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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-21-2012, 01:10 PM
  #176
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You have 2 sides with extreme opinions on either side of the debate. I think most neutrals would agree that the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately both sides are convincing themselves that they can hit a home run with this trade.

On one side you have Canucks expecting 1st rounders, Gardiner, Lupul, Reilly back and even expecting mystery teams to get involved and make dumb trades just to fit the fantasy.
On the other you have Leafs fans thinking they can get Luongo for cap dumps or any other garbage they can lay their hands on and it's Burke this, Burke that, the sun shines out of Burkes *** etc. Hell I have seen some TO fans asking for Vancouver to add a 1st to Luongo just to dump the contract

What is up for grabs is an excellent goalie who is 33 on a long contract with a reasonable cap hit. (a chunk of the risk could even be mitigated in the new cb)

Canucks likely have a window of 1-2 years to win a cup, what is going to help them achieve that? Luongo or a bunch of garbage? So it's obvious that Leafs have to offer something decent to tempt Vancouver into making a deal, it's got to help them too.

If Leafs fans don't want to pay a reasonable price for Luongo the look elsewhere or go with your current tandem. It's just ridiculous to want/need him yet think you can get him for nothing or expendable pieces.

If Canuck fans don't want to accept a reasonable price then find another dance partner or keep him(the best option imo and there is no hard evidence to suggest that's not a very real possibility despite what some Leafs fans want to believe. It's not unreasonable that he could win the starting job from Schneider)

From a neutral pov roster player+good prospect+2nd seems like a fair return for Luongo all things considered.

Luongo+ for Bozak/Kulemin + Kadri + 2nd

Before anyone gets too excited the + on the Vancouver side is not Kessler probably something fairly minor.

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10-21-2012, 01:15 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
You have 2 sides with extreme opinions on either side of the debate. I think most neutrals would agree that the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately both sides are convincing themselves that they can hit a home run with this trade.

On one side you have Canucks expecting 1st rounders, Gardiner, Lupul, Reilly back and even expecting mystery teams to get involved and make dumb trades just to fit the fantasy.
On the other you have Leafs fans thinking they can get Luongo for cap dumps or any other garbage they can lay their hands on and it's Burke this, Burke that, the sun shines out of Burkes *** etc. Hell I have seen some TO fans asking for Vancouver to add a 1st to Luongo just to dump the contract

What is up for grabs is an excellent goalie who is 33 on a long contract with a reasonable cap hit. (a chunk of the risk could even be mitigated in the new cb)

Canucks likely have a window of 1-2 years to win a cup, what is going to help them achieve that? Luongo or a bunch of garbage? So it's obvious that Leafs have to offer something decent to tempt Vancouver into making a deal, it's got to help them too.

If Leafs fans don't want to pay a reasonable price for Luongo the look elsewhere or go with your current tandem. It's just ridiculous to want/need him yet think you can get him for nothing or expendable pieces.

If Canuck fans don't want to accept a reasonable price then find another dance partner or keep him(the best option imo and there is no hard evidence to suggest that's not a very real possibility despite what some Leafs fans want to believe. It's not unreasonable that he could win the starting job from Schneider)

From a neutral pov roster player+good prospect+2nd seems like a fair return for Luongo all things considered.

Luongo+ for Bozak/Kulemin + Kadri + 2nd

Before anyone gets too excited the + on the Vancouver side is not Kessler
exactly what posters here wanting him on their team don't realize even though Canuck fans have been saying it the entire time.

On ur idea for a deal I think the + from Vancouver should be taken out and personally I'd want Colborne over Kadri

so Luongo for Kulemin Colborne and a 2nd. I wouldnt be happy with this buhhh wouldn't be mad either

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10-21-2012, 01:17 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
If Canuck fans don't want to accept a reasonable price then find another dance partner or keep him(the best option imo and there is no hard evidence to suggest that's not a very real possibility despite what some Leafs fans want to believe. It's not unreasonable that he could win the starting job from Schneider)

From a neutral pov roster player+good prospect+2nd seems like a fair return for Luongo all things considered.

