HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-21-2012, 03:46 PM
  #201
Kreider Typical
flex
 
Kreider Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,555
vCash: 500
w/e we'd still be the only professional league w/ 2 lockouts, but right now i really don't think the league(or the PA) is willing to lose another season regardless of how far they look now. it's just not financially logical. the league made an offer meaning they're having trouble with ownership.

getting off-topic though. his statement doesn't really need clarification. we get it. another lockout is a bad thing.

Kreider Typical is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 03:51 PM
  #202
AceintheSpace*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 536
vCash: 500
Are you boys familiar with the phrase about a dead horse?

One canceled season is bad. Two canceled seasons is ridiculous. The end. All there is to take in about my post.

Theres no need to tell me we have one canceled season. This is a hockey board, not a TMZ board. Im sure thats required knowledge here.


Last edited by AceintheSpace*: 10-21-2012 at 04:09 PM.
AceintheSpace* is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #203
TMI
Global Moderator
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 46,981
vCash: 500
You guys need to calm down.

TMI is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:11 PM
  #204
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
#NHL, #NHLPA held conf call today to get clarification on HRR and revenue sharing. No meetings sked
https://twitter.com/tpanotchCSN/stat...23369360482304

The NHL proposal

Quote:
2. HRR Accounting:

• Current HRR Accounting subject to mutual clarification of existing interpretations and settlements.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

They discussed clarification on HRR.

Quote:
At least one-half of the total Revenue Sharing Pool (50%) will be raised from the Top 10 Revenue Grossing Clubs in a manner to be determined by the NHL.
Quote:
The distribution of the Revenue Sharing Pool will be determined on an annual basis by a Revenue Sharing Committee on which the NHLPA will have representation and input.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

More clarification.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #205
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Brooks wrote the difference is $3M per team.

Quote:
When you get right down to it, the difference between the parties sure seems to be getting awfully small: even at 5% growth, the worst possible, the PA has presented an offer that appears to be about $487.4MM away from what the NHL wants financially over a six year period. That’s $81.23MM per year (and it shrinks if growth is higher!) $2.71MM per team. Do the Oilers NEED to have Kevin Lowe AND Steve Tambellini AND Craig MacTavish? They used to get by with one GM. Now they’re probably paying three guys GM money. The Maple Leafs have engaged in a little front office bloat since the lockout too, another example: Brian Burke is making huge money, they have Dave Nonis working for them, Rick Dudley was wandering around for a while, Dave Poulin, Cliff Fletcher as a special advisor, Steve Staios just got hired as a player development advisor…there seem to be awful lot of dudes in the Leafs’ front office and I haven’t even mentioned the guy who reads all the stat papers that get sent to Brian Burke and assures him that they’re useless.
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4995

They are fighting over the cost of #4D/top 6-7 forward.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  #206
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
one thing i am sure we all know, but i want to throw it out there, the NHL unless all the rinks are renovated or rebuilt, the NHL will always be behind in revenues to the revenues brought in by the NFL and the MLB, why? because of seating... MSG has 18000+ for hockey games (i dont think that number changes with renovations, correct me if i am wrong on that fact), the Yankees new stadium holds 50000+, Giants 80000+ that is a lot more revenue, almost 3 times the amount of seating for yankees than msg with more home games and almost 4.5 times the amout of seeating for giants than msg however they only have 8 home games, but their tickets are probably more, i have not looked up nfl ticket prices.

I was thinking about this today, but there is a lot of room for the game to grow, but it needs to be in the right places, phoenix is not the right place for growth. I felt this all had do with the CBA so I felt like posting this here. NHL will always be #3 or lower, they have to stay at #3 and grow, they need multiple national TV contracts not just one, that will help grow the game. I would love to see bettman get the axe and some owners step up and finish this cba deal, but i don't think it realistic, but they gotta do something about bettman.

