From the time JD was hired in St L they went from 57 pts (I think) to over 100 last year.
From the time Howson was hired to last year the Jackets regressed to the worst team in the league.
How could anyone argue that bringing Davidson here would be bad?
I am all in favor of bring in JD, even if he decides to remove Scott Howson.
But you distort his record a bit, the CBJ have had their highest point totals under him (SH) and last years finish is more the result of an incredible amount of injuries including over 100 man games lost in goal.
Howson has made mistakes. I thought Arniel was a good choice, it was not. The Nash ordeal was not handled well. Certainly pluses and minuses, but overall the Jackets are and have been a better team than under Doug.
We may never know what the dynamics have been in the front office to this date and we can only guess what they might be under Davidson, but with or without GMSH it will be an improvement.
Hockey-smart people like John Davidson know all of the facts anyhow. He knows what we have in our system, especially coming from the Blues, where he likely scouted our system as much as our own brass did, if nothing else but to get a feel for what the future competition was.
...and yet we have Nikita Nikitin, and they have Kris Russell.
Howson has made mistakes. I thought Arniel was a good choice, it was not. The Nash ordeal was not handled well. Certainly pluses and minuses, but overall the Jackets are and have been a better team than under Doug.
This is part of why I'm pretty forgiving of Howson despite no longer being in the "no, you just can't fire him" crowd. That and the fact that it would have taken a turnaround of Lou Lamoriello proportions to make something out of what MacLean left behind. He's had too many of his own self-driven screwups, though.
I still think he's capable of getting the job done. I no longer have faith that it's likely, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee
...and yet we have Nikita Nikitin, and they have Kris Russell.
You don't question the future HoF coach.
even if he's being crazy
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Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
...and yet we have Nikita Nikitin, and they have Kris Russell.
So base his entire tenure - including improving a league-worst 57 point team to a top of the conference team - on one one-for-one trade, dealing away a guy who was a depth defenseman and getting a depth defenseman in return.
So base his entire tenure - including improving a league-worst 57 point team to a top of the conference team - on one one-for-one trade, dealing away a guy who was a depth defenseman and getting a depth defenseman in return.
Terrible guy, no hockey sense at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah
I guess the President of Hockey Operations makes all player moves. Was there something we were trying to prove?
The statement was that Davidson probably scouted the CBJ roster and farm system extensively. I pointed out that, despite that knowledge, a deal was made that involved gaining a defenseman who, in five NHL seasons, had shown minimal progress toward putting his game together. In the process, they gave up someone who had clear talent but was still adjusting to the North American game.
Now, it's entirely possible that Russell is one of those "Hitchcock guys", who he feels some bizarre and illogical attachment to. Mike Keenan had a few of them, notably Brian Noonan, and several other coaches have them as well. If Hitchcock ends up somewhere else, we'll only know in the event that Russell goes there shortly afterward.
The statement was that Davidson probably scouted the CBJ roster and farm system extensively. I pointed out that, despite that knowledge, a deal was made that involved gaining a defenseman who, in five NHL seasons, had shown minimal progress toward putting his game together. In the process, they gave up someone who had clear talent but was still adjusting to the North American game.
No one thought anything of the deal for Nikitin. It's worked out, for half a season. I don't know anything that thought Niktin was going to produce at the level he has, and I'm 99.99999999% sure Howson didn't think it would work out this well to this point. It makes no difference to anything in this conversation. It doesn't prove anything about Davidson's abilities or lack there of. It certainly doesn't suggest anything about the depth in which Davidson scouted our roster or how well he did. It's a non story. Hell we don't even know what role Davidson even played when the decision was made.
It was considered a trade of 5/6 guys at the time.
The statement was that Davidson probably scouted the CBJ roster and farm system extensively. I pointed out that, despite that knowledge, a deal was made that involved gaining a defenseman who, in five NHL seasons, had shown minimal progress toward putting his game together. In the process, they gave up someone who had clear talent but was still adjusting to the North American game.
Did you used to work with Winston Smith?
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No one thought anything of the deal for Nikitin. It's worked out, for half a season. I don't know anything that thought Niktin was going to produce at the level he has, and I'm 99.99999999% sure Howson didn't think it would work out this well to this point. It makes no difference to anything in this conversation. It doesn't prove anything about Davidson's abilities or lack there of. It certainly doesn't suggest anything about the depth in which Davidson scouted our roster or how well he did. It's a non story. Hell we don't even know what role Davidson even played when the decision was made.