Luongo+ for Bozak/Kulemin + Kadri + 2nd

Before anyone gets too excited the + on the Vancouver side is not Kessler
I hope like hell Vancouver keeps him. Or trades him elsewhere. If Luongo does get traded, I'll bet the price will be much more modest than is being generally predicted on this thread.

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10-21-2012, 01:41 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
I hope like hell Vancouver keeps him. Or trades him elsewhere. If Luongo does get traded, I'll bet the price will be much more modest than is being generally predicted on this thread.
What's the price generally predicted in this thread?

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10-21-2012, 01:45 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
You have 2 sides with extreme opinions on either side of the debate. I think most neutrals would agree that the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately both sides are convincing themselves that they can hit a home run with this trade.

On one side you have Canucks expecting 1st rounders, Gardiner, Lupul, Reilly back and even expecting mystery teams to get involved and make dumb trades just to fit the fantasy.
On the other you have Leafs fans thinking they can get Luongo for cap dumps or any other garbage they can lay their hands on and it's Burke this, Burke that, the sun shines out of Burkes *** etc. Hell I have seen some TO fans asking for Vancouver to add a 1st to Luongo just to dump the contract

What is up for grabs is an excellent goalie who is 33 on a long contract with a reasonable cap hit. (a chunk of the risk could even be mitigated in the new cb)

Canucks likely have a window of 1-2 years to win a cup, what is going to help them achieve that? Luongo or a bunch of garbage? So it's obvious that Leafs have to offer something decent to tempt Vancouver into making a deal, it's got to help them too.

If Leafs fans don't want to pay a reasonable price for Luongo the look elsewhere or go with your current tandem. It's just ridiculous to want/need him yet think you can get him for nothing or expendable pieces.

If Canuck fans don't want to accept a reasonable price then find another dance partner or keep him(the best option imo and there is no hard evidence to suggest that's not a very real possibility despite what some Leafs fans want to believe. It's not unreasonable that he could win the starting job from Schneider)

From a neutral pov roster player+good prospect+2nd seems like a fair return for Luongo all things considered.

Luongo+ for Bozak/Kulemin + Kadri + 2nd

Before anyone gets too excited the + on the Vancouver side is not Kessler probably something fairly minor.
I honestly think the Canuck's window has passed. Especially if the lockout takes out the entire year.

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10-21-2012, 01:48 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
I hope like hell Vancouver keeps him. Or trades him elsewhere. If Luongo does get traded, I'll bet the price will be much more modest than is being generally predicted on this thread.
Predicted by who? It sure won't be more modest than what Leafs fans are predicting.

For a goalie like Luongo. Don't make me laugh.

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10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Predicted by who? It sure won't be more modest than what Leafs fans are predicting.

For a goalie like Luongo. Don't make me laugh.
It doesn't matter how good Luongo is, it matters what the market is. There's simply not enough interest to make him worth a Gardiner/First Rounder/Bozak package.

Do money-losing teams want a guy who's cap hit is lower than his actual salary? No.

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10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I honestly think the Canuck's window has passed. Especially if the lockout takes out the entire year.
If the lockout takes out the whole year it won't help for sure. I don't think the window is closed yet personally.


Last edited by gooilgo: 10-21-2012 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Predictive text error
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10-21-2012, 01:50 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
You have 2 sides with extreme opinions on either side of the debate. I think most neutrals would agree that the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately both sides are convincing themselves that they can hit a home run with this trade.
I think the thing is, from a Vancouver perspective, if you can't get a "homerun" why trade Luongo at all?

Assuming there is an increased escrow or a roll-back of some sort, then the Canucks are not in cap trouble and there aren't really any UFA's out there that would better utilize Luongo's cap space. Also, there is a chance that Schneider gets hurt or can't handle the starters load in a compressed schedule in either case, Luongo becomes more valuable then even a star forward like Getzlaf or Perry. In a way, it makes more sense to keep Luongo, play him 30-40 games than to trade him for anything less than say a Phil Kessel or a really nice package of three or four useful "futures".

