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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
10-13-2012, 07:08 PM
  #126
Doctor Drej
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I should be watching Lightning hockey right now.

*******s.

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10-16-2012, 09:57 AM
  #127
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Tonight would have been opening night at the Forum.

This sucks.

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10-16-2012, 12:42 PM
  #128
TheDaysOf 04
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https://twitter.com/kevin_mcgran
Quote:
#nhl offers 50-50 split, drop puck nov 2. nhlpa studying offer. full 82 game sked
Quote:
Fehr; happy to receive offer. will review. back in touch with nhl maybe today or tomorrow
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet
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Free Agency would be at 28 and 8 years of service.
Quote:
Entry Level Contracts would be 4 years in Length
Quote:
Revenue sharing would be at or near 200 million dollars
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Contract Lengths would be 5 years.
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Arbitration would still exist

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10-16-2012, 03:01 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
NHL players in AHL would count as part of cap.

ELC's remaining at 3 years.

Depending on how the first one works out, I wouldn't mind it if the Rangers got dinged on Wade Redden, but not on the guys on two-way deals.

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Old
10-16-2012, 03:25 PM
  #130
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50:50, no rollback... sounds fair!

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:24 PM
  #131
Going Back to Cally
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If this doesn't get it done the players will have no excuse and I'll probably block Nate Thompson retweets of random pro NHLPA articles.

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:53 PM
  #132
Felonious Python
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Originally Posted by Patilevski View Post
If this doesn't get it done the players will have no excuse and I'll probably block Nate Thompson retweets of random pro NHLPA articles.
It's sounds like an okay proposal from a PR perspective, and now people are excited about the prospect of a season.

Time will tell what the details are that leads the PA to rejecting it.

Inside a secret NHL focus group
http://deadspin.com/5951872

The last page of the survey copies large portions of Puck Daddy's article on what we lost opening night.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...0038--nhl.html


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-16-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 07:35 PM
  #133
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The thought that this could actually get resolved has me really optimistic. I'd pretty much written given up hope in September of this season actually happening.

Of course...now we wait.

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Old
10-17-2012, 04:33 AM
  #134
Felonious Python
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Items not addressed in NHL offer: minimum salary, buyout formulae, possibility of player amnesty. Will be interesting to see them addressed.
https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/stat...w_p=tweetembed

This deal isn't a "sign right here" kind of thing, minimum salary is a significant issue, and will need to be negotiated.

The buyout formuale could use some work, which I don't doubt both sides have some ideas on, as it wasn't an effective enough system to get teams to buy-out player contracts, but also substantive enough that the PA will agree to it as fair for them. Of course, the thing that threw a monkey wrench into those works was the AHL loophole. Close that, and they run out of options to stuff these guys in the minors for their careers to rot away. Leaving a buy-out as the real alternative.

Loans to Europe may become possibility the alternate course, and all these lockouts are leaving guys with friends and connections in Europe for them to go.

Player amnesty should only come into play if there's a major economic change in the way teams have to be run, which I don't see happening this time. At any rate 'player amnesty' is code for 'management amnesty' to get a 'get out of jail free' card on a bad contract (or contracts) they signed.

This is where the PR shift comes into play, if the PA starts feeling the heat from fans to get a deal done, they may feel compelled to concede on the issues not addressed by the NHL's proposal, which would all end up favoring the owners.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-17-2012 at 04:55 AM.
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Old
10-17-2012, 10:53 AM
  #135
TheDaysOf 04
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The NHL's full CBA proposal

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=407542
Quote:
The first official NHLPA reaction to the NHL offer is in -- NHLPA executive director Don Fehr sent a letter to all players and agents last night -- and not unexpectedly the league's proposal wasn't met with great enthusiasm.

