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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:42 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
No Scrivens/Reimer coming back. We have Lack as a backup, as well as Cannata eventually, who also looks promising.

I'm not going any lower. Finn, Kadri, Bozak for Luongo + 3rd.

Maybe maybe you could get me to drop the 3rd and swap Kadri for Colborne
, but I have a feeling Kadri's on his way out of TO.
You do realize that you have no say, or control in the matter of a trade involving Lou and the Leafs. I guess make believe here on this board is fun for the youngsters, but once posters realize that what is said and thought of here, has no bearing on true life events, the post and discusions may actually be worth participating in. Why also is Schroeder, and Raymond being mentioned. Reports are the Leafs are interested in Lou, not anyone else.

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10-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Although his ufa at seasons end, I really think the term "rental" is over used considering you would be getting him for the whole season starting from training camp.

I also said we could make minor tweaks to it, Bozak+Kadri+4th/prospect/roster player like Mac for Luongo and Raymond or someone with expiring contract (if Mac is included).
A 4th round pick/equivalent prospect/overpaid player doesn't add much value. It's still just one prospect and an upcoming UFA. Two prospects with a decent ceiling(Kadri, Colborne, Finn, etc) would need to be included for me personally to consider.

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10-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
Although his ufa at season's end, I really think the term "rental" is over used considering you would be getting him for the whole season starting from training camp.

I also said we could make minor tweaks to it, Bozak+Kadri+4th/roster player like Mac for Luongo and Raymond or someone with expiring contract (if Mac is included).
Make it Kulemin and we'll toss in a 2nd too.

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10-22-2012, 12:43 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Luongo + Raymond for Kulemin, Bozak + Colborne/Ashton/Biggs/Blacker/Finn would interest me too. No untouchable pieces from TO in there, but I imagine they wouldn't want to give up Kulemin and Bozak. Our roster would be amazing though.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Kulemin
Higgins-Bozak-Hansen
Malhotra-Lapierre-Kassian
How about Bozak + Mac + Colborne/Ashton/Blacker for Luongo+2nd/Raymond?

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10-22-2012, 12:44 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
You do realize that you have no say, or control in the matter of a trade involving Lou and the Leafs. I guess make believe here on this board is fun for the youngsters, but once posters realize that what is said and thought of here, has no bearing on true life events, the post and discusions may actually be worth participating in.
This is HF. What do you expect? Everyone to say "We have no idea what will actually happen, may as well not speculate on our opinions of fair value."

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10-22-2012, 12:45 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
He won't be part of untouchables but he carries same value as 1st round pick (not ours per say but in general).

So if you want Finn ok. Finn+Mac+Scrivens?
Scrivens doesn't beat out Eddie lack for the backup job...

To Tor- Luongo, Schroeder,
To Van- Bozak, Frattin, Finn, Ashton

Leafs get considerably better while securing all their blue-chip assets.

Canucks solidify the 3rd line and hope 2 of the 3 younger players make a positive impact down the road. Gamble heavily on Matt Finn panning out.

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10-22-2012, 12:46 AM
  #307
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You won't get BOTH kadri AND Finn along with Bozak. Bozak+Kadri/Finn would be main pieces which I think is fair.
this does address needs that the Canucks have and if somehow it could be assured that Bozak could be guraenteed to resign here then I would think this would be close, but there's a lot of risk taking on a possible rental

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10-22-2012, 12:47 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A 4th round pick/equivalent prospect/overpaid player doesn't add much value. It's still just one prospect and an upcoming UFA. Two prospects with a decent ceiling(Kadri, Colborne, Finn, etc) would need to be included for me personally to consider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Make it Kulemin and we'll toss in a 2nd too.
How about Bozak+Kadri+Ashton for Luongo + 3rd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
this does address needs that the Canucks have and if somehow it could be assured that Bozak could be guraenteed to resign here then I would think this would be close, but there's a lot of risk taking on a possible rental
How about we add a prospect/roster player and you add conditional 2nd pick if Bozak re-signs?

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10-22-2012, 12:51 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
How about Bozak + Mac + Colborne/Ashton/Blacker for Luongo+2nd/Raymond?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
How about Bozak+Kadri+Ashton for Luongo + 3rd?
Sorry, but I would have to insist on Kulemin being included. The first offer is just two UFA's plus a B prospect, but the 2nd one is a bit better.

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10-22-2012, 12:52 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
This is HF. What do you expect? Everyone to say "We have no idea what will actually happen, may as well not speculate on our opinions of fair value."
It's the " I wouldnt take anything less than xyz player, otherwise no deal" comments that i find very amusing and juvenile, considering no one has any control or say what may or may not transpire.

