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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-20-2012, 11:37 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I think if Burke is not willing to give up quality, it will probably be a 3-4 piece trade.

Prospect, pick, roster player(kulemin, frattin, bozak)/prospect and cap dump/salary balance (lombardi, macarthur, connolly)

I see it as a combination of those 3 or 4 and if canucks get roster player + cap dump then raymond could very well be going the other way

Maybe

Lombardi, Colbourne, Kadri, 2nd for Luongo

or

Lombardi, Kulemin, Colbourne, 2nd for Luongo, Raymond

or

Connolly, Frattin, Colbourne, 1st for Luongo, Raymond, 2nd
Any dump required in the trade would be followed up with a high value piece to offset this. Seeing as there is very minimal value to start with here, I just don't see a dump contract being there.

Wanna dump salary, look else where. Vancouver only accepts a dump when we are dumping bigger or getting better value. Hoff came with what's his name, and we gave nothing. Booth came with Reinpretch but we were dumping more salary and a very miscast Sturm from our system, while buying low on a player whose been known to be very valuable.

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10-20-2012, 11:41 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Who cares if Schneider is younger? According to you he has 6 elite years left. So why even consider trading him? Could it be that your management has no faith that Luongo can get them back to where they were in 2011? And if they do get back there, can he eliminate what happened in the Chicago and Boston series?
good example of the double standard that most fans see. Luongo is seen as a non-clutch goalie because of his playoff games, yet when he makes clutch plays - like he did against Chicago which could have lost the series otherwise - no one talks about it. He gets zero credit for that.

I'm talking about the OT PP that Chicago had in game 7, where Sharp was allowed to sit wide open right in front of the net, where Luongo makes a clutch save to give his team a chance to win. No one remembers that it seems. But they'll remember his breakdowns clearly, like in the Boston series, while ignoring the fact that he got no goal support at all.

And yes it matters that Schneider is younger when he's as good as he is already. If Luongo has 6 more years of elite level play left, Schneider has 13 years of elite play left. He's that close now and hasn't shown any reason to believe he won't continue to get better. It's not about not having faith in Luongo... it's about having a stud young goalie who's 7 years younger and has shown that the gap in play isn't that big right now, while he's still improving.

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10-20-2012, 11:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Been away from this gong show for a few months because, well, it was getting redundant, but Shannon's words perked my ears up a bit the other day. A few random thoughts:

1) Anyone who thinks Canada won the gold medal in spite of Luongo is nuts. End of story. The way Marty played, one could argue if it wasn't for Lu, we easily could have been beaten by Slovakia. Not saying Luongo didn't win the medal for Canada, but he was not even close to being a liability. That's just ridiculous. Luongo stared down Miller, perhaps the best goalie on the planet at that time, in a gold medal game in his own city with pressure none of us can begin to imagine, and did not blink. It's about time people gave the guy props instead of saying "yeah, but...."

2) JVR, like Gardiner, is not going anywhere. Not until Burke sees what he has there. He isn't going in a trade for Luongo before ever playing a game in Toronto.

3) John Shannon has been to a few rodeos, and he isn't a guy with a history of just making stuff up. I think there is something here. That said, I don't think it is as etched in stone as he hints, and I still think Florida is going to be around at the end. As for Gillis saying "Not true" to the Toronto rumours, um, what else is he supposed to say? "Damn, you got me!"?????

4) As most non-Canuck fans have said for months, Gillis is in dreamland if he thinks he is getting anything close to what he wanted at the draft (according to reports back then, anyway). But a smart GM would do the same thing - start high, then lower your demands if no one bites. That could very well be what is happening right now.

5) I think Gillis may already have a tentative deal in place, whether it is Toronto or someone else, and is just waiting on the new CBA to cross T's and dot I's. The CBA is obviously going to change any return the Canucks get, or what salary they may or may not have to take back.

6) This is really the first time I have heard Bozak in rumours, so again, I think there might be something there. Shannon is really putting himself out there being so sure about his "sources" and he is risking having to wipe a lot of egg off his face. Not sure why he would put himself out there if he didn't have a legitimate source, especially during the dog days of the lockout. So just for ***** and giggles, I am going to post my prediction: Luongo, and no one else, for Bozak, a 2nd and perhaps a dump (depending on CBA) such as Connolly. If this deal is "centered" around Bozak, conventional wisdom says he is about as good as a return as Burke is giving up. Just my two cents....
Agree with everything but 6. I can't for the life of me see Gillis trading Luongo for a soon-to-be UFA 3rd line center. I think if Bozak is involved in the trade he'll just be the roster player thrown into a futures deal.