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Old
10-17-2012, 06:31 PM
  #136
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http://www2.tbo.com/sports/breaking-.../tbo.ly/S48RwU
Quote:
"This is definitely a positive, we are hoping that it's good and it starts the real negotiations now and they will be willing to talk to us and try to bang something out there quickly,'' said Lightning forward B.J. Crombeen, a member of the NHLPA's negotiating committee. "But it's a cautious optimism to see how they respond when we submit our next proposal.''

That counter proposal is expected to be delivered on Thursday when the two sides are scheduled to meet at NHLPA offices in Toronto. That might finally begin the type of back-and-forth between the sides that has been lacking since the CBA expired on Sept. 15 and the lockout began.
Quote:
"This really looks a little bit more like a legitimate offer and was met with some optimism, but it's still massive concessions from the players,'' Crombeen said. "I think it's pretty easy to forget that what they agreed to (under the previous CBA) was 57 percent (of revenues). And their proposal right now, even though it is a lot closer and a lot better, it's still a massive rollback in money that we are going to get paid and in the rights that we have.''

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10-17-2012, 06:48 PM
  #137
IdealisticSniper
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Bottom line with this NHL offer:

If the players reject it on the basis of it being 50/50, seeing as HRR stays defined the same, then they are a joke. Period.

Its fine if they come back with changes to other things and they go from there. But if they try to get another couple of percent, then **** them. They can all rot in Europe. Bump all the other leagues up by one and lets get going.

Who cares if they previously agreed to 57%, 57% when they agreed to it was a hell of a lot less money than what they got paid the next 6 years. And I would bet that a 50% share is probably close to if not more than what they agreed to get paid originally.

IF the players come back with their offer and it doesnt follow the same structure as the NHLs, and they try to create their own structure again, then this season and possibly more is definitely lost.

At this point, players need to try to get a few little things like UFA age, ELCs, trade rights, etc and then sign the damn deal. They arent going to get better than a 50/50 split this time and they need to shut the hell up and understand that if they ever want to play hockey again in the NHL, get this done. Boo hoo, you get paid 6M instead of 7M a year. Or you get paid 400K instead of 500K a year.

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10-18-2012, 07:50 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Bottom line with this NHL offer:

If the players reject it on the basis of it being 50/50, seeing as HRR stays defined the same, then they are a joke. Period.

Its fine if they come back with changes to other things and they go from there. But if they try to get another couple of percent, then **** them. They can all rot in Europe. Bump all the other leagues up by one and lets get going.

Who cares if they previously agreed to 57%, 57% when they agreed to it was a hell of a lot less money than what they got paid the next 6 years. And I would bet that a 50% share is probably close to if not more than what they agreed to get paid originally.

IF the players come back with their offer and it doesnt follow the same structure as the NHLs, and they try to create their own structure again, then this season and possibly more is definitely lost.

At this point, players need to try to get a few little things like UFA age, ELCs, trade rights, etc and then sign the damn deal. They arent going to get better than a 50/50 split this time and they need to shut the hell up and understand that if they ever want to play hockey again in the NHL, get this done. Boo hoo, you get paid 6M instead of 7M a year. Or you get paid 400K instead of 500K a year.
So if the players were making 57%, and they sign a 50/50 deal, then where does that 7% go?


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-18-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old
10-18-2012, 03:51 PM
  #139
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Y'know, if we keep taking steps back, maybe the Kings will unwin the Stanley Cup and we can install it's rightful holders.

I find the third-party arbitrator who would rule in cases of "clearly erroneous" judgement to be hilarious. Like that'll ever happen. Where would they even get someone qualified for that? Much less one that doesn't favor one or the the other?

For example, a former ref would probably favor the league, as he spent years enforcing NHL rules and the way they interpret them.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 10-18-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old
10-18-2012, 09:11 PM
  #140
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Last I heard, we would possibly still see a full season. I thought before we would at least lose half the season, and now (after reading what was said about the Player's response) it seems like we are losing half the season again. It is hard for us, normal folk, to sympathize with millionaires who play a game for a living. I do not feel sorry, for either side. I am tired of all of the ********.

