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10-21-2012, 11:41 AM
  #201
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Anaheim was in an entirely different situation..and it's not unreasonable to say the market had much more demand for Pronger than what the rumoured market characteristics are for Luongo's services atm. And lastly, Pronger was a top 3 dman at the time in the NHL, coming off a great reg season and playoffs. Luongo's stats compared to other goalies in the league declined last season..

Two totally different situations, doesn't mean Burke's going to throw in top assets just to fill a hole for the short term. He's already stated that

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10-21-2012, 11:42 AM
  #202
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So if any still doubt the rumour I heard about Grabo being the piece that is going to go to Vancouver if Luongo has been actually been traded. Kesler we know is out till the holidays. I am only relaying what I heard so don't shoot the messenger.

Grabo, and I am throwing out there Gunnar, and Reimer to the Nucks

for Luongo and a player to be named?

Speculation in a speculation thread. We will see.

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10-21-2012, 11:45 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
IMO:

If the rule passes that the signing team eats a retirement deal then his value increases, and multiple teams could have interest.

If Luongo is willing to waive his clause to go to multiple locations the value increases as there is competition for his services.

I could see something like Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st. in 2013(Leafs make playoffs), conditional 1st. in 2014(Leafs win the Cup).

Burke has shown no fears of throwing 1st. round picks into deals. Look at the depth of the Pronger deal, overall he gave up 4 first round picks for Pronger (IIRC and a 2nd.).

If Luongo is the answer and they end up in the playoffs then we're talking about a 16th. to 30th. first round pick. Kaberle landed a 1st. and former 1st. rounder (Colborne).

I'd speculate Burke would get another asset in return, someone from the Canucks farm team. Probably a middling prospect who might need a change of scenery.

Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st.(2013 playoffs), conditional 1st.(2014 Cup)
for
Luongo, prospect.

It may be necessary to move salary from the Leafs to the Canucks to balance the cap situations out.

I know Leafs' fans will scream in abject terror, but I'm looking at Burke's history of trades, and his propensity to include picks. If the Ducks' fans were like Leafs' fans, I can just imagine how they felt about the:

Pronger
for
Joffrey Lupul
Ladislav md
2007 first-round draft pick (Nick Ross)
2008 first-round draft pick -conditional (Jordan Eberle)
2008 second-round draft pick (Travis Hamonic)

Of course they didn't know the picks would be as bad (low in the 1st. round) as they turned out.

Ducks won the Cup.

Would you take the picks back and forfeit your Cup?
Well said. I would be satisfied with a deal like this, salary would probably come in the form of Lombardi or Connolly who can play 2/3C.

I think a prospect like Schroeder might make sense for the Leafs, as he's unlikely to get a shot in our top-6 with Henrik and Kesler down the middle, and he's been playing really well in the AHL, the problem is his linemates have issues reading the play and finishing for him. If he were to get a shot playing between Lupul and Kessel, I think it work wonders for his confidence and career.

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10-21-2012, 11:46 AM
  #204
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If Luongo's cap hit reverts back to the Vancouver Canuck's after his retirement then
I believe the price for him will go up. As far as the Toronto Maple Leafs go, I still would
refuse to trade guys like Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Morgan Rielly, JVR or anything
of that ilk. It just makes no sense for the Maple Leafs.

However, considering the potential of the new CBA I would upgrade the offer to include
a conditional 1st round pick, a young roster player (Frattin, Franson, Bozak, MacArthur)
and a mid-level prospect.

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10-21-2012, 11:46 AM
  #205
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All depends on the CBA, but I would love Luongo on this team if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. You go down the list of #1 goalies in the league and you'll find most of them are in their 30's, I really don't see how 33 is considered that old. I'm not sure why people think he's declining either, he had statistically the best season in his career 2 years ago, and posted a .919 save % last year.

I just think if you can solidify your most important position for the next 5-7 years and not pay anything stupid to do it (like Gardiner or an unprotected 1st), we should do it. I like Reimer, but I see no reason why he can't be a backup for a while, better goalies then him certainly have been.

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10-21-2012, 11:51 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
If Luongo's cap hit reverts back to the Vancouver Canuck's after his retirement then
I believe the price for him will go up. As far as the Toronto Maple Leafs go, I still would
refuse to trade guys like Jake Gardiner, Nazem Kadri, Morgan Rielly, JVR or anything
of that ilk. It just makes no sense for the Maple Leafs.

However, considering the potential of the new CBA I would upgrade the offer to include
a conditional 1st round pick, a young roster player (Frattin, Franson, Bozak, MacArthur)
and a mid-level prospect.
I don't think the cap will increase significantly, The Nucks will be under more pressure to deal Luongo after the new CBA. Too many teams just trying to stay afloat, 8 teams are haves, the rest are even or have nots. Players better realize this, or there will be no hockey for a long, long time.

