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10-21-2012, 05:30 PM
  #276
Borjes Baumingdyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
I'm not a fan of John Shannon, but on the fan 590 last week, he went on to say that it is believed throughout the NHL among executives, scouts and media types, the Vancouver media is much harder on players than in Toronto, whereas in the Toronto media it is the coaches and GM's that take the brunt of the criticism, not the players. Shannon also went on to list the 20 or so goalies that played for Vancouver over the years and had challenges. The belief is if Lou comes to Toronto, he would thrive here moreso than in Vancouver.
Well, he would play his beloved Habs 6 times a year with something to prove.

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10-21-2012, 05:44 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
I'm not a fan of John Shannon, but on the fan 590 last week, he went on to say that it is believed throughout the NHL among executives, scouts and media types, the Vancouver media is much harder on players than in Toronto, whereas in the Toronto media it is the coaches and GM's that take the brunt of the criticism, not the players. Shannon also went on to list the 20 or so goalies that played for Vancouver over the years and had challenges. The belief is if Lou comes to Toronto, he would thrive here moreso than in Vancouver.
Luongo has succeeded greatly in Vancouver.

And I think Toronto media is very hard on the players.

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10-21-2012, 05:48 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Luongo has succeeded greatly in Vancouver.

And I think Toronto media is very hard on the players.
I dont disagree one bit. Just posting what was reported by John Shannon, he was having an interview with Blair on Friday of last week.

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10-21-2012, 05:51 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
I dont disagree one bit. Just posting what was reported by John Shannon, he was having an interview with Blair on Friday of last week.
I travel a lot in Canada and the media in Toronto is extremely difficult on everyone compared to every other city. Even Montreal has been much easier on players in recent years.

Go to Ottawa, it's a joke how soft they are on the team.

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10-21-2012, 05:57 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmythesMinions View Post
1 Olli Jokinen
2 Joe Nieuwendyk
3 Jozef Stumpel
4 Nathan Horton
5 Jay Bouwmeester
6 Martin Gelinas
7 Gary Roberts
8 Chris Gratton
9 Mike Van Ryn
10 Juraj Kolnik
11 Stephen Weiss
So I see 2 HHoFers (IMO) Olli, Horton, J-Bo, Gelinas and a young Weiss.....Who on our team now is going to the HHoF?
Jokinen was good. Nieuwendyk was in the twilight of his career, and played less than 65 games in front of Luongo. Jaybo was similar to Phaneuf. Stumpel can probably be compared to Grabovski. Horton was only 20 when Luongo was traded. Weiss had a career high of 29 points. You're looking at these player as if they're in their primes, but a lot of them were rookies/sophomores or on the downside of their career.

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10-21-2012, 06:04 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by SmythesMinions View Post
Well, he would play his beloved Habs 6 times a year with something to prove.
I believe Luongo was and Oiler fan.

Due to Fuhr.

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10-21-2012, 06:08 PM
  #282
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First of all, do we really have any reason to believe that Schneider and his agent were open to the idea of signing an offer sheet?

Second, wouldn't Gillis just matched the offer and then traded Luongo to anywhere but Toronto?
I don't see why they wouldn't if they knew Gillis would have matched the offer, I don't see Gillis walking away from matching a Schneider offer sheet especially when Lu was basically done in Vancouver by saying he would welcome a trade. Burke could have forced Gillis's hand but he didn't. I am sure this is not lost on him when a deal with the Leafs is in the offing.

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10-21-2012, 06:15 PM
  #283
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10-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Luongo has succeeded greatly in Vancouver.

And I think Toronto media is very hard on the players.
I agree with Shannon though.... Toronto is hard on its players.... but in a different way. Here, everything goes back to Burke.

Connolly sucks and is overpaid.... why did Burke sign him?

Kessel is streaky..... why did Burke give up so much?

Phaneuf isn't a leader...... why did Burke make him captain?

Everything goes back to Burke, and Burke takes THE most heat in our organization.