It was considered a trade of 5/6 guys at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé
Did you used to work with Winston Smith?
Hold on, I'm confused here. If the last few months have taught me anything, it's that people higher than the GM need to get credit because they orchestrate the good moves, while the GM is supposed to be blasted because he's responsible for the bad moves. But it would stand to reason that both are in some way responsible for making moves in general.
(Stripped-down version: Yes, I know this is woefully inaccurate. This is me taking another soft jab at those who will heap credit on Craig Patrick for everything that happened after he arrived, while throwing gasoline on Howson for everything else. And let's not forget that it's been said a few times that the Nikitin deal was a credit to Patrick, even though he wasn't around at all.)
Also, if I used to work with Winston Smith, there are two possible insinuations. One is that I was captured, sent to Room 101, and eventually purged (after a brief interlude at the Chestnut Tree Cafe). The other is that I'm simply too dumb to think for myself, and therefore stay alive because I don't question anything or wonder anything. Which is it?
Hold on, I'm confused here. If the last few months have taught me anything, it's that people higher than the GM need to get credit because they orchestrate the good moves, while the GM is supposed to be blasted because he's responsible for the bad moves. But it would stand to reason that both are in some way responsible for making moves in general.
(Stripped-down version: Yes, I know this is woefully inaccurate. This is me taking another soft jab at those who will heap credit on Craig Patrick for everything that happened after he arrived, while throwing gasoline on Howson for everything else. And let's not forget that it's been said a few times that the Nikitin deal was a credit to Patrick, even though he wasn't around at all.)
I do not expect the President to have the same level of in depth knowledge of players as the GM. Nikitin for Russell was a nothing move that proves nothing. The President of Hockey operations would be responsible for who the GM is, but I wouldn't expect him to micro-manage transactions. If that were the case there would be no reason to have a GM, thus back to the Dougie days.
The Partick stuff isn't worth talking about or bringing into this. We never knew his exact role and how responsible he was for the moves made after he was hired.
I do not expect the President to have the same level of in depth knowledge of players as the GM. Nikitin for Russell was a nothing move that proves nothing. The President of Hockey operations would be responsible for who the GM is, but I wouldn't expect him to micro-manage transactions. If that were the case there would be no reason to have a GM, thus back to the Dougie days.
The Partick stuff isn't worth talking about or bringing into this. We never knew his exact role and how responsible he was for the moves made after he was hired.
This.
I don't think anyone thought "Nikitin is a top-4 defenseman being wasted sitting in the press box." Nikitin's success thus far has been more a story of what he's worked hard to accomplish, not Howson being "smart."
It takes more than a few (Nikitin, Atkinson) cases of being right before I start giving Howson credit again. And even then Nikitin and Atkinson need to keep it up and not regress.
I don't think anyone thought "Nikitin is a top-4 defenseman being wasted sitting in the press box." Nikitin's success thus far has been more a story of what he's worked hard to accomplish, not Howson being "smart."
But Jeff Carter's dismal failure here is a story of Howson being an idiot, rather than Carter's unwillingness to actually step up and play and be part of the team.
Are MB and I the only ones seeing the double standard in place here?
Are MB and I the only ones seeing the double standard in place here?
You do appear to be the only ones who have chosen to make a crusade of it. Howson's a professional, the opinions here don't concern him nearly as much as they seem to concern you.
But Jeff Carter's dismal failure here is a story of Howson being an idiot, rather than Carter's unwillingness to actually step up and play and be part of the team.
Are MB and I the only ones seeing the double standard in place here?
No, I'm still here.
But the general opinion of GMSH's performance seems to be cast in stone. I will also agree with Pete I doubt he looses a whole lot of sleep over what gets posted on a particular Hockey board. There's an old saying about and for GM's: if you start listening to those in the stands you'll soon be joining them.
Looks as if a protest or two works.... Priest is out Davidson is in... Within a year Howson will be gone too...
Let’s face it the CBJ needed a shakeup... here is the real good news.. This lockout is going to help the Blue Jackets. Johansen is playing first line in the minors and doing well as many others...