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10-21-2012, 01:51 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It doesn't matter how good Luongo is, it matters what the market is. There's simply not enough interest to make him worth a Gardiner/First Rounder/Bozak package.
No one has asked for/expected Gardiner in quite some time.

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10-21-2012, 01:52 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Predicted by who? It sure won't be more modest than what Leafs fans are predicting.

For a goalie like Luongo. Don't make me laugh.
dont u know its 7uongo! he sucks! but he'll instantly be the best goalie they've had in almost a decade and be an elite goalie that can finally get them into the playoffs again

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10-21-2012, 01:52 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I honestly think the Canuck's window has passed. Especially if the lockout takes out the entire year.

Until the Sedins stop being 1st liners, the Canuck "window" is wide open.

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10-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
dont u know its 7uongo! he sucks! but he'll instantly be the best goalie they've had in almost a decade and be an elite goalie that can finally get them into the playoffs again
Like he did for Florida all those years

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10-21-2012, 01:57 PM
  #189
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What would be funnier is watching Vancouver dump Luongo for a moderate return and having Schneider crap the bed. Now that would be fun to watch.
.....And still win the division with 14 games left on the schedule.

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10-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
dont u know its 7uongo! he sucks! but he'll instantly be the best goalie they've had in almost a decade and be an elite goalie that can finally get them into the playoffs again
As all Panther fans know, Luongo isn't a guarantee for the playoffs.

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10-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It doesn't matter how good Luongo is, it matters what the market is. There's simply not enough interest to make him worth a Gardiner/First Rounder/Bozak package.

Do money-losing teams want a guy who's cap hit is lower than his actual salary? No.


The market _and_ what you are selling _both_ matter.


I dunno, the "interest" from TO from all the _reports_ seems to be pretty significant. Shannon with his proclamation. Botchford with his recent insight. Then Cox with the rumoured demand by Gillis. And didn't Kypreos say something recently on it? Point being, there's a lot of smoke there...


But why would there be if there was no interest?

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10-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #192
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2 consecutive PT's, and our window has passed?

We'll have the same team, plus whatever returns for Luongo, and Kassian is showing that he is a real blue chipper. Jensen too.

Unless you believe Kesler will never be healthy again, we let Edler walk, Schneider and Lack fall apart, and the Sedin's will only be effective until they are 34.

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10-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Like he did for Florida all those years
Is your team as pathetic as the pre-cap Panthers team? Not even the Oilers the last few seasons were as bad as that team. When defenceman Mike Van Ryn is 2nd in scoring, your team has big issues

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10-21-2012, 02:10 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It doesn't matter how good Luongo is, it matters what the market is. There's simply not enough interest to make him worth a Gardiner/First Rounder/Bozak package.

Do money-losing teams want a guy who's cap hit is lower than his actual salary? No.
Well if the market is so poor that they don't get at least a reasonable return then they simply don't trade him. They are unlikely to get a return like the one in your post but why trade him for garbage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I think the thing is, from a Vancouver perspective, if you can't get a "homerun" why trade Luongo at all?

Assuming there is an increased escrow or a roll-back of some sort, then the Canucks are not in cap trouble and there aren't really any UFA's out there that would better utilize Luongo's cap space. Also, there is a chance that Schneider gets hurt or can't handle the starters load in a compressed schedule in either case, Luongo becomes more valuable then even a star forward like Getzlaf or Perry. In a way, it makes more sense to keep Luongo, play him 30-40 games than to trade him for anything less than say a Phil Kessel or a really nice package of three or four useful "futures".
Then I guess he will be suiting up in Canuck colors next year(and that is no bad thing). Neither team will hit a home run here.


Last edited by gooilgo: 10-21-2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Clarification
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10-21-2012, 02:35 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
2 consecutive PT's, and our window has passed?

We'll have the same team, plus whatever returns for Luongo, and Kassian is showing that he is a real blue chipper. Jensen too.