Vancouver.... they don't blame Gillis for anything. They bash the players.

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10-21-2012, 06:25 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Jokinen was good. Nieuwendyk was in the twilight of his career, and played less than 65 games in front of Luongo. Jaybo was similar to Phaneuf. Stumpel can probably be compared to Grabovski. Horton was only 20 when Luongo was traded. Weiss had a career high of 29 points. You're looking at these player as if they're in their primes, but a lot of them were rookies/sophomores or on the downside of their career.
No I'm not looking that way, but I am looking at the fact that the Panthers were equal to if not a little better than what the Leafs are now...Even if Newey was in his "twilight" he's still a HHoFer, when the talent fades the IQ still remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
I believe Luongo was and Oiler fan.
Due to Fuhr.
Hmm, I honestly never knew that, thanks for that caveat. Jewel do you know who was Jammed Lucky?

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10-21-2012, 10:37 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
(...)

If the CBA passes the retirement cap hit goes back to the offending team clause, then Luongo's contract is excellent. You're getting a star goalie for 5 mil/year with no long-term risk. And at 32, he's not old at all.
Why? Will you force him to retire at gun point?

And another clause of the proposed CBA means that you can't bury him in the minors, as the portion over $105K would still count against the cap.

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10-22-2012, 12:07 AM
  #287
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Why? Will you force him to retire at gun point?

And another clause of the proposed CBA means that you can't bury him in the minors, as the portion over $105K would still count against the cap.
In 6 years from now, if Luongo's play has faded, there are several possible scenarios:

Option 1: Luongo feels his career is done, and retires.
Option 2: Luongo still wants to play, and asks to be traded to a cap floor team(such as Florida) where he can play out his contract as a backup with a high cap hit but minimal salary in his preferred destination.
Option 3: Luongo decides to screw everyone over, doesn't retire, and uses his limited NTC to prevent a trade(even to Florida). Management can then force him to play in the minors until he agrees to option 1 or option 2. So unless luongo prefers riding the bus to retirement or Florida, there's not too much risk involved.

That said: Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn, and the Leafs choice of Kadri, Kulemin, or a 1st conditional on playoffs.

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10-22-2012, 12:12 AM
  #288
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Funny how Cannucks fans keep talking about getting value and upgrades to their roster, yet fail to mention one of the most valuable assets in a Lou trade, cap space. There is a good chance that besides a pick and or prospect that may be the return in a trade with the Leafs, a Bozak/Conolly/Lombardi would fill a need while Kessler is out, and each only carry a cap hit for 1 year. While getting out from under a 5.3 cap hit, with the overall cap likely going down with the new CBA.

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10-22-2012, 12:13 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In 6 years from now, if Luongo's play has faded, there are several possible scenarios:

Option 1: Luongo feels his career is done, and retires.
Option 2: Luongo still wants to play, and asks to be traded to a cap floor team(such as Florida) where he can play out his contract as a backup with a high cap hit but minimal salary in his preferred destination.
Option 3: Luongo decides to screw everyone over, doesn't retire, and uses his limited NTC to prevent a trade(even to Florida). Management can then force him to play in the minors until he agrees to option 1 or option 2. So unless luongo prefers riding the bus to retirement or Florida, there's not too much risk involved.

That said: Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn, and the Leafs choice of Kadri, Kulemin, or a 1st conditional on playoffs.
Naaaah, far, far too much.

And which of the Jessicas are you expecting to get a date with, Biel or Alba?

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10-22-2012, 12:29 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In 6 years from now, if Luongo's play has faded, there are several possible scenarios:

Option 1: Luongo feels his career is done, and retires.
Option 2: Luongo still wants to play, and asks to be traded to a cap floor team(such as Florida) where he can play out his contract as a backup with a high cap hit but minimal salary in his preferred destination.
Option 3: Luongo decides to screw everyone over, doesn't retire, and uses his limited NTC to prevent a trade(even to Florida). Management can then force him to play in the minors until he agrees to option 1 or option 2. So unless luongo prefers riding the bus to retirement or Florida, there's not too much risk involved.

