing laughable here is how much slack Burke gets from fans on the job he's actually done.

The personnel he's changed over - whether that's been positive or not can only be measured in results. Anything else is subjective, based on assumptions and hope of what could happen in the future. The reality is that Burke took over a bottom end team 4 years ago, and they're still a bottom end team now. This is a team that has just posted back to back 13th place conference finishes! isn't it a GM's job to produce results? If the team is rebuilding, isn't it his job to show upward movement? And this doesn't even consider Burke's own comments which have blown up in his face - you know the "we are not rebuilding only retooling as the market won't allow for a rebuild there" ... Well 4 yrs into "retooling" and most fans still consider the team rebuilding.

The Leafs sucked before Burke got there, but 4 yrs later what has changed? They still suck and have shown no upward mobility as a franchise. The only thing people still hold on to as a positive is a bunch of maybes and a whole lot of hope. But at the end of the day EVERY GM in the league is evaluated on results. Even a bottom end team needs to show some movement towards respectability over a 4 year cycle. Not Burke. Apparently he can screw up in his own "retooling" plan, stay at the bottom of the conference year after year, and still be given a free ride from fans talking about how he's changed so much there despite having the worst point totals of any team in the league since he came into his job as GM there.

Personally, I'm surprised how much slack Burke gets there. Most organizations fire their GM when they go 4 yrs into their term without seeing the playoffs, while not even seeing the team rise in the standings at all. You'd think in a diehard hockey market he'd have even more pressure, but not in TO. He can fail in what he publicly set out to do, have the team even further from the playoffs now then when he first took over, and fans will still be talking about him as if he's a great GM. I guess he's lucky being in Toronto. Most other organizations would evaluate him based on results, only in TO he's evaluated based on the hope results may one day come... And that too 4 yrs into his term (where he's posted a bigger losing percentage than any other GM in the league), and 7 yrs into the franchise living in the basement. How much longer does Burke have in his once retooling, now rebuilding plan? They're going to go 5 yrs under him without a playoff spot before he's fired? 6? 7? How much slack does he have before hope and maybes are no longer enough and his future will depend on actual results?

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Old
10-20-2012, 08:36 PM
  #100
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Ah Mystery Team. I swear reporters just put that in to cover there butts or gain readers.
Toronto is Toronto... But the mystery team could be any team! It could even be Toronto!

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