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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
10-21-2012, 07:08 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I think Morrow replaced by Stamkos
I think Marlaeu replaced by Giroux
I think Thornton replaced by Benn
I think Iginla replaced by Seguin

Crosby- Stamkos- Giroux
Toews-Nash-Richards
Getzlaf-Perry-Benn
Bergeron-Seguin-E. Staal

I really have no idea if I want Benn or Staal. Jordan. Im sure most of u will want Jordan, i really dont know. I think it will be down to these two... Size for a big reason. After them Canada will prob be looking at Skinner or Eberle.

It will come down for the next few years, lets see who grows.
Did Tavares beat you up or something? Is there some reason you consistently leave him off the team and don't seem to consider him?

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10-21-2012, 09:12 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
That's the first time I've ever heard anyone question any of those players skating ability. None of those players you mentioned are poor skaters, or even medicore skaters. They're all at the very least good skaters (Not being elite does not equal being medicore or poor), and the only one up that definitely won't make the team is Heatley, and his skating isn't the reason he's not going to make the team.

By you're considerations, Morrow - Getzlaf - Perry would be a horrible skating line yet they were arguably Canada's most effective line last olympics (Even if they weren't the most productive).
Agreed that Getzlaf-Morrow-Perry was a very effective line for us in 2010, but keep in mind that that tournament was played on the NHL-sized ice surface. That line was dominant on the forecheck and working the cycle down low in the offensive zone, but that strategy becomes way less effective on the international ice surface when speed and creativity become more important. Essentially, we'll need to move away from a dump-and-chase style that worked for the Getzlaf and Thornton lines in 2010.

If you look back to 2002, on the international ice surface, great skaters like Gagne, (young) Iginla, Fleury, Sakic, and Kariya were amongst our best players, while bigger/slower players like Shanahan, Nolan, and Lindros weren't as productive and never seemed to find their game on the larger ice surface.

In any event, speed, or lack thereof, won't keep Giroux or Eberle off the team. They don't possess elite speed, but they're good enough. Perry either, assuming he gets back to 40-goal form. Its important that we bring along faster wingers like Hall and Seguin to balance out the lines, though. Speed may become a factor for Getzlaf unless he reverts back to his 80-90 point form from a few years back, in which case it will be hard to leave him off. However, at this point I've got to think that Hockey Canada is planning on moving in a different direction with respect to Getzlaf; 9 goals from a scoring line center isn't going to cut it. Benn is a longshot regardless of his skating ability. Agreed on Heatley, he's not making the team either way, but I'm sticking by my position that the guy is simply a terrible skater at this point in his career.

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10-21-2012, 09:27 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I think Morrow replaced by Stamkos
I think Marlaeu replaced by Giroux
I think Thornton replaced by Benn
I think Iginla replaced by Seguin

Crosby- Stamkos- Giroux
Toews-Nash-Richards
Getzlaf-Perry-Benn
Bergeron-Seguin-E. Staal

I really have no idea if I want Benn or Staal. Jordan. Im sure most of u will want Jordan, i really dont know. I think it will be down to these two... Size for a big reason. After them Canada will prob be looking at Skinner or Eberle.

It will come down for the next few years, lets see who grows.


Defense... idk i really think it will be down to keith or Phanuef and one way or another hes on his way to wearing the maple leaf. He might go to Russia as a 6 def. I dont see Marc Staal getting yet
Again, size matters a lot less on the international ice surface. You should be looking more at guys like Tavares (seriously - he's a lock for a scoring line role at this point), and Hall to add some speed to that lineup.

Keith vs. Phaneuf...hmmmmm....

I simply don't get your fascination with Phaneuf. Good NHLer, progressed quite a bit from his rookie year actually, but still isn't Olympic quality. He gives us nothing that Weber doesn't (which Weber does at a much higher level). Keith, Doughty, and Pietrangelo are better all-around defencemen - you have to admit that. Letang is our offensive guy, our PP QB, much like Boyle was in 2010. In Seabrook and Staal, you have excellent defensive defencemen that you can ask to PK, and play a regular shift on ES. Seabrook has chemistry with Keith, which helps, and loads of playoff experience with the Hawks. Staal is carving out a reputation as an elite shut-down defender, which we'll certainly need. Staal is a LHer too, which we're short of at the Olympic-caliber level. Neither guy has a history of poor decision-making like Phaneuf - they're safe, solid defencemen, the kind of guys you need to win a 7-game Olympic tournament. Phaneuf hasn't played a playoff game in years, and didn't excel at the WHCs this past spring, so he's not exactly building a strong case for himself.

