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2nd most impactful Sens player (modern era)

View Poll Results: 2nd most impactful???
Spezza 53 54.64%
Fisher 0 0%
Phillips 4 4.12%
Neal 3 3.09%
Hossa 2 2.06%
Havlat 0 0%
Lalime 1 1.03%
Redden 2 2.06%
Chara 4 4.12%
Lalime 0 0%
Karlsson 8 8.25%
Kelly 1 1.03%
Volchenkov 0 0%
Bonk 1 1.03%
Vermette 0 0%
Michalek 0 0%
Emery 0 0%
Daigle 0 0%
Yashin 13 13.40%
Heatley 5 5.15%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-21-2012, 07:08 PM
  #26
Germz
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I think Redden deserves more consideration.

The team became a contender when he became its #1 defenseman, and the team fell apart when his play went off a cliff. His 11-season tenure with the club coincides exactly with our 11 consecutive playoff appearances.

He led the team in average ice-time 6 out of 7 consecutive seasons (Chara in 2005-06), and in defensive scoring for 7 out of 8 consecutive seasons (Corvo in 2006-07, although Redden had only 1 less point in 12 fewer games). And he played some of his best hockey with mediocre partners like York and Rachunek. He also led the team in ice-time and defensive scoring during both of our best playoff runs, despite the noticeable decline in his overall game in 2007.

The Martin-coached Senators were defense-first clubs and Jacques made it very clear that Wade was his #1 guy, even as Chara began to garner Norris consideration. Redden at his best was Martin’s kind of player: a calm, dispassionate, unflashy, positionally sound defender who was willing to take the hit and carry on unaffected.

He was named alternate captain when he was 22 years old, and kept the 'A' on his jersey for 8 seasons.

If you are talking short-term impact, I think Chara, Karlsson or even Duchesne are the strongest candidates. EDIT: Heatley too.

But for long-term, I think Redden trumps Hossa, Yashin and even Spezza.

I guess it depends on how you define "impactful', which to be honest I did not even know was a word.


Last edited by Germz: 10-21-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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Old
10-21-2012, 08:21 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
Tugger aint an option? He's not #2 but he's up there in importance.
Will add him in the next poll

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Old
10-21-2012, 08:23 PM
  #28
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I hate to say it, but i think its heatley.

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Old
10-22-2012, 07:50 AM
  #29
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Spezza = 606-226-390-616, Playoffs = 53-17-34-51
Seasons (Points) = 92, 90, 87, 84, 73, 57, 57, 55, 21
Top-10 Points x2 = 4th ('12). T-6th ('08)
Top-10 PPG x4 = 4th ('06), 5th ('07), 6th ('08), 5th ('12)
Top-10 Goals x0 =

Yashin = 504-218-273-491, Playoffs = 26-6-9-15
Seasons (Points) = 94, 88, 79, 75, 72, 44, 39
Top-10 Points x1 = 6th ('99)
Top-10 PPG x1 = 9th ('99)
Top-10 Goals x2 = 10th ('98), 2nd ('99)

Hossa = 467-188-202-390, Playoffs = 51-13-21-34
Seasons (Points) = 82, 80, 75, 66, 56, 30
Top-10 Points x1 = 5th ('04)
Top-10 PPG x1 = 10th ('04)
Top-10 Goals x2 = 4th ('03), 6th ('04)

Heatley = 317-180-182-362, Playoffs = 34-10-25-35
Seasons (Points) = 105, 103, 82, 72
Top-10 Points x2 = 4th ('06). 4th ('07)
Top-10 PPG x3 = 8th ('06), 8th ('07), 10th ('08)
Top-10 Goals x4 = 5th ('06), 2nd ('07), 8th ('08), 9th ('09)

Redden = 838-101-309-410, Playoffs = 94-12-33-45
Seasons (Points) = 50, 47, 45, 43, 38, 36, 36, 34, 30, 29, 22
Seasons (TOI) = 1st x6, 2nd x2, 3rd, 4th
- posted 4 of the top-8 highest scoring seasons for a D-man in club history (3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th)

