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Old
10-21-2012, 09:08 PM
  #26
Pepin le bref
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Habs are kinda stuck with Kaberle...for now.

Kaberle is cerebral type of hockey player and a smart offensive player. If he comes back in shape, motivated and somewhat near his level of efficiency he had in Toronto, he could become an asset over the course of the season. Things change fast during the season, you just never know. Pro sports is a ''what have you done for me lately'' type of buisness. 30 good games to open the season and he could gather interest.

Right now, no need to give up quality assets up just to get rid of him, especially since there is no NHL hockey anyway.

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:14 PM
  #27
TheUnseenHand
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Didn't want Kaberle when he was on Toronto and don't want him now. I think the proposal is close to fair value in a vacuum, but for the Devils there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Devils need to trade a d man for a forward not another d man.

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:24 PM
  #28
Dr Danglefest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Volchenkov for Kaberle + ?

I'm curious to explore what the + would have to be for a Kaberle-Volchenkov swap to go through.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the Devils being particularly strong in PP QB's and puck movement from the back-end. I think Kaberle is a better "pure" playmaker than Zidlicky on the PP and could potentially feed deadly Kovalchuk one-timers. Also, the Devils already have a decent plethora of defensemen that can play the PK and fill somewhat of a shutdown role.

Both D's are slightly (not immensely) overpaid for what they bring, but I think they could fill one of each involved team's weaknesses. Having said that, I know Volchenkov has more value (and definitely more swag than HF overly misloved Kaberle), so I'm wondering which additional asset(s) might get this deal done from the eyes of knowledgeable Devils fans.
Is that Kovalchuk's nickname now? "Deadly Kovalchuk"


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Old
10-21-2012, 09:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Beetlebum View Post
Give us Plekanec and Subban i'll give you Volch and Merill
Yeah.. No. Try another time.


Kaberle is really under appriciated here.

He's still a 40 point dman.

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Old
10-21-2012, 09:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Yeah.. No. Try another time.


Kaberle is really under appriciated here.

He's still a 40 point dman.
He was a 40 point dman until he does it again. He had a good 1/2 season with Canadiens, but see if that holds up, especially when Markov comes back taking the minutes that he had.

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Old
10-21-2012, 10:09 PM
  #31
Zippy316
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
I was watching hockey when you were just a wet dream.
Funny how some people don't like stats when the stats are not in their favor.
Stats don't tell the whole story. Secondary assists on PP sometimes are meaningless, and smart outlet passes aren't credited on the score sheet. Or that one smart pinch-in isn't credited either.

To truly assess an individual player, you'd need to watch him every night. That's why outsiders undervalue and fans of the teams overvalue players, sometimes it's the other way around (like Volchenkov at times). Volchenkov has regressed, and people still think he's the Ottawa-Volchenkov, or think he's a lot better than he truly is.

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Old
10-21-2012, 10:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Stats don't tell the whole story. Secondary assists on PP sometimes are meaningless, and smart outlet passes aren't credited on the score sheet. Or that one smart pinch-in isn't credited either.

To truly assess an individual player, you'd need to watch him every night. That's why outsiders undervalue and fans of the teams overvalue players, sometimes it's the other way around (like Volchenkov at times). Volchenkov has regressed, and people still think he's the Ottawa-Volchenkov, or think he's a lot better than he truly is.


I agree 100% .
Stats can be deceiving especially if taken into consideration after 1 good season.
Anyone that has watched Kabs throughout his career knows that he's an offensive D-man and in his case his stats are a true Aknowledgement of what type of player he is.
You always will get some haters that really know diddly squat about the game .These guys either want to troll any team / player or just refuse to agree that some player is better than their player.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:15 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Volchenkov for Kaberle + ?

I'm curious to explore what the + would have to be for a Kaberle-Volchenkov swap to go through.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see the Devils being particularly strong in PP QB's and puck movement from the back-end. I think Kaberle is a better "pure" playmaker than Zidlicky on the PP and could potentially feed deadly Kovalchuk one-timers. Also, the Devils already have a decent plethora of defensemen that can play the PK and fill somewhat of a shutdown role.

Both D's are slightly (not immensely) overpaid for what they bring, but I think they could fill one of each involved team's weaknesses. Having said that, I know Volchenkov has more value (and definitely more swag than HF overly misloved Kaberle), so I'm wondering which additional asset(s) might get this deal done from the eyes of knowledgeable Devils fans.
You're not necessarily wrong but we're not weak enough to give up Volch for, in mine and many others' opinion, a worse version of Zidlicky. Like many Devils fans have said already, if we're going to give up Volch then a top 6 forward, preferably a RW, will be coming back.