Maineice11 is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:25 PM
  #207
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,173
vCash: 500
You can't know that information if you reject proposals within 15 minutes. Fehr should know, you only get consideration if you negotiate exactly how Bettman wants you to.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #208
AceintheSpace*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
one thing i am sure we all know, but i want to throw it out there, the NHL unless all the rinks are renovated or rebuilt, the NHL will always be behind in revenues to the revenues brought in by the NFL and the MLB, why? because of seating... MSG has 18000+ for hockey games (i dont think that number changes with renovations, correct me if i am wrong on that fact), the Yankees new stadium holds 50000+, Giants 80000+ that is a lot more revenue, almost 3 times the amount of seating for yankees than msg with more home games and almost 4.5 times the amout of seeating for giants than msg however they only have 8 home games, but their tickets are probably more, i have not looked up nfl ticket prices.

I was thinking about this today, but there is a lot of room for the game to grow, but it needs to be in the right places, phoenix is not the right place for growth. I felt this all had do with the CBA so I felt like posting this here. NHL will always be #3 or lower, they have to stay at #3 and grow, they need multiple national TV contracts not just one, that will help grow the game. I would love to see bettman get the axe and some owners step up and finish this cba deal, but i don't think it realistic, but they gotta do something about bettman.
I have images of him as The Count from Sesame Street, counting the number of lockouts, in my head.

AceintheSpace* is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:29 PM
  #209
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
I have images of him as The Count from Sesame Street, counting the number of lockouts, in my head.
holy crap...i see that too now!!! i think i had a great term for him a couple posts ago, sniveling weasel, that is what i think of bettman

Maineice11 is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:51 PM
  #210
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
NHL and union had 2 conference calls this weekend, union supposedly asking questions about NHL proposal. But no negotiations scheduled.
https://twitter.com/helenenothelen/s...35755454742528

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:53 PM
  #211
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
Quote:
Allan Walsh‏@walsha

For every person that used the NFL+NBA as justification for NHL going to 50/50, every NFL/NBA player received full face value of contracts.
THIS! I think bettman points to those leagues being at 50/50 but not at the fact that all contracts are being honored in those leagues

Maineice11 is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 04:55 PM
  #212
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
I've now heard from both sides (NHL/NHLPA) "there's a deal to be made!" Well, time to put your money where your mouth is!
https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...36859466883073

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 05:09 PM
  #213
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Steve Fehr to AP: League has "essentially said that they are not moving off their last proposal."
https://twitter.com/seangentille/sta...39943978991617

Can't find the AP article with the Fehr quote.

Quote:
“We had a conference call today to answer some of their questions,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Associated Press in an email Sunday. “No bargaining. And no bargaining meetings scheduled.”

Daly and NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr also had discussions on Saturday. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and union executive director Donald Fehr didn’t take part in Sunday’s conference call, Daly said.
Read more: NHL, union still talking but not negotiating - Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz29ySWiyMr


Last edited by RangerBoy: 10-21-2012 at 05:19 PM.
RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 05:14 PM
  #214
silverfish
Player Usage
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 19,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
THIS! I think bettman points to those leagues being at 50/50 but not at the fact that all contracts are being honored in those leagues
The owners proposal had the players getting their full share of their money, just not the way the players want their contracts honored (and not in a fair way really either). Instead of negotiating off of that, the PA brought 3 new offers to Bettman and the league that they knew were unacceptable offers, rather than negotiating off the building block that they had gotten from the league.

(deleted brainfart). Would you like the owners to honor the contracts they're handing out? You betcha Sally Baby. Fact is, they don't have to.


Last edited by silverfish: 10-21-2012 at 05:56 PM.
silverfish is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 05:32 PM
  #215
Maineice11
Registered User
 
Maineice11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 6,446
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Maineice11
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
The owners proposal had the players getting their full share of their money, just not the way the players want their contracts honored (and not in a fair way really either). Instead of negotiating off of that, the PA brought 3 new offers to Bettman and the league that they knew were unacceptable offers, rather than negotiating off the building block that they had gotten from the league.

