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10-21-2012, 10:36 AM
  #151
allan5oh
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Originally Posted by Boreal View Post
I have generally been impressed with Ladd's stick work in front of the net. I recall a number of nice tips last season, particularly early on in the campaign, I believe. I found his offensive game to be really underrated.
I just want to be clear that I love Ladd's game, he just needs to improve his hands a bit. There was more than a few times where he went to the net with the stick up. That's a habit that should've ended before juniors.

On Scheif:

He was supposed to be on the SiriusXM NHL home ice show "power play" on Friday but they didn't get a hold of him before a game took over the channel. The show runs from 4-6 PM central time monday to friday, and I expect him to be on tomorrow.

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10-21-2012, 01:08 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I think having Scheifele with the NHLers, even for a week, is a positive. Will help him learn the pace needed. What is there really to figure out? There's only what, 2 new forwards, are we completely re-inventing systems? These guys have played hockey their whole lives, it's not like they are re-inventing hockey systems in a week. I don't see how having Mark here, or running a condensed training camp are mutually exclusive is all I am saying. I am only talking about having 15-16 fwds, 8-9 d, 2 g in camp, it's not like you are having separate practice schedules, or a bunch of rookies. But you bring in the guys that can legitmately challenge for spots, and considering Scheifele FORCED his way onto the roster to start the year last year when it was clear Chevy/Noel did not expect him to play, makes him a legitemate candidate, IMO.
Just difference of opinion I guess. I think with a compressed schedule that week is critical. Guys have to get their timing back, get used to playing with each other again, and get thinking about the systems as second nature. I don't want a few sloppy games at the beginning of the year because we are giving players we know aren't going to be here a look or some kind of carrot.

Besides, is it the best for Scheifele right now? Of course he wants to come play with the big boys for a while, who wouldn't? But he is in a groove in Barrie right now. Why disrupt it? He would I am sure understand, he is a character guy.

The only guys that are not locks for the NHL roster this year that should be in Winnipeg when the lockout ends are the tweeners we need to make decisions on for call ups, 13th F 7th D guys. Postma, Redmond, Cormier, Macho. Guys like that.

I feel pretty strongly about this. If the Jets can come out of the gate strong in the first couple weeks, it could mean the difference between playoffs or none. I know what I would do, but I don't know what the org. WILL do. There are good arguments to be made for both moves.

EDIT: As for your last point? I think there is zero chance 55 will make the Jets this year. I think the org. has already decided it would be a great disservice to his development to let him crack the roster this year (or even next). The plan, as I see it, is Barrie this year, WJC's, good playoff run hopefully, and Ice Caps. Next year, a full year to play with men and get stronger in St. John's. They don't want to burn 2 years of an ELC on a underdeveloped player. The Mark Scheifele that cracks the NHL in '14 will be much more ready for the NHL.

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10-21-2012, 01:44 PM
  #153
Holden Caulfield
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
The only guys that are not locks for the NHL roster this year that should be in Winnipeg when the lockout ends are the tweeners we need to make decisions on for call ups, 13th F 7th D guys. Postma, Redmond, Cormier, Macho. Guys like that.

EDIT: As for your last point? I think there is zero chance 55 will make the Jets this year. I think the org. has already decided it would be a great disservice to his development to let him crack the roster this year (or even next). The plan, as I see it, is Barrie this year, WJC's, good playoff run hopefully, and Ice Caps. Next year, a full year to play with men and get stronger in St. John's. They don't want to burn 2 years of an ELC on a underdeveloped player. The Mark Scheifele that cracks the NHL in '14 will be much more ready for the NHL.
I doubt Redmond is up. I am not nearly as high on him as some people here are, I think he is being vastly overrated on these boards at this point.

I don't see one week away for an NHL TC as "getting him out of the groove". If that's the case, the 2-3 week WJC experience will be a disaster no?

Organization has already decided? Then WHY would they add him on the list of players they can recall for a mid-season camp? Many a solid prospects did NOT make that list around the league, in fact only ~15 teams submitted any names at all. Why would the Jets even bother submitting his name if he had no chance of making the team.