That said: Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn, and the Leafs choice of Kadri, Kulemin, or a 1st conditional on playoffs
.
pass the dutchie to the right hand side

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10-22-2012, 12:33 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In 6 years from now, if Luongo's play has faded, there are several possible scenarios:

Option 1: Luongo feels his career is done, and retires.
Option 2: Luongo still wants to play, and asks to be traded to a cap floor team(such as Florida) where he can play out his contract as a backup with a high cap hit but minimal salary in his preferred destination.
Option 3: Luongo decides to screw everyone over, doesn't retire, and uses his limited NTC to prevent a trade(even to Florida). Management can then force him to play in the minors until he agrees to option 1 or option 2. So unless luongo prefers riding the bus to retirement or Florida, there's not too much risk involved.

That said: Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn, and the Leafs choice of Kadri, Kulemin, or a 1st conditional on playoffs.
No offense but just go back to the Vancouver board and stay there.

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10-22-2012, 12:34 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In 6 years from now, if Luongo's play has faded, there are several possible scenarios:

Option 1: Luongo feels his career is done, and retires.
Option 2: Luongo still wants to play, and asks to be traded to a cap floor team(such as Florida) where he can play out his contract as a backup with a high cap hit but minimal salary in his preferred destination.
Option 3: Luongo decides to screw everyone over, doesn't retire, and uses his limited NTC to prevent a trade(even to Florida). Management can then force him to play in the minors until he agrees to option 1 or option 2. So unless luongo prefers riding the bus to retirement or Florida, there's not too much risk involved.

That said: Tyler Bozak, Matt Finn, and the Leafs choice of Kadri, Kulemin, or a 1st conditional on playoffs.
I'm going to stay away from flat out insulting you and keeping this calm . The price you offered is still a tiny bit steep. It's a choice between Finn or Kadri, not both. Also, the 1st is absolutely out of the question given our absolutely **** luck with dealt 1st rounders in the last few seasons. Kulemin's still a big question mark so I'm not sure I'm willing to part with him. Bozak + Finn/Kadri/Colborne + a 2nd I'm more willing to do. We'll probably have to add, but not much.

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10-22-2012, 12:39 AM
  #293
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I'm going to stay away from flat out insulting you and keeping this calm . The price you offered is still a tiny bit steep. It's a choice between Finn or Kadri, not both. Also, the 1st is absolutely out of the question given our absolutely **** luck with dealt 1st rounders in the last few seasons. Kulemin's still a big question mark so I'm not sure I'm willing to part with him. Bozak + Finn/Kadri/Colborne + a 2nd I'm more willing to do. We'll probably have to add, but not much.
Bozak + Kadri + Finn(projected late 1st who went in the 2nd) for Luongo + 3rd.

I'd also like for say that Leafs fans who don't want Luongo(whether because they want to tank or something else), there's no need to be rude about it.

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10-22-2012, 12:45 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bozak + Kadri + Finn(projected late 1st who went in the 2nd) for Luongo + 3rd.
For the last time, no. The only piece I'd be willing to part with in this particular example is Bozak. No Kadri. No Finn. And sure as hell no 1st round pick (yes, I know you didn't propose including a first round pick in this example).

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I'd also like for say that Leafs fans who don't want Luongo(whether because they want to tank or something else), there's no need to be rude about it.
If you want the perceived rudeness to stop, then stop pitching this crap. And it's not a matter of me not wanting Luongo because I want the Leafs to tank. It's a matter of me not wanting Luongo because the price you're proposing (as well as the price I'm sure Gillis is asking for) is too steep for a 33 year old goaltender with the contract Luongo has. Pass.

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10-22-2012, 12:51 AM
  #295
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For the last time, no. The only piece I'd be willing to part with in this particular example is Bozak. No Kadri. No Finn. And sure as hell no 1st round pick (yes, I know you didn't propose including a first round pick in this example).