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10-21-2012, 11:55 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I don't think the cap will increase significantly, The Nucks will be under more pressure to deal Luongo after the new CBA. Too many teams just trying to stay afloat, 8 teams are haves, the rest are even or have nots. Players better realize this, or there will be no hockey for a long, long time.
I'm sorry, I don't follow.

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10-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
IMO:

If the rule passes that the signing team eats a retirement deal then his value increases, and multiple teams could have interest.

If Luongo is willing to waive his clause to go to multiple locations the value increases as there is competition for his services.

I could see something like Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st. in 2013(Leafs make playoffs), conditional 1st. in 2014(Leafs win the Cup).

Burke has shown no fears of throwing 1st. round picks into deals. Look at the depth of the Pronger deal, overall he gave up 4 first round picks for Pronger (IIRC and a 2nd.).

If Luongo is the answer and they end up in the playoffs then we're talking about a 16th. to 30th. first round pick. Kaberle landed a 1st. and former 1st. rounder (Colborne).

I'd speculate Burke would get another asset in return, someone from the Canucks farm team. Probably a middling prospect who might need a change of scenery.

Kadri, Blacker, conditional 1st.(2013 playoffs), conditional 1st.(2014 Cup)
for
Luongo, prospect.

It may be necessary to move salary from the Leafs to the Canucks to balance the cap situations out.

I know Leafs' fans will scream in abject terror, but I'm looking at Burke's history of trades, and his propensity to include picks. If the Ducks' fans were like Leafs' fans, I can just imagine how they felt about the:

Pronger
for
Joffrey Lupul
Ladislav md
2007 first-round draft pick (Nick Ross)
2008 first-round draft pick -conditional (Jordan Eberle)
2008 second-round draft pick (Travis Hamonic)

Of course they didn't know the picks would be as bad (low in the 1st. round) as they turned out.

Ducks won the Cup.

Would you take the picks back and forfeit your Cup?
I think Burke has taken a lot of heat here in Toronto, for dealing first round picks, as in the Kessel trade and I think he will be gun-shy dealing another one however if Luongo makes us a contender, that draft pick will be well back in the first round.

I still have a lot of misgivings anointing Luongo as the team saviour and with his past injuries and lack luster play and the fact that he has been delegated as the back-up in Vancouver, can he actually make us a contending team and be worth what people here are saying he's worth, I think he is a real gamble and his trade price should reflect that.

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10-21-2012, 12:00 PM
  #209
Interactif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capemjs View Post
I'm sorry, I don't follow.
Basically, I am saying I don't think Luongo's value will increase after the new CBA, from what I have read and heard, the league is separated into less haves, and far more have nots revenue wise. The cap is not going up substantially if at all, Nucks will not have room to keep 9.33M invested in goalkeeping for the next 4 years. So again what I am saying is the new CBA will not IMO give more hand to Gillis in dealing him or keeping him.

Further I found it peculiar why Burke didn't submit an offer sheet to Schneider, he may have done Gillis a favour, since he would surely have matched any RFA offer that came Corey's way. Burke could have really stuck it to Gillis but he didn't.

Maybe Shannon is correct, a deal was worked out all along.

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10-21-2012, 12:04 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Basically, I am saying I don't think Luongo's value will increase after the new CBA, from what I have read and heard, the league is separated into less haves, and far more have nots revenue wise. The cap is not going up substantially if at all, Nucks will not have room to keep 9.33M invested in goalkeeping for the next 4 years. So again what I am saying is the new CBA will not IMO give more hand to Gillis in dealing him or keeping him.
I understand now. You might be right but it's tough to know without being a fly on
the wall for some of Gillis's phone calls. 9.33M in goal is a scary number I'll give
you that!

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10-21-2012, 12:04 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
And the picks I have included are conditional.

I have evidence Burke willingly gives up 1st. round picks for players he wants.

That fact is irrefutable.

You can hope he doesn't again, but throughout his career he's used 1st. round picks to make things happen. I doubt he changes his spots.
Yeah...before the Kessel trade. It won't happen again in Toronto.

And again, there is no correlation between an Anaheim team that went to the WC finals in 06', and needed Pronger to put them over-the-top, and this current Leafs team.

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10-21-2012, 12:40 PM
  #212
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I don't know if anybody has brought this up but IF the Leafs and Nucks are still talking trade then I would bet my first born child that Cody Franson is part of the package. He's not happy in Toronto and he's a BC boy. I'd say he's a lock to be traded if Lu comes to the Leafs

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10-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Anaheim was in an entirely different situation..and it's not unreasonable to say the market had much more demand for Pronger than what the rumoured market characteristics are for Luongo's services atm. And lastly, Pronger was a top 3 dman at the time in the NHL, coming off a great reg season and playoffs. Luongo's stats compared to other goalies in the league declined last season..