He MADE the team last year. He was the leading scorer in the entire NHL in the pre-season. He forced his way on. I am not sure why everyone wants to handle him with the biggest baby gloves ever. Exactly what you want is a player to force his way onto the roster. THAT's what your looking for, not a certain time limit you must spend in juniors/AHL. I don't see Scheifele in the AHL next year, at least I hope not. I want to see him force the Jets hand, like he did last year, only maintain that into the season. Star prospects generally don't spend time in the AHL. Who was the last top 6 forward to come from DET's much lauded AHL system? Only top 6er currently on their team that went through AHL is Filppula. Top prospects, the elite, force their way onto the roster (Landeskog, Skinner, O'Reilly, Eberle, Duchene, etc). They force the teams to not treat them with kiddie gloves. I fully expect Scheifele to do that.

Also, next year they burn a year of the ELC no matter what. So there is no way they can "burn" two years of the ELC. Next year would actually be "burning" a year of the ELC by wasting it in the AHL, too look at it another way.

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10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I doubt Redmond is up. I am not nearly as high on him as some people here are, I think he is being vastly overrated on these boards at this point.

I don't see one week away for an NHL TC as "getting him out of the groove". If that's the case, the 2-3 week WJC experience will be a disaster no?

Organization has already decided? Then WHY would they add him on the list of players they can recall for a mid-season camp. Many a solid prospects did NOT make that list around the league, in fact only ~15 teams submitted any names at all. Why would the Jets even bother submitting his name if he had no chance of making the team.

He MADE the team last year. He was the leading scorer in the entire NHL in the pre-season. He forced his way on. I am not sure why everyone wants to handle him with the biggest baby gloves ever. Exactly what you want is a player to force his way onto the roster. THAT's what your looking for, not a certain time limit you must spend in juniors/AHL. I don't see Scheifele in the AHL next year, at least I hope not. I want to see him force the Jets hand, like he did last year, only maintain that into the season. Star prospects generally don't spend time in the AHL. Who was the last top 6 forward to come from DET's much lauded AHL system? Only top 6er currently on their team that went through AHL is Filppula. Top prospects, the elite, force their way onto the roster (Landeskog, Skinner, O'Reilly, Duchene, etc). They force the teams to not treat them with kiddie gloves. I fully expect Scheifele to do that.

Also, next year they burn a year of the ELC no matter what. So there is no way they can "burn" two years of the ELC. Next year would actually be "burning" a year of the ELC by wasting it in the AHL, too look at it another way.
I will admit that my knowledge of contracts is rudimentary at best so I will defer that to you.

Scheifele 'almost made' the team (seriously, I don't know if anyone actually thought that was going to happen) by playing way above his head against weaker competition. When the competition got real in the regular season we saw where his development really was compared to actual NHL rosters. No risk of him staying up.

This year, our forward group is stronger. Cormier and Machacek will challenge to stay up, as might Klingberg. Jokinen and Poni are here. Fehr is most likely still in the equation (as much as y'all might scoff about that). He is in Winnipeg and will most certainly be invited to whatever camp we have.

I think you are overstating how close Scheifele was to cracking the roster last year. I also think that even taking into consideration the ELC rules he may still very well play in St John's next year. I believe TN will be patient with their prospects, and I believe that is the correct way to develop players.

PS the mid season recall list? That IMHO is just smart management. Does it cost the org anything to put him on this list? I would imagine not. Why not keep that option open even in if it was not in your plans to actually call him up? Again, as I said in my last response, I don't know what the org WILL do. I just know what I would do if I was making the decision.


Last edited by Jet: 10-21-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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10-21-2012, 02:05 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I doubt Redmond is up. I am not nearly as high on him as some people here are, I think he is being vastly overrated on these boards at this point.
I agree with you except for this part. I think he'll go to camp but then get sent down again.

On our boards we voted him as our 11th best prospect.
Hockey's Future has him as our 7th best prospect.
Hockey Prospectus has him as our 7th best prospect.
NHL has him as our 7th best prospect.
AIH has him as our 4th best prospect (reasoning why was the editor then was using heavy weighting on pro-experience, ex: pushed Telegin behind him; I doubt he'd be there today).