If you want the perceived rudeness to stop, then stop pitching this crap. And it's not a matter of me not wanting Luongo because I want the Leafs to tank. It's a matter of me not wanting Luongo because the price you're proposing (as well as the price I'm sure Gillis is asking for) is too steep for a 33 year old goaltender with the contract Luongo has. Pass.
Just because you perceive my offer as crap doesn't mean they are. At the end of the day, Gillis is going to do a deal that improves his team. And offers your fellow Leafs fans have proposed have ranged from Reimer one-for-one, to Kadri, Blacker, and 2 conditional 1sts.

Just like Canucks fans offers have ranged from Gardiner, 1st, Frattin, and Bozak(Gillis' alleged asking price) to offers like the one I posted.

People will have variances in opinion. Doesn't mean you should hate.

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10-22-2012, 12:57 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Just because you perceive my offer as crap doesn't mean they are. At the end of the day, Gillis is going to do a deal that improves his team. And offers your fellow Leafs fans have proposed have ranged from Reimer one-for-one, to Kadri, Blacker, and 2 conditional 1sts.

Just like Canucks fans offers have ranged from Gardiner, 1st, Frattin, and Bozak(Gillis' alleged asking price) to offers like the one I posted.

People will have variances in opinion. Doesn't mean you should hate.
There's no hate here. There's idiocy on both sides. Reimer for Luongo straight up is beyond moronic, just as any deal that includes Gardiner, Kadri, Finn, or a 1st round pick is also moronic. Gillis is going to try and get the best deal he can, but unless that deal is (and this is the absolute, balls to the wall, most I am willing to give up) something like Bozak, MacArthur, Blacker and a 2nd rounder, then Gillis can look elsewhere. I really do not want any part of Luongo or that contract unless the trade is a slam dunk win for Toronto.

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10-22-2012, 12:59 AM
  #297
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Meh. This seems pretty normal. Vancouver fans want a kings ransom, Toronto fans want a robbery.

I guess what it comes down to is who the better GM is. If the deal goes down, that is.

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10-22-2012, 01:01 AM
  #298
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There's no hate here. There's idiocy on both sides. Reimer for Luongo straight up is beyond moronic, just as any deal that includes Gardiner, Kadri, Finn, or a 1st round pick is also moronic. Gillis is going to try and get the best deal he can, but unless that deal is (and this is the absolute, balls to the wall, most I am willing to give up) something like Bozak, MacArthur, Blacker and a 2nd rounder, then Gillis can look elsewhere. I really do not want any part of Luongo or that contract unless the trade is a slam dunk win for Toronto.
Why is it idiocy for a Canucks fan not to want to trade the best goalie in our franchise history for a "slam dunk win" for the Leafs?

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10-22-2012, 01:06 AM
  #299
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Why is it idiocy for a Canucks fan not to trade the best goalie in our franchise history for a "slam dunk win" for the Leafs?
Because the reality is there are factors, that will play into that, that are quite obvious. Cap hit for starters as well as age. Burke has said many times, the best deal is when the two clubs making a trade both win. Burke isnt looking to fleece anyone; and to expect the moon for a very good goalie, with factors such as age and cap hit being a consideration, is short sighted and ignorant. I'm sure if a deal were to go down, it will benefit both teams.

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10-22-2012, 01:08 AM
  #300
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Why is it idiocy for a Canucks fan not to want to trade the best goalie in our franchise history for a "slam dunk win" for the Leafs?
It's idiotic to think it's fair for any of Gardiner, Kadri, Finn or a 1st round pick to go your way just as it's idiotic for anyone here to legitimately belive that Gillis is going to allow himself to get fleeced. I really do not see a trade to be made between Vancouver and Toronto here. We're not giving you any of the things you want and you're not giving us Luongo for anything less than the things you want. Sounds like a stalemate to me.

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