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Chicago- New York (Boyle)

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Old
10-12-2012, 06:28 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
Completely agree. This is overpayment for Boyle, I take a 1st and run if I'm the Rangers.
Who plays shutdown center role???? A late 1st from the Blackhawks would not help the Rangers at all, unless they use that 1st in a package for another center who can play tough defensive minutes.

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10-12-2012, 06:52 PM
  #27
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Kudos, OP. Instead of knowingly offering a combination of crap for a player you like, you actually presented a proposal that's very tempting. It's not your typical HF proposal that's borderline insulting. Props. Boyle plays a big role on this team, but I would personally jump on this.

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10-12-2012, 07:14 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Boyle and Kreider? Sure. That's what it would take.
This is Jonathan Toews



This is Dave Bolland



Look closely, and note the differences. I think it's a distinction you really need to work on.

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Old
10-12-2012, 07:30 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
This is Jonathan Toews



This is Dave Bolland



Look closely, and note the differences. I think it's a distinction you really need to work on.
Why would we trade Bolland for a downgrade unless there is some kind of a + in it for us?

...and Boyle and Kreider doesnt even come close to getting you Toews.

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10-12-2012, 07:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Why would we trade Bolland for a downgrade unless there is some kind of a + in it for us?

...and Boyle and Kreider doesnt even come close to getting you Toews.
Because Kreider is a significantly more valuable piece than Bolland. Even making that offer is preposterous and comical.

If you think you're getting anyone's top LW for Dave Bolland you must think he's Jonathan Toews.

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Old
10-12-2012, 10:27 PM
  #31
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moving BB is a risk cause we're thin, but it's an acceptable risk if there is enough profit. 1st is good, other combos ok.

Want to give Yogan a shot,not sure he's ready now; then again, it's 4th line

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Old
10-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Because Kreider is a significantly more valuable piece than Bolland. Even making that offer is preposterous and comical.

If you think you're getting anyone's top LW for Dave Bolland you must think he's Jonathan Toews.
And Bolland is significantly more valuable than Boyle, to the Hawks..works both ways.
And LOL @ Krieder being your top LW when he hasn't even played a regular season game yet.
..and Again, Kreider doesnt even begin to be the centre piece of a deal for Toews.

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheSilfverBullet View Post
Based on your theory, the Blackhawks trade a 1st for a guy who'll be playing 4th line minutes?

Makes sense.
See Gaustad, Paul.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:34 AM
  #34
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Boyle is too important to our team to trade him for futures. Until Lindberg or Miller prove that they can be viable 3rd line centers in the NHL, Boyle isn't going anywhere.

Another guy who is constantly underrated by his own fan base because he isn't lighting up the scoreboard.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:31 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Foligno or McNabb
Lol no but seriously...

How about something around Leopold, given the Rangers PP last year. He's an awesome PP QB and he's still pretty good defensively. Even if he was on your last D-line, I think he'd be a great partner for MDZ on the PP, or even the QB for your second PP line.


Last edited by CraniumCram: 10-15-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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Old
10-15-2012, 12:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Who plays shutdown center role???? A late 1st from the Blackhawks would not help the Rangers at all, unless they use that 1st in a package for another center who can play tough defensive minutes.
The "shutdown center role" in today's NHL is as useful as **** on a bull.

What teams need is not the prototypical "shutdown center" they need a guy that can play SOLID defensively while at the same time keep teams honest offensively and Boyle doesn't do that.

He's a big guy that is constantly and consistently taken off his feet by smaller players.

For as big as he is, he doesn't do nearly as good a job wearing down opposing defenceman on the forcheck.

Being a center it's important to have SOME ability to incorporate your wingers into the offence, but since Boyle is offensively challenged, that's an aspect that will haunt this Rangers team.

Boyle is a smart defensive center with significant flaws that will not help the Rangers scoring problems.

Having Boyle centering the 3rd line still places to much pressure/burden for scoring from the top 6 forwards.

Having Boyle center the 4th line is ideal, but until Miller is ready for that role, we have to suffer through Stone Hands Boyle.

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Old
10-15-2012, 03:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Lol no but seriously...