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:15 AM
  #129
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Nobody seems to remember Luongo saving team Canada's ass against Slovakia do they? Let me remind you.


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Old
10-21-2012, 12:42 AM
  #130
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Different spin on this from the Toronto rumours, but there is thought regarding a mystery team and the Capitals could be an outlying team interested.

Washington
Josh Bailey

New York Islanders
Braden Holtby

Washington gets a solid young center who can replace Ribeiro long term (Backstrom, Johansson, Bailey is a pretty deadly middle). And the Islanders have a wealth of young centers looking to make the jump.

The Islanders get a good young goalie who can play 1A/1B behind Nabokov next year and ease his transition into a solid #1 goalie.

Then

Vancouver
Brooks Laich
Jason Chimera
Joel Ward

Washington
Roberto Luongo
Chris Higgins

So in for Washington - Luongo, Higgins, Bailey
And out for Washington - Laich, Chimera, Ward, Holtby

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Laich
Hansen Lapierre Chimera
Ward Malhotra Raymond


I don't really know how each side feels... I know its a couple fan favorites from Washington, but it definitely is a bit of a shake up for 2 contending teams.

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:46 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Honestly, I really hope burke doesn't deal Kulemin for Luongo. I'm not saying Luongo isn't worth a player like Kulemin but he was one of our best players in 2010; after a poor season I fully expect him to rebound. The guy can play in a top 6 and do the dirty work or he's a very above average 3rd liner. He has chemistry with Grabovski and I would hate to see him go. I would trade JVR before Kulemin but I no that would never happen. Kulemin is a difference maker.
Its sort of the same way with Raymond.

Everyone wants him off the team, and most people don't even include him in their "projected lineup".

At the end of the day, he has just as good of a track record as a "top-6 forward" as guys like Booth, and Higgins.

They also are quick to "dump him for salary" when he only accounts for 3% of a 70 million dollar cap.


Hockey fans have a very "what have you done for me lately" attitude.

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:50 AM
  #132
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Higgins for Laich seems a bit like a lateral move. I love Chimera though. Overall I don't think I would do it, though, as I don't think the value is there. Leave out Laich-Higgins and make it Chimera + 1st + prospect and I'd be more inclined. We can't afford that many depth players, especially as you left Kassian out of the lineup, and we'll have Jensen NHL ready as early as this season, maybe.

I also think Holtby would garner more than Bailey in a trade right now.

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:58 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Agree with everything but 6. I can't for the life of me see Gillis trading Luongo for a soon-to-be UFA 3rd line center. I think if Bozak is involved in the trade he'll just be the roster player thrown into a futures deal.
I agree. I also see Bozak as a "sell high" candidate for Burke.
16.5% shooting percentage, 15 seconds less ice time/game than Henrik, and his possession numbers were less than desirable.

Theres no room on Vancouver to give him those minutes/situations so suddenly your trading for a player who Burke likely is going to market as a "top line center" (because he is to Toronto) when his value to Vancouver is 3rd line center rental.

Doesn't really make sense for Vancouver to acquire him, if they are going to have to pay a premium for him, much like it doesn;t make sense for Toronto to trade him for less than a premium (ie Luongo).

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Old
10-21-2012, 01:03 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Higgins for Laich seems a bit like a lateral move. I love Chimera though. Overall I don't think I would do it, though, as I don't think the value is there. Leave out Laich-Higgins and make it Chimera + 1st + prospect and I'd be more inclined. We can't afford that many depth players, especially as you left Kassian out of the lineup, and we'll have Jensen NHL ready as early as this season, maybe.

I also think Holtby would garner more than Bailey in a trade right now.
With Higgins having 1 year on his deal, I would value Laich over him.
I was thinking of it more as Luongo for Laich, Higgins for Ward + Chimera.

I think the depth players are fine, since we can let Kassian play big minute in the AHL and have him be our #1 callup/injury fill in. Same goes for Jensen next year.

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Old
10-21-2012, 01:06 AM
  #135
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Pls gib Luongo and Ballard.

:3

MacArthur, Finn, Colborne and 2nd?