No NHL contracts are guaranteed though. Would you like the owners to honor the contracts they're handing out? You betcha Sally Baby. Fact is, they don't have to.
My name is not Sally...haha

and yes, i know all that, and it all makes sense what you said and how you have summarized the recent events...and i agree with you, but the nhl contracts are guaranteed, i am not sure how to word this, but the money on them is dependant on the current cba and how much goes to escrow, i don't know how legally they are written, but unlike the nfl they are guaranteed contracts, just the money is somewhat uncertain by the cba and escrow numbers

Maineice11 is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 05:55 PM
  #216
silverfish
Player Usage
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 19,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
My name is not Sally...haha

and yes, i know all that, and it all makes sense what you said and how you have summarized the recent events...and i agree with you, but the nhl contracts are guaranteed, i am not sure how to word this, but the money on them is dependant on the current cba and how much goes to escrow, i don't know how legally they are written, but unlike the nfl they are guaranteed contracts, just the money is somewhat uncertain by the cba and escrow numbers
Haha I know, well I don't know actually, because I don't know your name Just throwing in a quote from Rookie of the Year

And yeah, epic brainfart there, I should've remembered that NHL contracts are guaranteed under the CBA.

silverfish is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 06:59 PM
  #217
vladmyir111
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 50
Interesting optics on lockouts in general

Kind of amazing to think when you are talking about the top 4 major pro sports in this country, but think back to the NFL and NBA disputes recently.

Did anyone watching those as a casual observer ever think it would go a whole season or maybe more than a few games?

Hell I was ecstatic when the NBA lockout actually lasted a few weeks that the Rangers didn't have to compete with the Knicks for a bit over MSG2.

Compare those thoughts to the fact that we are here actually sitting in fear over the whole season getting cancelled? What kind of a **** bag mickey mouse league do we have here?

vladmyir111 is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 09:10 PM
  #218
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
If you really pay attention to what Fehr has said it is quite clear that his stance is that the players should not give up a nickle. Of course he has stated that they will but it is shroded in a mumbers war.

But read his proposals and the speech he made the other day referring to the backdrop of this whole thing.

Fehr is holding the last negotiation (04-05) and the rollback against the owners.

He has stated multiple times that the league is growing in revenues and therefore the players should not have to move an inch. In fact, Fehr would take a bigger percentage if he could.

This is a disaster. Donald Fehr is a negotiator. He probably never watched a game of hockey in his entire life. This is a legal beagle game of chicken for him. He has zero skin in the game. He is making millions off this so called negotiation and the longer this goes on he makes more and more. Anybody really believe Fehr is hanging around after this is all said and done? This is his retirement fight

I would not be shocked if we lose two seasons.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 09:28 PM
  #219
ltrangerfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
If you really pay attention to what Fehr has said it is quite clear that his stance is that the players should not give up a nickle. Of course he has stated that they will but it is shroded in a mumbers war.

But read his proposals and the speech he made the other day referring to the backdrop of this whole thing.

Fehr is holding the last negotiation (04-05) and the rollback against the owners.

He has stated multiple times that the league is growing in revenues and therefore the players should not have to move an inch. In fact, Fehr would take a bigger percentage if he could.

This is a disaster. Donald Fehr is a negotiator. He probably never watched a game of hockey in his entire life. This is a legal beagle game of chicken for him. He has zero skin in the game. He is making millions off this so called negotiation and the longer this goes on he makes more and more. Anybody really believe Fehr is hanging around after this is all said and done? This is his retirement fight

I would not be shocked if we lose two seasons.
For the first time in a month I'm beginning to believe that the players are starting to understand where they are at. Fehr will not be their salvation.

I look for a new proposal, most likely midweek from the PA that leads to a negotiation with the NHL needing to kick in some goodwill. Look for a settlement by next weekend or I fear we'll be back to my original Jan start deadline.

If the players really need revenge for the past lockouts, perhaps a couple off years will be in order.

For the first time in awhile I'm a bit more bullish on an agreement.

ltrangerfan is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #220
silverfish
Player Usage
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 19,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
If you really pay attention to what Fehr has said it is quite clear that his stance is that the players should not give up a nickle. Of course he has stated that they will but it is shroded in a mumbers war.

But read his proposals and the speech he made the other day referring to the backdrop of this whole thing.

Fehr is holding the last negotiation (04-05) and the rollback against the owners.

He has stated multiple times that the league is growing in revenues and therefore the players should not have to move an inch. In fact, Fehr would take a bigger percentage if he could.