Our strength is defensive depth but yes please, let's get more Dman

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:38 AM
  #34
Habitant le colon
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Kaberle, Eller a 4th 2013 vs Volchenkov, (Mike hoeffel) and a 3rd 2013

Markov Volchenkov
Subban Gorges
Emelin Bouillon
Diaz Weber

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Old
10-22-2012, 03:16 AM
  #35
Clipitar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Stats don't tell the whole story. Secondary assists on PP sometimes are meaningless, and smart outlet passes aren't credited on the score sheet. Or that one smart pinch-in isn't credited either.

To truly assess an individual player, you'd need to watch him every night. That's why outsiders undervalue and fans of the teams overvalue players, sometimes it's the other way around (like Volchenkov at times). Volchenkov has regressed, and people still think he's the Ottawa-Volchenkov, or think he's a lot better than he truly is.
This is something I'm well aware of making my proposal, hence why I don't see his value miles ahead of Kaberle's. He'd be overpaid on the Habs and not the ideal candidate, but he brings something scarcely present on a Habs D-squad that is much deeper in PMD's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
Kaberle, Eller a 4th 2013 vs Volchenkov, (Mike hoeffel) and a 3rd 2013

Markov Volchenkov
Subban Gorges
Emelin Bouillon
Diaz Weber
I'd never even remotely consider a trade involving Eller in which the core piece coming back is Volchenkov.

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Old
10-22-2012, 03:25 AM
  #36
Clipitar
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Originally Posted by Cheddabombs View Post
You're not necessarily wrong but we're not weak enough to give up Volch for, in mine and many others' opinion, a worse version of Zidlicky. Like many Devils fans have said already, if we're going to give up Volch then a top 6 forward, preferably a RW, will be coming back.

Our strength is defensive depth but yes please, let's get more Dman
Not that it really makes any sense from either side – but who cares anyway, there's a lockout and we're all bored –, how about reuniting the Gionta brothers in NJ? The deal would have to be bigger and we'd have to send you a PMD in one way or another though.

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:11 AM
  #37
Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Habs are kinda stuck with Kaberle...for now.

Kaberle is cerebral type of hockey player and a smart offensive player. If he comes back in shape, motivated and somewhat near his level of efficiency he had in Toronto, he could become an asset over the course of the season. Things change fast during the season, you just never know. Pro sports is a ''what have you done for me lately'' type of buisness. 30 good games to open the season and he could gather interest.

Right now, no need to give up quality assets up just to get rid of him, especially since there is no NHL hockey anyway.
I mean, of course we'd be happy to trade him for Volchenkov, but looking past such dream scenarios, Kaberle isn't as bad as people are making him out to be. Or at least, given our uncertainty with Markov, and given no real cap pressures, he's not a must-trade player or anything. Of course, cap pressures may arise with a new CBA... but they'd have to come in pretty heavy for us to get past a Gomez departure and still need to do something with Kaberle too.

Kaberle isn't an awful turnover machine or the guy making awful-looking plays with consistency or anything like that. It's more a case of just kind of soft-touching most of his puck battles or coverage situations. He's crafty and makes the good passes most of the time, but I think we just need him to battle a little harder and hustle a bit more to make up for it. He'll never actually be physical or anything, that's not really the point, he just needs to wield his craftiness more effectively. Maybe if he does get in better shape it will make the critical difference.

The other thing is that he was kind of in a wasteland on the Habs' D last year... behind the outstanding play of the Gorges-Subban pairing, there really wasn't much that anybody else was doing to help out their partner. Even when Hal Gill was still around, he had lost a bit and wasn't a greater sheltering option anymore for the young players. Kaberle had nobody to play with to complement his game or help him out much. I'm not really sure that changes next season with the Habs either, hard to say, but just as another point, it's possible that a better pairing situation could help make him look better. Pairing him with Volchenkov, say...

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:29 AM
  #38
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nope

don't need DMen. only wingers.

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:32 AM
  #39
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Both are terrible imo.

Kaberle and Volchenkov played much better when they played in Ontario.

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:32 AM
  #40
JerseyGuy276
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Not that it really makes any sense from either side – but who cares anyway, there's a lockout and we're all bored –, how about reuniting the Gionta brothers in NJ? The deal would have to be bigger and we'd have to send you a PMD in one way or another though.
On that contract? Hell no.

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:41 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
As much as I dont like Bourque. We need to keep him.

We have a lot of defenseman and not a lot of top 6 wingers.

Gorges Subban
Markov Emelin
Kaberle Bouillon
Diaz Weber
Thanks for the laugh!!!! Bourque and top 6 wingers in the same sentence!!!!

A few years ago, I would have say yes but the Bourque that played in Montreal last year did not deserve to wear the Habs jersey!!

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:52 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
Kaberle, Eller a 4th 2013 vs Volchenkov, (Mike hoeffel) and a 3rd 2013

Markov Volchenkov
Subban Gorges
Emelin Bouillon
Diaz Weber
Love Eller. Accepted in a second.