I think people can over-rate Redmond thinking he'll be better than a solid 3rd pairing D, but this board actually doesn't seem too high on him relative to most places. No more so than you and I were/are on Kulda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Fehr is most likely still in the equation (as much as y'all might scoff about that). He is in Winnipeg and will most certainly be invited to whatever camp we have.
I won't scoff. I think it is incredibly intelligent and likely scenario. I've always thought this year was an anomaly, just like his 29 point year.


Last edited by garret9: 10-21-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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10-21-2012, 02:06 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I doubt Redmond is up. I am not nearly as high on him as some people here are, I think he is being vastly overrated on these boards at this point.

I don't see one week away for an NHL TC as "getting him out of the groove". If that's the case, the 2-3 week WJC experience will be a disaster no?

Organization has already decided? Then WHY would they add him on the list of players they can recall for a mid-season camp? Many a solid prospects did NOT make that list around the league, in fact only ~15 teams submitted any names at all. Why would the Jets even bother submitting his name if he had no chance of making the team.

He MADE the team last year. He was the leading scorer in the entire NHL in the pre-season. He forced his way on. I am not sure why everyone wants to handle him with the biggest baby gloves ever. Exactly what you want is a player to force his way onto the roster. THAT's what your looking for, not a certain time limit you must spend in juniors/AHL. I don't see Scheifele in the AHL next year, at least I hope not. I want to see him force the Jets hand, like he did last year, only maintain that into the season. Star prospects generally don't spend time in the AHL. Who was the last top 6 forward to come from DET's much lauded AHL system? Only top 6er currently on their team that went through AHL is Filppula. Top prospects, the elite, force their way onto the roster (Landeskog, Skinner, O'Reilly, Eberle, Duchene, etc). They force the teams to not treat them with kiddie gloves. I fully expect Scheifele to do that.

Also, next year they burn a year of the ELC no matter what. So there is no way they can "burn" two years of the ELC. Next year would actually be "burning" a year of the ELC by wasting it in the AHL, too look at it another way.
Redmond won't be up. I think the guy can be a #4 or 5 defenseman in the NHL, top end #3, but he spent 4 years at college. So two years in the AHL won't be bad for the guy. Next year I think is when he starts to push for a spot. Only problem is ALLLLL the RH defenseman we have.

Scheifele will almost certainly NOT play in the AHL next year. He might be a tad slow on the development path, but not to the point that he can't crack our roster. He did enough last year in training camp and pre-season to get his shot. I don't think him leading the league in pre-season scoring really carries any weight. I think it was more the fact that he did all of the right things and showed he can play against guys that might already be in the NHL, AHL, and guys his own age.

As for him playing center. He will in due time, but he has to be able to win faceoffs. Otherwise, it'll be useless for us this year or next year. He'll have to line up at wing more often. Schiefele was awful when he took them last year. Little was 49.6%. Slater was 54.4%. One of Antro or Burmi will have to improve because one will likely be a center. This is an area as a team we are weak at and NEED to improve.

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10-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Scheifele will almost certainly NOT play in the AHL next year. He might be a tad slow on the development path, but not to the point that he can't crack our roster. He did enough last year in training camp and pre-season to get his shot. I don't think him leading the league in pre-season scoring really carries any weight. I think it was more the fact that he did all of the right things and showed he can play against guys that might already be in the NHL, AHL, and guys his own age.
Scheifele can only play the AHL this year the same way he did last year. I think he'll get a short look at camp though just so they can judge and evaluate him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
As for him playing center. He will in due time, but he has to be able to win faceoffs. Otherwise, it'll be useless for us this year or next year. He'll have to line up at wing more often. Schiefele was awful when he took them last year. Little was 49.6%. Slater was 54.4%. One of Antro or Burmi will have to improve because one will likely be a center. This is an area as a team we are weak at and NEED to improve.
Wellwood is good but Noel is opposed to using him there.
I would love for us to have our third line as Poni-Antro-Welly and have Antro play C but Welly take the draws.

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10-21-2012, 03:27 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Scheifele can only play the AHL this year the same way he did last year. I think he'll get a short look at camp though just so they can judge and evaluate him.

(...)
Duke was talking about next year, not this year after a potential call-up from the OHL for TC.

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10-21-2012, 03:52 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Duke was talking about next year, not this year after a potential call-up from the OHL for TC.
My apologies... misread with multitasking at work! sorry

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11-04-2012, 06:47 AM
  #160
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