This is a disaster. Donald Fehr is a negotiator. He probably never watched a game of hockey in his entire life. This is a legal beagle game of chicken for him. He has zero skin in the game. He is making millions off this so called negotiation and the longer this goes on he makes more and more. Anybody really believe Fehr is hanging around after this is all said and done? This is his retirement fight

I would not be shocked if we lose two seasons.
I don't think there's a chance in hell that anyone would let that happen. Though, if you asked me in the 02-03 season if I thought hockey would be out of commission 2 times in the next decade, I would have said the same thing

(granted I was 12 years old, and probably a bit naive )

silverfish is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 09:47 PM
  #221
Gatorade*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I don't think there's a chance in hell that anyone would let that happen. Though, if you asked me in the 02-03 season if I thought hockey would be out of commission 2 times in the next decade, I would have said the same thing

(granted I was 12 years old, and probably a bit naive )
I am in my 40's and am skeptical by nature. So temper what I say with that info.

However, this one is a little different. I have observed Bettman and respect that he is ruthless. Doesn't mean I like it or him.

Fehr was hired to win a battle. He could care less about hockey or the fans. Why should he? I doubt he has ever watched a game in his life.

This situation is going to be incredibly ugly.

We already know the owners are willing to axe a full season and it appears that the players are fully behind a guy who is all in on winning a so called negotiation.

Fehr has the players believing that they gave back years ago with no need to do it again. This is a young player base. Players are conditioned to follow a leader. This is a full out labor disaster.

Gatorade* is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 09:58 PM
  #222
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 120,296
vCash: 302
I also believe we will lose 2 seasons

Just look at the low IQ level of the union members ,, They dont even realize they are following him off a cliff

NHLPA coup that put in Fehr power signaled the reality that 2012-13 would be lost and the players will still believe the BS he feeds them (And the Hardliners spread) that they wont lose in this fight

Simple reality is players will eventually cave and take a deal much worse and they will say "This fight was pointless" just like last time

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 10:02 PM
  #223
silverfish
Player Usage
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 19,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
I am in my 40's and am skeptical by nature. So temper what I say with that info.

However, this one is a little different. I have observed Bettman and respect that he is ruthless. Doesn't mean I like it or him.

Fehr was hired to win a battle. He could care less about hockey or the fans. Why should he? I doubt he has ever watched a game in his life.

This situation is going to be incredibly ugly.

We already know the owners are willing to axe a full season and it appears that the players are fully behind a guy who is all in on winning a so called negotiation.

Fehr has the players believing that they gave back years ago with no need to do it again. This is a young player base. Players are conditioned to follow a leader. This is a full out labor disaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I also believe we will lose 2 seasons

Just look at the low IQ level of the union members ,, They dont even realize they are following him off a cliff

NHLPA coup that put in Fehr power signaled the reality that 2012-13 would be lost and the players will still believe the BS he feeds them (And the Hardliners spread) that they wont lose in this fight

Simple reality is players will eventually cave and take a deal much worse and they will say "This fight was pointless" just like last time
I just don't see how anyone, players included, could believe that the NHL could possibly be viable if they lost two consecutive seasons. They'd lose nearly all of their fans, including me... Well, at least I hope I'd have the balls to walk away if it ever came to that.

I think there's really no chance two seasons are lost unless those crazy rumors (I hope they're rumors) are true that if this season is lost, the PA will come to the table with offers that nix the salary cap completely.

It's hard to explain, but I feel like the two sides are so close, and so far away at the same time that I just hope they can figure their **** out and put the product back on the ice. But you guys are right, the NHLPA declared war by putting Fehr in place. The NHL declared war with their first offer to the PA. Both sides are out for blood and don't appear to be backing down whatsoever.

I just want NHL hockey back

silverfish is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 10:11 PM
  #224
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 120,296
vCash: 302
The players have shown they are more concerned with getting "Revenge for 05" then gettin deal done

The economy (Costs , etc) is vastly different then 2004/05.. And the fact NHL players share is 57% far in excess of rest of NA sports shows the issues NHL has need to be addressed

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
10-21-2012, 10:58 PM
  #225
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Rimer is **** and doesn't know **** about ****

Levitate is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:12 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.