How about something around Leopold, given the Rangers PP last year. He's an awesome PP QB and he's still pretty good defensively. Even if he was on your last D-line, I think he'd be a great partner for MDZ on the PP, or even the QB for your second PP line.
Richards is MDZ's partner and Stralman's there for our second unit. No interest in Leopold.

Our PP is dreadful because of coaching issues, not player talent.

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Old
10-16-2012, 01:23 AM
  #38
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In a perfect world-

Carcillo-Toews-Kane
Stalberg-Sharp-Hossa
Saad-Bolland-Shaw
Smith-Boyle-Kruger

Keith-Seabrook
Rosi-Hammer
Oduya-Leddy

Crawford/Bernier

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Old
10-16-2012, 01:27 AM
  #39
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In a perfect world, the Hawks aren't sticking a fourth-liner with Toews and Kane.

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:18 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
In a perfect world, the Hawks aren't sticking a fourth-liner with Toews and Kane.
Not necessarily, he could cause a lot of havoc that toews and kane could take advantage of. I'm sure Carcillo is decently skilled too, enough to put in easy one-timers anyway.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #41
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In a perfect world, Carcillo is on the 4th line, and Lucic type player is with Toews and Kane. Yes, Carcillo can fill that role from time to time, but that's not in a perfect world.

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Old
10-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Boyle is too important to our team to trade him for futures. Until Lindberg or Miller prove that they can be viable 3rd line centers in the NHL, Boyle isn't going anywhere.

Another guy who is constantly underrated by his own fan base because he isn't lighting up the scoreboard.
That's the safe route, and it's not bad advice.
But the return for Boyle may not be higher than that kind of offer.

I admit I've proposed moving Stepan in other deals, some with Boyle, and THAT is pushing it, though the returns (guys like Evander Kane) are an upgrade, just not in the pivot. But moving Boyle only is much less risk, I see JT Miller a good chance to get here very soon, with Lindberg a high probability at 4th line, maybe 3rd, just taking longer to get here.

And Yogan intrigues me.

If there is serious overpayment for Boyle, whose game I like up to a point but I'm not crazy about, my vote is take the profit, especially if it is an asset we can eventually customize for further upgrade (like a high pick).

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #43
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Boyle and rights to Valenenko


McNeill and Beach

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:39 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
In a perfect world, Carcillo is on the 4th line, and Lucic type player is with Toews and Kane. Yes, Carcillo can fill that role from time to time, but that's not in a perfect world.
Please man...the way Q rolled lines ,

Kopecky was on the first line one the SCF


Last edited by spiny norman: 10-18-2012 at 08:10 PM. Reason: corrected [/QUOTE]
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Old
10-20-2012, 10:54 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Boyle and rights to Valenenko

McNeill and Beach
^ something that might work.

Would Boyle, Christian Thomas, G prospect Stacjer, and NYR 2nd in 2014

get Hawks choice of McNeil or Beach + Olsen + CBH 3rd in 2013?

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Old
10-20-2012, 01:06 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
That's the safe route, and it's not bad advice.
But the return for Boyle may not be higher than that kind of offer.

I admit I've proposed moving Stepan in other deals, some with Boyle, and THAT is pushing it, though the returns (guys like Evander Kane) are an upgrade, just not in the pivot. But moving Boyle only is much less risk, I see JT Miller a good chance to get here very soon, with Lindberg a high probability at 4th line, maybe 3rd, just taking longer to get here.

And Yogan intrigues me.

If there is serious overpayment for Boyle, whose game I like up to a point but I'm not crazy about, my vote is take the profit, especially if it is an asset we can eventually customize for further upgrade (like a high pick).
Its a huge stretch at best to say that Yogan is ready. He's a guy who needs a full year or two in the AHL to find and develop his game. You would be more likely to see Newbury at this point.

I'd have to think long and hard about Boyle for a first. The value is def there, but can you move your 3rd line center with no current replacement? Sather would have to get clever somewhere else on this one...

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:09 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
In a perfect world-

Carcillo-Toews-Kane
Stalberg-Sharp-Hossa
Saad-Bolland-Shaw
Smith-Boyle-Kruger

Keith-Seabrook
Rosi-Hammer
Oduya-Leddy

Crawford/Bernier
I like that line up. Saad could perhaps switch with Carcillo but again Q is the master juggler!
I like Bernier wearing the Indian Head too, but who leaves to land him? At least one of Stalberg, Saad,
Smith or Kruger plus a prospect.