Two totally different situations, doesn't mean Burke's going to throw in top assets just to fill a hole for the short term. He's already stated that
You think Luongo is short term?

With Burke's luck at landing goaltenders ... I doubt this is short term.

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10-21-2012, 01:03 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yeah...before the Kessel trade. It won't happen again in Toronto.

And again, there is no correlation between an Anaheim team that went to the WC finals in 06', and needed Pronger to put them over-the-top, and this current Leafs team.
How much did he give up to land the Sedins?

Pronger wasn't the only deal he's spent 1st. rounders on.

Kessel 1st. rounder he dealt from a non playoffs squad.

He deals 1st. rounders, cannot be disputed.

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10-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #215
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Do people really think we are even close to winning a cup? I really think we are 3-4 years from even being a conference final contender. I do not want to trade ANY prospects or picks for him.

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10-21-2012, 01:10 PM
  #216
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And things have changed, don't assume Burke is so willing to give up first rounders now. He won't.
So you think the Kessel deal was a bad deal because he gave up the 1st. rounders.

There is a lot of support for the Kessel deal, so those people would disagree about Burke not being willing to deal 1st. round picks.

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10-21-2012, 01:19 PM
  #217
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Do people really think we are even close to winning a cup? I really think we are 3-4 years from even being a conference final contender. I do not want to trade ANY prospects or picks for him.
Imho if the Leafs added a goalie they would be a solid playoff team. If they added a No.1 centre as well they'd be a cup contender within 3 years.

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10-21-2012, 01:20 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
How much did he give up to land the Sedins?

Pronger wasn't the only deal he's spent 1st. rounders on.

Kessel 1st. rounder he dealt from a non playoffs squad.

He deals 1st. rounders, cannot be disputed.
And the unpresidented baclash he's received from the Kessel trade can't be disputed. He won't do it again in Toronto. The only way is if he signs an extension and he builds a true contender then he'd consider it down the line.

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10-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So you think the Kessel deal was a bad deal because he gave up the 1st. rounders.

There is a lot of support for the Kessel deal, so those people would disagree about Burke not being willing to deal 1st. round picks.
My opinion doesn't matter, he's gotten record-setting crap from that deal. He can't trade a first rounder anytime son.

And there's really not that much support for the Kessel trade. The majority hate it.

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10-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #220
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I don't know if anybody has brought this up but IF the Leafs and Nucks are still talking trade then I would bet my first born child that Cody Franson is part of the package. He's not happy in Toronto and he's a BC boy. I'd say he's a lock to be traded if Lu comes to the Leafs
Agreed. Packaged with Conny, Lombo, or Bozak.

I feel something else will come with Luongo, Burke will work some magic for us.

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10-21-2012, 01:23 PM
  #221
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Imho if the Leafs added a goalie they would be a solid playoff team. If they added a No.1 centre as well they'd be a cup contender within 3 years.
What if they don't get that #1 centre? All Luongo does is make their draft pick much worse.

It's a very risky deal for the Leafs.

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10-21-2012, 01:24 PM
  #222
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@ULF - If he trades a first for anything other than a young already established #1C, he'll be lynched. And even then he'll be criticized.

I have a difficult time agreeing that he'll include the 1st, it's just bizarre.

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10-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #223
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So you think the Kessel deal was a bad deal because he gave up the 1st. rounders.

There is a lot of support for the Kessel deal, so those people would disagree about Burke not being willing to deal 1st. round picks.
I agree I think he would give up a first round pick but I think also that he would have to be pretty darn sure Luongo is the answer to our goal tending situation.

I don't have that much confidence that he is but looking at the Goal tending situation in the league who else is available?

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10-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #224
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My opinion doesn't matter, he's gotten record-setting crap from that deal. He can't trade a first rounder anytime son.

And there's really not that much support for the Kessel trade. The majority hate it.
You don't think there is much support for the Kessel trade?

That trade is continuously supported here.

Are you suggesting some people are being less than sincere?

Burke will easily deal 1st. round picks to fill huge needs on the team.

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10-21-2012, 01:26 PM
  #225
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@ULF - If he trades a first for anything other than a young already established #1C, he'll be lynched. And even then he'll be criticized.

I have a difficult time agreeing that he'll include the 1st, it's just bizarre.
Exactly. Burke's world prior to the Kessel trade was a different one. What he did in the past doesn't matter. He cannot and will not trade a first rounder with a rebuilding team that just drafted 5th overall.

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