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Old
10-21-2012, 01:08 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
With Higgins having 1 year on his deal, I would value Laich over him.
I was thinking of it more as Luongo for Laich, Higgins for Ward + Chimera.

I think the depth players are fine, since we can let Kassian play big minute in the AHL and have him be our #1 callup/injury fill in. Same goes for Jensen next year.
I don't really think we need that many depth players. If I had to tweak it, I'd go with:

Holtby for Saad(Chicago)

Luongo, Raymond for Chimera, 1st, Galiev.

Or something like that.

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10-21-2012, 01:15 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't really think we need that many depth players. If I had to tweak it, I'd go with:

Holtby for Saad(Chicago)

Luongo, Raymond for Chimera, 1st, Galiev.

Or something like that.
In all fairness I am really just a fan of Laich, Chimera and Ward so I would be stoked to land all 3.

The Islanders could also be an outlying "mystery team" and a deal based around Josh Bailey would be another I would like.

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10-21-2012, 01:19 AM
  #138
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Washington is one the few teams I'm really hoping make a push for Luongo.

*If* GMGM decides Holtby needs more seasoning he could make a great package for Luongo.

He can either go the quality route (Green for Lu) or a package that teams like Toronto are unlikely to match (MoJo+tweeners)

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10-21-2012, 01:20 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
good example of the double standard that most fans see. Luongo is seen as a non-clutch goalie because of his playoff games, yet when he makes clutch plays - like he did against Chicago which could have lost the series otherwise - no one talks about it. He gets zero credit for that.

I'm talking about the OT PP that Chicago had in game 7, where Sharp was allowed to sit wide open right in front of the net, where Luongo makes a clutch save to give his team a chance to win. No one remembers that it seems. But they'll remember his breakdowns clearly, like in the Boston series, while ignoring the fact that he got no goal support at all.
That was an amazing save! I remember watching that save it was like time slowed down, like it was in slow motion. Thought it was all over and then Luongo saved it. Burrows goes on to score. Canucks winning in overtime was probably my greatest Canuck memory of all time. I was talking to Paolo Aquilini about it a little while ago, he agrees one of his favourite memories.


Last edited by spiny norman: 10-21-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: added [/QUOTE]
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Old
10-21-2012, 01:21 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
In all fairness I am really just a fan of Laich, Chimera and Ward so I would be stoked to land all 3.

The Islanders could also be an outlying "mystery team" and a deal based around Josh Bailey would be another I would like.
If we go with:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kassian
Higgins-Malhotra/Schroeder-Hansen
Raymond-Lapierre-Chimera

That would leave us pretty much set. If Kassian isn't ready yet, we flip some futures(which we will have a lot of) for Perry or whoever at the deadline.

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10-21-2012, 01:22 AM
  #141
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That was an amazing save! I remember watching that save it was like time slowed down, like it was in slow motion. Thought it was all over and then Luongo saved it. Burrows goes on to score. Canucks winning in overtime was probably my greatest Canuck memory of all time. I was talking to Paolo Aquilini about it a little while ago, he agrees one of his favourite memories.

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10-21-2012, 01:54 AM
  #142
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That was an amazing save! I remember watching that save it was like time slowed down, like it was in slow motion. Thought it was all over and then Luongo saved it. Burrows goes on to score. Canucks winning in overtime was probably my greatest Canuck memory of all time. I was talking to Paolo Aquilini about it a little while ago, he agrees one of his favourite memories.
Yeah, it's funny how a lot of people have moved from pretending that we should just have Luongo's face on our jerseys because he was the team to wanting him moved out of town in such a short period of time.


Last edited by DJOpus: 10-21-2012 at 02:04 AM.
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10-21-2012, 02:15 AM
  #143
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If the Capitals were a team interested in Luongo I would guess Gillis would target one of their young defensemen(Carlson, Alzner, Green) as the basis of the return. I don't see the Caps willing to part with either Carlson/Alzner, but Green could be a possibility and he'd fit a big need in Vancouver for a RH'ed that can QB the PP. Could also allow the Canucks to move Edler for a nice package if they can't get him re-signed.

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10-21-2012, 02:54 AM
  #144
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There is no one really that I would want from the Leafs that would be available besides Colborne. So unless we get Colborne + a 1st or something substantial, I wouldn't want to see Lou traded there

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10-21-2012, 03:18 AM
  #145
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There is no one really that I would want from the Leafs that would be available besides Colborne. So unless we get Colborne + a 1st or something substantial, I wouldn't want to see Lou traded there
I think Bozak makes alot of sense. With Kesler being injured the Canucks badly need a center. They have no good young center ready as Schreoder is not having a good start to the AHL season.