By the way, I really don't think Phaneuf was seriously considered for 2010 either, with the insiders like MacKenzie talking about the last few spots at defense coming down to Doughty, Bouwmeester, and Robidas.

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10-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #529
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Phaneuf is a lock.... to no make the team



guys who are ahead, in no order

Weber
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Keith
Letang
Hamhuis
Seabrook
Staal
Myers
Vlasic
Alzner
Del Zotto
Cowen
Coburn
Burns


is the short list imo

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10-21-2012, 10:34 AM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Phaneuf is a lock.... to no make the team



guys who are ahead, in no order
Weber
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Keith
Letang
Hamhuis
Seabrook
Staal
Myers
Vlasic
Alzner
Del Zotto
Cowen
Coburn
Burns


is the short list imo
No Subban, but you have Vlasic, Alzner, MDZ, Burns & Cowen ?

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10-21-2012, 10:43 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
No Subban, but you have Vlasic, Alzner, MDZ, Burns & Cowen ?


yes Subban is there. In fact I think he should make it

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10-21-2012, 11:21 AM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Agreed that Getzlaf-Morrow-Perry was a very effective line for us in 2010, but keep in mind that that tournament was played on the NHL-sized ice surface. That line was dominant on the forecheck and working the cycle down low in the offensive zone, but that strategy becomes way less effective on the international ice surface when speed and creativity become more important. Essentially, we'll need to move away from a dump-and-chase style that worked for the Getzlaf and Thornton lines in 2010.

If you look back to 2002, on the international ice surface, great skaters like Gagne, (young) Iginla, Fleury, Sakic, and Kariya were amongst our best players, while bigger/slower players like Shanahan, Nolan, and Lindros weren't as productive and never seemed to find their game on the larger ice surface.

In any event, speed, or lack thereof, won't keep Giroux or Eberle off the team. They don't possess elite speed, but they're good enough. Perry either, assuming he gets back to 40-goal form. Its important that we bring along faster wingers like Hall and Seguin to balance out the lines, though. Speed may become a factor for Getzlaf unless he reverts back to his 80-90 point form from a few years back, in which case it will be hard to leave him off. However, at this point I've got to think that Hockey Canada is planning on moving in a different direction with respect to Getzlaf; 9 goals from a scoring line center isn't going to cut it. Benn is a longshot regardless of his skating ability. Agreed on Heatley, he's not making the team either way, but I'm sticking by my position that the guy is simply a terrible skater at this point in his career.
I'm not saying all those guys you mentioned will make the team (I personally don't think Getzlaf or Heatley make it) but you're making their skating sound a lot worse than it is. I've never heard someone crticize Eberle/Girouxs speed, and personally I don't know what you're talking about when you call Perry a poor skating an Benn a medicore skater. Benn's a great skater actually.

And I don't know why you keep calling Benn a longshot, he's actually a good bet to make the team, I'd be surprised if he doesn't.

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10-21-2012, 02:16 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I'm not saying all those guys you mentioned will make the team (I personally don't think Getzlaf or Heatley make it) but you're making their skating sound a lot worse than it is. I've never heard someone crticize Eberle/Girouxs speed, and personally I don't know what you're talking about when you call Perry a poor skating an Benn a medicore skater. Benn's a great skater actually.

And I don't know why you keep calling Benn a longshot, he's actually a good bet to make the team, I'd be surprised if he doesn't.
I'm not critcizing Giroux or Eberle, actually. They're both OK/good skaters - not blazing fast, not poor - but good. It is what it is. Its not an issue for them as they'll most likely make the team anyway (Giroux definitely will, Eberle is a probable at this point). Perry is a poor skater; watch him next time the Ducks play. That's always been a criticism of him. He's great in the offensive zone, but lacks the footspeed to get back quickly on the backcheck. If he makes the team, which is obviously dependent on how he performs whenever the NHL gets around to playing again, he'll need to get some cover from his linemates from a defensive perspective.

Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on Benn by calling him a "long-shot", but I personally wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make the team. He wasn't all that great at the WHCs, which was a great opportunity for him to differentiate himself, but he'll be shortlisted and scouted by Hockey Canada so he's certainly a possibility at LW, but probably not at center. Right now, I have Tavares, E. Staal, M. Richards, and probably Hall ahead of him right now at LW. Nash can play either wing, and I have him ahead of Benn right now as well. We need Hall's speed, which is why I have him on my roster.

My original response to that particular poster (don't think it was actually your post) was to the fact that the poster had lined-up those 6 players on two lines, whereas on the international ice we'll need to somehow work-in some real speed (as in Stamkos, Toews, Hall, Seguin, Crosby, E. Staal) on each line. I just don't think those two lines would work well, more from a defensive standpoint than anything, due to the defensive awareness and overall speed of those 6 players.

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10-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post


yes Subban is there. In fact I think he should make it
My bad

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10-21-2012, 02:55 PM
  #535
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Nash - Crosby - Stamkos (Powerhouse line)
M.Richards - Toews - Giroux (2way line with scoring touch)
Hall - Tavares - Eberle
(Young guns scoring line)
J. Staal - Bergeron - E. Staal
(Shutdown line with E. Staal for a bit more offense maybe switch him with Benn)
Extra: Skinner or Seguin or E. Kane.

Doughty - Weber
(Shutdown studs)
Pietrangelo- Letang
(2way combo)
Seabrook - Subban
(2way combo)
Extra: Myers or Keith

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Old
10-21-2012, 03:31 PM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
I'm not critcizing Giroux or Eberle, actually. They're both OK/good skaters - not blazing fast, not poor - but good. It is what it is. Its not an issue for them as they'll most likely make the team anyway (Giroux definitely will, Eberle is a probable at this point). Perry is a poor skater; watch him next time the Ducks play. That's always been a criticism of him. He's great in the offensive zone, but lacks the footspeed to get back quickly on the backcheck. If he makes the team, which is obviously dependent on how he performs whenever the NHL gets around to playing again, he'll need to get some cover from his linemates from a defensive perspective.

Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on Benn by calling him a "long-shot", but I personally wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make the team. He wasn't all that great at the WHCs, which was a great opportunity for him to differentiate himself, but he'll be shortlisted and scouted by Hockey Canada so he's certainly a possibility at LW, but probably not at center. Right now, I have Tavares, E. Staal, M. Richards, and probably Hall ahead of him right now at LW. Nash can play either wing, and I have him ahead of Benn right now as well. We need Hall's speed, which is why I have him on my roster.

My original response to that particular poster (don't think it was actually your post) was to the fact that the poster had lined-up those 6 players on two lines, whereas on the international ice we'll need to somehow work-in some real speed (as in Stamkos, Toews, Hall, Seguin, Crosby, E. Staal) on each line. I just don't think those two lines would work well, more from a defensive standpoint than anything, due to the defensive awareness and overall speed of those 6 players.
Canada has shown they really don't care about performance at the World Championships unleses you were horrible, they just care that players want to represent Canada, and Benn really wasn't bad. Benn can play all 3 forward positions so that's makes him extremely valuable (Played RW in his first season, LW and centre in his second and centre his third), he's able to play in all situations (Already shown he can play at high end offensive level, and has always shown the ability to play strong defensively).

If Hall doesn't get a top 6 role the only other job he'll get is 13th forward. Benn can play any role in the forward core and I think you're underrating his speed.

For bottom six type guys, there really aren't many better options than Benn.

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10-21-2012, 04:30 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Canada has shown they really don't care about performance at the World Championships unleses you were horrible, they just care that players want to represent Canada, and Benn really wasn't bad. Benn can play all 3 forward positions so that's makes him extremely valuable (Played RW in his first season, LW and centre in his second and centre his third), he's able to play in all situations (Already shown he can play at high end offensive level, and has always shown the ability to play strong defensively).

If Hall doesn't get a top 6 role the only other job he'll get is 13th forward. Benn can play any role in the forward core and I think you're underrating his speed.

For bottom six type guys, there really aren't many better options than Benn.
I definitely see Benn as a sizable longshot. There are quite a few young guys that are of similar quality, but fairly or not many of them have bigger profiles than Benn.