Unless you believe Kesler will never be healthy again, we let Edler walk, Schneider and Lack fall apart, and the Sedin's will only be effective until they are 34.
I think that the Presidents Trophies says as much about the division that Vancouver played in, moreso than the team itself. That division looks to have improved in the off-season, and is adding Suter, Parise, Baertschi, Hudler, Wideman, Yakupov, and Schultz.

That said, by the start of 2014-2015, 11 Canucks will become UFA's, including both Sedins, Edler, Malhotra, Hansen, Raymond, Higgins, Lapierre, Alberts, Ebbet, and Volpati.

I can see why Vancouver needs to hit a home-run with the Luongo deal. I just can't see Toronto or Florida giving up a great deal for him right now. I think Gillis might be better off holding onto Luongo, and see if he can improve the leverage.

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10-21-2012, 02:39 PM
  #196
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Although I don't think Gillis should hold out for Phil Kessel, it makes most sense for him to hold on to Luongo as an insurance policy if he can't get anything very useful in return as long as Vancouver doesn't run in to cap issues. Very distinct possibility that Luongo will start the season with the Canucks and that Gillis will patiently wait for a team to get desperate. If no team bites for Luongo after the CBA is resolved, I could see Gillis signing Arnott and Schroeder getting a chance to fill in for Kesler until his return.

d. sedin - h. sedin - burrows
raymond - kesler/schroeder - booth
higgins - arnott - hansen
malhotra - lapierre - kassian

Trading Luongo at this point should return an immediate upgrade to 3C or top 6 W (upgrade over Raymond/Higgins - no tweeners) as well as a solid futures asset.

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10-21-2012, 02:39 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by victor View Post
I think that the Presidents Trophies says as much about the division that Vancouver played in, moreso than the team itself. That division looks to have improved in the off-season, and is adding Suter, Parise, Baertschi, Hudler, Wideman, Yakupov, and Schultz.

That said, by the start of 2014-2015, 11 Canucks will become UFA's, including both Sedins, Edler, Malhotra, Hansen, Raymond, Higgins, Lapierre, Alberts, Ebbet, and Volpati.

I can see why Vancouver needs to hit a home-run with the Luongo deal. I just can't see Toronto or Florida giving up a great deal for him right now. I think Gillis might be better off holding onto Luongo, and see if he can improve the leverage.
It's going to be hard to improve leverage when every GM knows that once 2013-2014 rolls around 1 of those goalies must go. Vancouver is going to need someone to get extremely desperate or they will be lucky to get anything of value for luongo.

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10-21-2012, 02:51 PM
  #198
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It's going to be hard to improve leverage when every GM knows that once 2013-2014 rolls around 1 of those goalies must go. Vancouver is going to need someone to get extremely desperate or they will be lucky to get anything of value for luongo.
Every season unpredictable things happen.......injuries, trades, controversies.....

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10-21-2012, 02:53 PM
  #199
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It's going to be hard to improve leverage when every GM knows that once 2013-2014 rolls around 1 of those goalies must go. Vancouver is going to need someone to get extremely desperate or they will be lucky to get anything of value for luongo.
Will Vancouver be forced to clear cap space to sign Edler, or will they let him go, is the $100 question. Both Burke and Tallon know this.

Will Edler get another $3m/yr? (assuming the new cap is comparable to the current one) That would put his cap hit to $6.25m - I could see a number of teams offering him that this last offseason.

Malhotra, Raymond, Higgins, Lapierre, Ebbet, Volpati, and Alberts all become UFA at the same time. It's about $10m in cap space, but they'll need to bring in seven new players. Take $3m out of that group, and you have $7m to sign 7 players. Can be done, but will mean a number of those slots will be filled with either rookies or league minimum players.

Kadri's cap hit is $1.7m. I wonder if this would impact what Gillis is looking for? Or, is this the first trade to include cap space? (as mentioned in the proposed CBA?)

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10-21-2012, 02:57 PM
  #200
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^ That is why we have Gillman.

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