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10-22-2012, 12:55 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Scrivens doesn't beat out Eddie lack for the backup job...

To Tor- Luongo, Schroeder, To Van- Bozak, Frattin, Finn, Ashton

Leafs get considerably better while securing all their blue-chip assets.

Canucks solidify the 3rd line and hope 2 of the 3 younger players make a positive impact down the road. Gamble heavily on Matt Finn panning out.
Again with this Schroeder business. Burke and his scouting team have made a concerted effort to draft for size and toughness. Schroeder doesnt match that description even remotely.

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10-22-2012, 12:55 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
How about Bozak+Kadri+Ashton for Luongo + 3rd?
A bit better, but we don't really need any potential 3rd-line forward prospects, what we do lack is a solid defensive prospect. I also believe the Leafs need to add toughness to their roster as well, so Ashton might be good for them to keep. The Leafs however have Gardiner-Gunnarsson-Liles-Rielly and possibly Phaneuf if Carlyle has his way as their left side depth, Finn would make a lot more sense to trade positionally.

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10-22-2012, 12:55 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Sorry, but I would have to insist on Kulemin being included. The first offer is just two UFA's plus a B prospect, but the 2nd one is a bit better.
Not that I think including Kulemin wouldn't be fair in any deal but we really need him. Considering Carlyle coaching now, we simply don't have any other Kulemin's on Leafs really. So it's not as much as value vs necessity that we keep him.

Yeah I really think Bozak+Kadri/Colborne+Ashton for Luongo+3rd is fair and reasonable at the end of the day for both teams to strike a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A bit better, but we don't really need any potential 3rd-line forward prospects, what we do lack is a solid defensive prospect. I also believe the Leafs need to add toughness to their roster as well, so Ashton might be good for them to keep. The Leafs however have Gardiner-Gunnarsson-Liles-Rielly and possibly Phaneuf if Carlyle has his way as their left side depth, Finn would make a lot more sense to trade positionally.
Can change Ashton to Blacker. I prefer Canucks 3rd changed to 2nd, but I wouldn't not make the trade based on that either.

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10-22-2012, 12:58 AM
  #314
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Yeah I really think Bozak+Kadri/Colborne+Ashton for Luongo+3rd is fair and reasonable at the end of the day for both teams to strike a deal.
From everything Gillis has said we need roster players coming back.

That's why Bozak+Frattin+ make sense.

Please no MacArthur.

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10-22-2012, 01:05 AM
  #315
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There are MANY teams who I'd consider Luongo as an upgrade. Only problem is that contract of his. I think Columbus and Toronto are the best two fits.

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10-22-2012, 01:09 AM
  #316
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I am praying that Luongo ends up in Toronto, not because I necessarily want him, but because him being traded to Toronto will finally settle the arguments here about what the Leafs would have to give up to get him!
Exactly, let's hope the lockout is ended with the immediate announcement of the trade and we can all go on talking about how Rielly is the next Bobby Orr.

I actually like Rielly a lot but if he was drafted by Dallas would he get this much traction?

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10-22-2012, 01:10 AM
  #317
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From everything Gillis has said we need roster players coming back.

That's why Bozak+Frattin+ make sense.

Please no MacArthur.
I haven't been following what Gillis has said but do you have link to an interview of something that is recent which he states that?

I know I read over the summer that Gillis himself stated that Canucks may not get a package that would help Canucks right away, but like I said I won't pretend to know what he has said thus far.

It's not that Frattin is untouchable, but I just don't see Burke trading him. His value isn't much higher if any then other guys, but I think Burke would trade kadri/colborne/blacker/etc before Frattin.

Frattin's playoff performance with Marlies run would indicate he won't get dealt. Lots of options though depending if Gillis really would have to get roster players versus prospects on the verge of making it.

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10-22-2012, 01:10 AM
  #318
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Wow, some very reasonable discussion and negotiation going on here.
Unfortunately we all know it will all head downhill again when the homers arrive in the morning.

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10-22-2012, 01:16 AM
  #319
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Not that I think including Kulemin wouldn't be fair in any deal but we really need him. Considering Carlyle coaching now, we simply don't have any other Kulemin's on Leafs really. So it's not as much as value vs necessity that we keep him.

Yeah I really think Bozak+Kadri/Colborne+Ashton for Luongo+3rd is fair and reasonable at the end of the day for both teams to strike a deal.