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Old
10-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
However, this thread so far confirms HF's misconception of Kaberle's game, who still is a very serviceable PMD, at least in my opinion. He's soft and very average defensively, but his offensive game is about as underrated as McDonagh's defensive game and Ekman-Larsson's two-way play are overrated around here.
A defenceman who cannot defend capably doesn't really have a place on the Devils. Kaberle might still be decent offensively, but if he's a defensive liability and creating as many goals for the other side, it's not really helpful. Zidlicky brings good offensive skills while not being bad defensively, and his contract is better.

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Old
10-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #44
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On that contract? Hell no.
His contract is of no detriment to the Devils anymore. There'd be room for him.
I'd rather that room be used for someone younger, though.

Ideally, it'd be cool to see the Gionta brothers play together.
Realistically, I don't see the Habs giving up their captain and the Devils taking the cap hit to get older.

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10-22-2012, 10:25 AM
  #45
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His contract is of no detriment to the Devils anymore. There'd be room for him.
I'd rather that room be used for someone younger, though.

Ideally, it'd be cool to see the Gionta brothers play together.
Realistically, I don't see the Habs giving up their captain and the Devils taking the cap hit to get older.
Contract meaning cap hit like you said in this post

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Old
10-22-2012, 11:00 AM
  #46
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unless it's to pry fatso away from there so we can actually win games against them, im not all that interested in trading with the devils.

oh wait, kaberle is going? sign me up!

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Old
10-22-2012, 11:27 AM
  #47
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Thanks for the laugh!!!! Bourque and top 6 wingers in the same sentence!!!!

A few years ago, I would have say yes but the Bourque that played in Montreal last year did not deserve to wear the Habs jersey!!
"What have you done for me lately?"

You do realise that 1) the whole under-performed at the end of the season and that 2) they were playing with Ryan White instead of Brian Gionta.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:10 PM
  #48
Clipitar
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A defenceman who cannot defend capably doesn't really have a place on the Devils. Kaberle might still be decent offensively, but if he's a defensive liability and creating as many goals for the other side, it's not really helpful. Zidlicky brings good offensive skills while not being bad defensively, and his contract is better.
Read BG's description above, he describes it well. Kaberle's not a defensive liability, at least not in the way I understand a "liability", such as a MAB for instance.

He doesn't turn over the puck especially more than any one else and he can make good, crisp breakout passes, even in pressure situations. He's just soft and doesn't engage physically in the corners, which is annoying but doesn't mean he has no awareness of his defensive duties.

Sure, Zidlicky has been decent since traded to NJ. But I really thought he had been on a steady decline for a good couple of years in Minnesota. In my opinion, he doesn't bring much more to the table than Kaberle. Maybe he's slightly better defensively, but it's marginal and I still think Kaberle's better offensively and a better playmaker.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:25 PM
  #49
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Sure, Zidlicky has been decent since traded to NJ. But I really thought he had been on a steady decline for a good couple of years in Minnesota.
This season with Minnesota was really the only "bad" year he's had since he left Nashville. 42 points in 76 games, 43 points in 78 games, and 24 points in 46 games were his first three seasons in Minnesota. His issues with Mike Yeo are well documented and certainly contributed to his lackluster year.

His acquisition, along with Andy Greene coming back from injury, literally transformed our defense overnight.

Not to mention he's a well liked guy in our locker room. Anyone that Patrik Elias personally vouches for is going to instantly be respected by everyone in the organization. With his age he's certainly not a long term solution, but neither is Kaberle. We have young guys like Merill and Larsson that management is very high on and are progressing very nicely.


Last edited by AfroThunder396: 10-22-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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Old
10-22-2012, 12:39 PM
  #50
Clipitar
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This season with Minnesota was really the only "bad" year he's had since he left Nashville. 42 points in 76 games, 43 points in 78 games, and 24 points in 46 games were his first three seasons in Minnesota. His issues with Mike Yeo are well documented and certainly contributed to his lackluster year.

His acquisition, along with Andy Greene coming back from injury, literally transformed our defense overnight.

Not to mention he's a well liked guy in our locker room. Anyone that Patrik Elias personally vouches for is going to instantly be respected by everyone in the organization. With his age he's certainly not a long term solution, but neither is Kaberle. We have young guys like Merill and Larsson that management is very high on and are progressing very nicely.
All I'm saying is that he hasn't been the same defenseman since leaving Nashville, and it's nothing overly surprising considering his age. Kaberle also has decent stats showing for himself in the past few years, we can still agree he's been on the decline as well. The more I think of it, the more both look alike. I know you guys have been satisfied with his play so far in NJ, but I can tell you as a fan from another team I wouldn't be interested in acquiring giving away about any positive asset (which is what most people say about Kaberle anyway).

As a side note, both Plekanec and Kaberle are from the same hometown and currently play for it in the Czech league. I don't think anybody personally dislikes Kaberle in the organization.

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