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Old
10-21-2012, 12:14 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Arnott is not an upgrade offensively at even strength, not matter how much people keep saying it.
Yes he is. Offensively, yes. At faceoffs? No. Boyle is better on the draw, but not better offensively than Arnott is at this point. Arnott is even slower than Boyle is (I know, hard to believe) but Arnott's offensive smarts eclipse Boyle and his shot is still 10 times better. Also, on the power play, Arnott would be a significant asset as he doesn't mind parking himself in front of the net.

Am I advocating bringing in Arnott to replace Boyle? No, but you're only fooling yourself if you think that Arnott isn't an upgrade offensively.

Quote:
In the past 5 seasons, there has been one instance of a player starting less than 30% of his shifts in the offensive zone and scoring more ESP than Boyle last season. So underappreciated.
And look at the competition he's played against while doing it. You're going to tell me that all of those points were scored while he was attempting to shut down the opposition's top line? I'd have a real tough time believing that.

These stupid CORSI and Sabremetrics stats need to go. They don't work in baseball and they sure as hell won't work in hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
And Bolland is significantly more valuable than Boyle, to the Hawks..works both ways.
And LOL @ Krieder being your top LW when he hasn't even played a regular season game yet.
..and Again, Kreider doesnt even begin to be the centre piece of a deal for Toews.
Kreider played 18 playoff games and was arguably our best forward. He was our best forward hands down in the ECF where he looked like he was a seasoned vet.

You couldn't be more wrong about Kreider.

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Old
10-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #49
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Its a huge stretch at best to say that Yogan is ready. He's a guy who needs a full year or two in the AHL to find and develop his game. You would be more likely to see Newbury at this point.

I'd have to think long and hard about Boyle for a first. The value is def there, but can you move your 3rd line center with no current replacement? Sather would have to get clever somewhere else on this one...
I agree Yogan is not certain to be ready this year, and barring injury would go another direction, though weaning Yogan into minimal responsibility with minimal 4th line minutes would not be the end of the world if we were forced to that. I expect everyone, including Yogan himself, realizes he's best off getting a full campaign of seasoning this year, so he's better poise to knock on that door next year.

My point was they saw potential in Yogan when they drafted him, including as to ability to use his size and a knack for scoring; the downside was possibly effort. If Yogan busts his butt and is close enough to compete, he should not be denied and disappointed. That time is not now, but depending upon Yogan, could be next year or the following season. I don't want Yogan squandered as an asset; I'm not pressing he be rushed here tomorrow.

I am calling for JT Miller to get a full and fair shot, especially if Boyle or Stepan can command enough of an upgrade it makes sense to move them. He is rookie raw and he won't skate in the class of Kreider or Hagelin, but he can be a better pivot for say Callahan and Kreider with his wheels, and if top dollar is offered NOW for Boyle, that should be considered.

I invite your reaction to my subsequent proposal:
Would Boyle, Christian Thomas, G prospect Stacjer, and NYR 2nd in 2014

get Hawks choice of McNeil or Beach + Olsen + CBH 3rd in 2013?

I am wondering if something like that works, as I am interested in follow up commentary on

something like
(rights to) Del Zotto + the acquired Olsen + Ceresnak + X
to Boston
for Doug Hamilton + y

Before starting a whole new thread there, would like to see where we stand about this set up scenario...

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Old
10-21-2012, 03:50 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
...
Kreider played 18 playoff games and was arguably our best forward. He was our best forward hands down in the ECF where he looked like he was a seasoned vet.

You couldn't be more wrong about Kreider.
CM, palomino, pal o mine o!
Best regards.

Just chimed in quickly because you can't expect everybody, especially those outside the Ranger fan base, to be aware yet of CK's potential, so reproach gently, my friend.

I'm still sticking with, barring injury, Keon-esque impact at minimum, with Bure upside if he does have enough shooting skill.

I understand they are bulking him up a bit, and I hope they are careful and NOT overdo it at anything which would diminish his speed advantage.

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