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10-21-2012, 05:07 AM
  #146
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I'm not really sure when Luongo stop being a legitimate starter. The guy isn't too far removed from a gold medal, a Cup run (yeah I don't care how that went, he still was one of two starters in the entire league playing those games, and he can't score goals so we're leaving it at that... seriously) and a Vezina nomination. It isn't like he fell off of the face of the Earth last year. He posted a 2.41 and a .919. Those numbers aren't starter numbers? Pekka Rinne is regularly regarded as one of the top two or three goalies in the league at the moment (rightfully so) and his numbers weren't dramatically better. There is a difference between him not being a legitimate starter and the Canucks having young, good goalies coming up and potentially needing to clear some room.
Finally! Someone with some sense.

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10-21-2012, 05:11 AM
  #147
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That was an amazing save! I remember watching that save it was like time slowed down, like it was in slow motion. Thought it was all over and then Luongo saved it. Burrows goes on to score. Canucks winning in overtime was probably my greatest Canuck memory of all time. I was talking to Paolo Aquilini about it a little while ago, he agrees one of his favourite memories.
Yeah, there was a while there were we should have been renamed to the "Vancouver Luongos".

In fact, its because of him that we weren't a lotto pick team....
"ITS ALL YOUR FAULT LUUUU!!"

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10-21-2012, 05:33 AM
  #148
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If the Capitals were a team interested in Luongo I would guess Gillis would target one of their young defensemen(Carlson, Alzner, Green) as the basis of the return. I don't see the Caps willing to part with either Carlson/Alzner, but Green could be a possibility and he'd fit a big need in Vancouver for a RH'ed that can QB the PP. Could also allow the Canucks to move Edler for a nice package if they can't get him re-signed.
If we did chase Green, then Edler would be out the door almost immediately. You do not acquire someone of Green's caliber to play on the third pairing nor would any of our top four move down. This could work though if Anaheim would bite on moving Ryan or Perry. That said, Green is an expensive contract to bring in.

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10-21-2012, 05:45 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Different spin on this from the Toronto rumours, but there is thought regarding a mystery team and the Capitals could be an outlying team interested.

Washington
Josh Bailey

New York Islanders
Braden Holtby

Washington gets a solid young center who can replace Ribeiro long term (Backstrom, Johansson, Bailey is a pretty deadly middle). And the Islanders have a wealth of young centers looking to make the jump.

The Islanders get a good young goalie who can play 1A/1B behind Nabokov next year and ease his transition into a solid #1 goalie.

Then

Vancouver
Brooks Laich
Jason Chimera
Joel Ward

Washington
Roberto Luongo
Chris Higgins

So in for Washington - Luongo, Higgins, Bailey
And out for Washington - Laich, Chimera, Ward, Holtby

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Laich
Hansen Lapierre Chimera
Ward Malhotra Raymond


I don't really know how each side feels... I know its a couple fan favorites from Washington, but it definitely is a bit of a shake up for 2 contending teams.
So Vancouver gets Ward who is 32 at 3mil a year for two more years, Laich who is 29 with a no trade clause and chimera who is 33 175 for two more years--In years time all the Canucks will have left from the deal is Laich--it is a possibility.

I think Gillis will want some younger kids coming back for the long term goals of the canucks

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10-21-2012, 06:30 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Its sort of the same way with Raymond.

Everyone wants him off the team, and most people don't even include him in their "projected lineup".

At the end of the day, he has just as good of a track record as a "top-6 forward" as guys like Booth, and Higgins.

They also are quick to "dump him for salary" when he only accounts for 3% of a 70 million dollar cap.


Hockey fans have a very "what have you done for me lately" attitude.
How about a what have you done for me the last 2 seasons lately attitude?

Before the back injury even.

As for higgins, he was one of the bright spots in our lineup down the stretch scoring some game winning goals, if raymond did the same the heat would be alot less.

As for booth fans of the canucks are already as judgmental of him as raymond, he has not played a full season yet, regardless the complaining about booth is no different then raymond over here and booth has played maybe 40 some games with the canucks?


Last edited by Orca Smash: 10-21-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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