As far as the World Championships go, I do think it has some impact on Olympic selection. I'm not sure that guys like Smyth or Doan get on Olympic teams without their WC participation. There are other young guys trying to make Team Canada who have been more impressive at the World Championships like Eberle, Skinner and Kane among bubble players.

Benn's skating is fine, but he definitely isn't elite in that regard. I don't think that his ability to play different forward positions will benefit him much either. Canada is loaded with players who can work at centre or wing, and there isn't a single position that is weak depth wise. I do agree that Benn is helped by being a viable bottom 6 candidate, but on Canada I doubt there are even a lot of open spots at that level.

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10-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Did Tavares beat you up or something? Is there some reason you consistently leave him off the team and don't seem to consider him?
Idk why haha. Seriously, i literally forget him. Then when I remember him, I forget someone else. Its Team Canada, kind of easy to forget some people.


He is def going to be considered for this team... idk where i put him.

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10-21-2012, 05:48 PM
  #539
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Crosby- Staal- Stamkos
Toews- Nash- Richards
Getzlaf- Perry- Giroux
Taveras- Seguin- Heatly

Bergeron Skinner, Eberle, Benn...
Skinner or Benn will probably be the two in the final 13th spot

Pretty hard roster, I think im caught now that Bergeron will not make this team but hes still be heavily considered.

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10-21-2012, 06:00 PM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Crosby- Staal- Stamkos
Toews- Nash- Richards
Getzlaf- Perry- Giroux
Taveras- Seguin- Heatly

Bergeron Skinner, Eberle, Benn...
Skinner or Benn will probably be the two in the final 13th spot

Pretty hard roster, I think im caught now that Bergeron will not make this team but hes still be heavily considered.

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10-21-2012, 06:08 PM
  #541
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The problem with this thread is that we have no idea how much Skinner, Kane, Seguin, Couture, Duchene, Nugent-Hopkins and more will improve, so if you put more than one or two on your team you get flamed.


Crosby
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Toews
Eberle

are locked in. Anyone who says otherwise is 100% wrong.

7 spots left. Short list:

Spezza
Bergeron
Marchand
Seguin
Staal
Staal
Skinner
Kane
St. Louis
Hartnell
Neal
Nash
Iginla
Nugent-Hopkins
Hall
O'Reilly
Duchene
Heatley
Marleau
Thornton
Couture
Richards
Carter
Getzlaf
Perry
Benn
Perron
Sharp



I pick

Bergeron
Seguin
Kane
Nugent-Hopkins
Getzlaf
Perry
Benn



Stamkos - Crosby - Giroux
Benn - Toews - Bergeron
Tavares - Getzlaf - Perry
Kane - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Seguin

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10-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
The problem with this thread is that we have no idea how much Skinner, Kane, Seguin, Couture, Duchene, Nugent-Hopkins and more will improve, so if you put more than one or two on your team you get flamed.


Crosby
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Toews
Eberle

are locked in. Anyone who says otherwise is 100% wrong.

7 spots left. Short list:

Spezza
Bergeron
Marchand
Seguin
Staal
Staal
Skinner
Kane
St. Louis
Hartnell
Neal
Nash
Iginla
Nugent-Hopkins
Hall
O'Reilly
Duchene
Heatley
Marleau
Thornton
Couture
Richards
Carter
Getzlaf
Perry
Benn
Perron
Sharp



I pick

Bergeron
Seguin
Kane
Nugent-Hopkins
Getzlaf
Perry
Benn



Stamkos - Crosby - Giroux
Benn - Toews - Bergeron
Tavares - Getzlaf - Perry
Kane - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Seguin
As an Oiler fan, I agree that especially in two years time, RNH will be good enough for the olympics. He turned the worst PP into the top 3 best PP's in the entire league by himself, that alone should have him on the team. He is fast, and has some of the best vision I've seen in a long time aside from a few players. Take into the fact he did this as a 18 year old, 170 pound rookie and there's no real way you can not put him on the roster at this point in time even if it's as a winger.

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10-21-2012, 07:02 PM
  #543
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After seeing ESPN's 25 under 25 list, Canada looks GREAT for years and years to come.

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10-21-2012, 09:20 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
I definitely see Benn as a sizable longshot. There are quite a few young guys that are of similar quality, but fairly or not many of them have bigger profiles than Benn.