Can change Ashton to Blacker. I prefer Canucks 3rd changed to 2nd, but I wouldn't not make the trade based on that either.
I think that's definitely in the ballpark of fair and reasonable, but to me it's neither enough of an immediate roster upgrade, nor a good enough futures package to warrant moving Luongo. If the 1st is deemed untouchable then I would have to see Bozak and Kulemin coming back, with Raymond heading your way to offset losing Kulemin. That way we could justify the deal as trying to add two pieces who immediately upgrade our roster in an attempt to put us over the top. If you don't feel you can afford to lose both those guys of your roster then we would need one of them + your 1st to justify it as good futures value. As it stands the offer just feels a bit lukewarm, regardless of the fair value.

But in the good faith of negotiating, since this is all for fun anyways, if it was Bozak, Kadri and Blacker for Luongo and a 3rd I would probably eventually cave and make that deal, assuming Kadri looks okay on the Marlies. Blacker would be much more valuable to us than Ashton, considering the latter would be stuck behind Kassian and Jensen in RW prospects for us. Also, Blacker fills a pretty significant hole in our prospect pool, since our best RHD is currently former 5th round pick Frank Corrado.

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10-22-2012, 01:22 AM
  #320
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Until the Sedins stop being 1st liners, the Canuck "window" is wide open.
Are they really elite top line players though?

They already play protected minutes and have seen their production go down 3 years straight.

Most people would take around 15 other "top lines" over the Canucks top line of the Sedins and Burrows for a one year window in 13 IMO.

Age catches up to everyone, sadly one wonders if Hamius had not been injured if the Canucks would have won that Cup against Boston.

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10-22-2012, 01:24 AM
  #321
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I think that's definitely in the ballpark of fair and reasonable, but to me it's neither enough of an immediate roster upgrade, nor a good enough futures package to warrant moving Luongo. If the 1st is deemed untouchable than I would have to see Bozak and Kulemin coming back, with Raymond heading your way to offset losing Kulemin. That way we could justify the deal as trying to add two pieces who immediately upgrade our roster in an attempt to put us over the top.

But in the good faith of negotiating, since this is all for fun anyways, if it was Bozak, Kadri and Blacker for Luongo and a 3rd I would probably eventually cave and make that deal, assuming Kadri looks okay on the Marlies. Blacker would be much more valuable to us than Ashton, considering the latter would be stuck behind Kassian and Jensen in RW prospects for us. Blacker fills a pretty significant hole in our prospect pool, as our best RHD is currently former 5th round pick Frank Corrado.
Blacker may not get the same attention as Rielly/Finn/Percy but his a real good prospect. His not someone who you can look at the stats to judge him, good two way defender. I would compare him Finn in terms of style.

Bozak+Kadri+Blacker for Luongo+3rd I think it's a good return. Maybe not great or hefty return but certainly not sub par either considering the contract/age/potential of the 3 assets either.

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10-22-2012, 01:30 AM
  #322
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Are they really elite top line players though?

They already play protected minutes and have seen their production go down 3 years straight.

Most people would take around 15 other "top lines" over the Canucks top line of the Sedins and Burrows for a one year window in 13 IMO.

Age catches up to everyone, sadly one wonders if Hamius had not been injured if the Canucks would have won that Cup against Boston.
This is going to border on off-topic here, but they are definitely still elite top line players. Henrik led the conference in scoring last year, and Daniel was still top 10 despite missing 10 games after being on the receiving end of the dirtiest play of the year.

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10-22-2012, 01:32 AM
  #323
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Exactly, let's hope the lockout is ended with the immediate announcement of the trade and we can all go on talking about how Rielly is the next Bobby Orr.

I actually like Rielly a lot but if he was drafted by Dallas would he get this much traction?
Why is Rielly even being brought up? this is why I love this site, people cry about the constant Leafs threads,trolls,all the focus on Toronto and how we hype players up supposedly then the same people bring up a prospect who's irrelevant to the discussion while saying they like him but then making a sarcastic comparison to Bobby Orr. Leafs fans are only half the problem in these discussions.

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10-22-2012, 01:34 AM
  #324
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Bozak+Kadri+Blacker for Luongo+3rd I think it's a good return. Maybe not great or hefty return but certainly not sub par either considering the contract/age/potential of the 3 assets either.
I agree, it's a good, but not great return. Like I said though, it just seems like it's halfway between the "immediate upgrade package" and the "quality futures package" that we would desire.

On a different note, how's Kadri looked on the Marlies so far this year?

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10-22-2012, 01:38 AM
  #325
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I'm not really sold on Blacker though. 2 prospects with a decent upside is what I'd hold our for. I can't imagine Finn is off the table given Toronto's depth at left D.

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