I take part of that back; I feel sorry for guys like St. Louis, who are running out of time.

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10-18-2012, 09:16 PM
  #141
IdealisticSniper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
So if the players were making 57%, and they sign a 50/50 deal, then where does that 7% go?
Goes to the owners. Just like last time. Funny enough, 50% currently is more than 57% when they originally signed the previous CBA

One day the NHLPA will learn math.

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10-18-2012, 10:00 PM
  #142
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I knew from the beginning that hiring Fehr was going to be bad for hockey as he ruined baseball too. I understand that the 50/50 deal may not have been ideal but it should have been a big jump start to serious negotiations. At this point, I really don't care anymore - cancel the whole damn season. Don't really miss it right now since football is going on.....maybe come February I might....

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10-19-2012, 04:15 AM
  #143
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Quote:
A flickering sense of hope was quickly replaced by frustration on Thursday after the NHL Players' Association tabled three counter-proposals and had them summarily dismissed by the league.
Quote:
"None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach (a) 50-50 (revenue split), either at all or for some long period of time," Bettman said. "It's clear we're not speaking the same language."

NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr disagreed, saying two of the proposals would see the players take a fixed amount of revenue, which would turn into an approximate 50-50 split over a five-year term of the deal provided league revenues continued to grow.

The third approach would be a 50-50 split, as long as the league honoured all existing contracts at full value — a claim Daly later refuted in a press release. "It is not a 50-50 deal," he said.
Quote:
Bettman described the league's most recent offer, which would see the players' share in revenue reduced seven per cent immediately, as its best one. He also called it fair.

But Fehr said the players could sacrifice nearly $1.8 billion dollars in revenue under that proposal. It is particularly tough to take, according to the NHLPA boss, because he calculates the concessions made by players in the last round of bargaining at $3.3 billion.
Quote:
"I don't know what the next step is," Bettman said. "I'm obviously very discouraged."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407649

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10-19-2012, 07:34 AM
  #144
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Apparently moving the players to 50% of revenues would pay them at the rate that they were making in 2010. Shocking! How dare the owners try and move the players back into the stone ages of professional sports.

I can understand not wanting to take a pay cut. Unfortunately, it's sometimes a part of business. And pretty soon the players that don't receive bonuses or are on LTIR are going to start losing quite a bit more than they would have by taking this latest offer.

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10-19-2012, 11:25 AM
  #145
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Why NHL’s bad faith negotiating damages CBA talk progress (Trending Topics)

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...7696--nhl.html

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Old
10-19-2012, 11:14 PM
  #146
TheDaysOf 04
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https://twitter.com/mirtle
Quote:
Fehr informs players in memo that owners advised "their last offer was, in essence, a take it or leave it offer, subject to 'tweaks only'"

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10-20-2012, 09:03 AM
  #147
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So, pretty much another lost season..

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10-21-2012, 08:05 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Goes to the owners. Just like last time. Funny enough, 50% currently is more than 57% when they originally signed the previous CBA

One day the NHLPA will learn math.
I get your frustration and all, but its not as simple as you're trying to make it out.

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10-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #149
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I get your frustration and all, but its not as simple as you're trying to make it out.
It really is. You can run the numbers any way you want. The NHL offer based on percentage and HRR definition staying the same was more than a fair attempt to end this.

The other things were negotiable I'm sure and could have easily been agree upon.

I've done the math. This lockout should be over but Fehr and the lemming players are too stupid to realize it.

As a perfect example someone ran the numbers on a guy like Parise's contract. Under the NHL proposal he would have lost at MOST I think it was 2M dollars over the life of his contract. Poor Parise only getting 98M instead of 100M.

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10-22-2012, 05:18 PM
  #150
TheDaysOf 04
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You know it's bad when...

https://twitter.com/erlendssontrib
Quote:
Man, NHLPA is really reaching now, trying to use a poll from Bleacher Report to gain PR support #JustNegotiate

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