As far as the World Championships go, I do think it has some impact on Olympic selection. I'm not sure that guys like Smyth or Doan get on Olympic teams without their WC participation. There are other young guys trying to make Team Canada who have been more impressive at the World Championships like Eberle, Skinner and Kane among bubble players.

Benn's skating is fine, but he definitely isn't elite in that regard. I don't think that his ability to play different forward positions will benefit him much either. Canada is loaded with players who can work at centre or wing, and there isn't a single position that is weak depth wise. I do agree that Benn is helped by being a viable bottom 6 candidate, but on Canada I doubt there are even a lot of open spots at that level.
I don't see why there wouldn't be an open spot.

Let's consider that these players won't be back (Some definitely have no chance, some have a bit of a chance):

Getzlaf, Marleau, Heatley, Morrow, Iginla, Thornton. Six guys we'll assume won't make the team. How many players that weren't on the 2010 team are locks for the 2014 team? Stamkos, Tavares and Giroux, with Eberle being a likely player but I wouldn't say a lock. All those guys are going to take top six sptos, and 2 of the guys I took out (Getzlaf and Morrow) were bottom six guys, and Canada always takes double-threat guys for the bottom six. Who is better than Benn for one of those roles? I can't think of anyone.

Rick Nash - Sidney Crosby - Jordan Eberle
Steven Stamkos - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn - Jonathan Toews - Corey Pery
Mike Richards - Eric Staal - Patrice Bergeron
Logan Couture/Evander Kane/Tyler Seguin/Jeff Skinner

I don't see any mobility problems in that bottom six.

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10-21-2012, 10:07 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I think Morrow replaced by Stamkos
I think Marlaeu replaced by Giroux
I think Thornton replaced by Benn
I think Iginla replaced by Seguin

Crosby- Stamkos- Giroux
Toews-Nash-Richards
Getzlaf-Perry-Benn
Bergeron-Seguin-E. Staal

I really have no idea if I want Benn or Staal. Jordan. Im sure most of u will want Jordan, i really dont know. I think it will be down to these two... Size for a big reason. After them Canada will prob be looking at Skinner or Eberle.

It will come down for the next few years, lets see who grows.


Defense... idk i really think it will be down to keith or Phanuef and one way or another hes on his way to wearing the maple leaf. He might go to Russia as a 6 def. I dont see Marc Staal getting yet
There's no way Benn makes it over Eberle, imo.

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10-21-2012, 10:12 PM
  #546
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How do I delete a post? lol


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 10-21-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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10-21-2012, 10:14 PM
  #547
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If Heatly makes it I'm going to throw a chair; especially if Eberle doesn't make the team because of him.

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10-22-2012, 02:09 AM
  #548
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Did Tavares beat you up or something? Is there some reason you consistently leave him off the team and don't seem to consider him?
No doubt, Tavares > Seguin any day of the week.

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10-22-2012, 09:34 AM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Rick Nash - Sidney Crosby - Jordan Eberle
Steven Stamkos - John Tavares - Claude Giroux
Jamie Benn - Jonathan Toews - Corey Pery
Mike Richards - Eric Staal - Patrice Bergeron
Logan Couture/Evander Kane/Tyler Seguin/Jeff Skinner

I don't see any mobility problems in that bottom six.
Good lineup; the only difference between my lineup and yours is that I have Hall, you have Benn. Hall has game-changing speed coming down the wing which I truly believe we'll need on the larger ice surface. We'll need to see if he can stay healthy, though....

I have Seguin in my forward group too; he has good chemistry with Bergeron, is playoff tested, has excellent speed, and has been well-coached so far in his young career so he's not a defensive liability. Jordan Staal and Patrick Sharp would be next on my shortlist, and to me the big "what if" is how Getzlaf plays this year (or whenever the lockout ends).

Tavares - Crosby - Eberle
Hall - Stamkos - Giroux
Richards - Toews - Perry
E. Staal - Bergeron - Nash
Seguin

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10-22-2012, 09:56 AM
  #550
Thesensation19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
After seeing ESPN's 25 under 25 list, Canada looks GREAT for years and years to come.
Canada always looks great lmao. They looked great in the 70s and 80s in the olympics when pros werent even allowed.

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