Chara = 299-51-95-146, Playoffs = 45-3-11-14
Seasons (Points) = 43, 41, 39, 23
Seasons (TOI) = 1st x1, 2nd x3
- posted 2 of the top-10 highest scoring seasons for a D-man in club history (9th, 10th)

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:32 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Spezza = 606-226-390-616, Playoffs = 53-17-34-51
Seasons (Points) = 92, 90, 87, 84, 73, 57, 57, 55, 21
Top-10 Points x2 = 4th ('12). T-6th ('08)
Top-10 PPG x4 = 4th ('06), 5th ('07), 6th ('08), 5th ('12)
Top-10 Goals x0 =

Yashin = 504-218-273-491, Playoffs = 26-6-9-15
Seasons (Points) = 94, 88, 79, 75, 72, 44, 39
Top-10 Points x1 = 6th ('99)
Top-10 PPG x1 = 9th ('99)
Top-10 Goals x2 = 10th ('98), 2nd ('99)

Hossa = 467-188-202-390, Playoffs = 51-13-21-34
Seasons (Points) = 82, 80, 75, 66, 56, 30
Top-10 Points x1 = 5th ('04)
Top-10 PPG x1 = 10th ('04)
Top-10 Goals x2 = 4th ('03), 6th ('04)

Heatley = 317-180-182-362, Playoffs = 34-10-25-35
Seasons (Points) = 105, 103, 82, 72
Top-10 Points x2 = 4th ('06). 4th ('07)
Top-10 PPG x3 = 8th ('06), 8th ('07), 10th ('08)
Top-10 Goals x4 = 5th ('06), 2nd ('07), 8th ('08), 9th ('09)

Redden = 838-101-309-410, Playoffs = 94-12-33-45
Seasons (Points) = 50, 47, 45, 43, 38, 36, 36, 34, 30, 29, 22
Seasons (TOI) = 1st x6, 2nd x2, 3rd, 4th
- posted 4 of the top-8 highest scoring seasons for a D-man in club history (3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th)

Chara = 299-51-95-146, Playoffs = 45-3-11-14
Seasons (Points) = 43, 41, 39, 23
Seasons (TOI) = 1st x1, 2nd x3
- posted 2 of the top-10 highest scoring seasons for a D-man in club history (9th, 10th)
Are you trying to argue for anyone in particular, or just throwing numbers at the wall?

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:45 AM
  #31
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I thought the point the OP made was, not best. The biggest impact.

Yashin changed everything for the Sens. Both good and bad.

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10-22-2012, 09:11 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Are you trying to argue for anyone in particular, or just throwing numbers at the wall?
Numbers at the wall.

Though, I personally lean towards Spezza because of longevity combined with a peak impact near all of the others. In addition to odd things, like having the highest GPG average in the playoffs despite being our purest playmaking center (higher than Heatley, Hossa and Yashin)


Last edited by trentmccleary: 10-22-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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Old
10-22-2012, 09:15 AM
  #33
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I thought the point the OP made was, not best. The biggest impact.

Yashin changed everything for the Sens. Both good and bad.
If Gerber hadn't of made the highest scoring team in the league suck so much by giving up the weakest goals at the worst times... we never would have had a pick interesting enough to deal for the 15th overall that resulted in Norris Trophy winner Erik Karlsson.

Nah, I prefer just judging the on the positive accomplishments that they achieved for our team.

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Old
10-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
If Gerber hadn't of made the highest scoring team in the league suck so much by giving up the weakest goals at the worst times... we never would have had a pick interesting enough to deal for the 15th overall that resulted in Norris Trophy winner Erik Karlsson.

Nah, I prefer just judging the on the positive accomplishments that they achieved for our team.
Hasek for getting injured in the olympics which resulted in him bailing on us for the Playoffs souring management on him and leading to us sign Gerber who made the highest scoring team in the league suck so much by giving up the weakest goals at the worst times which yeilded us the ability to trade up to the 15th pick and draft a Norris winning defenceman.

Clearly Hasek puts in a strong case on both ends of the spectrum; Negative -> his fault we signed Gerber. Positive -> indirectly his fault we drafted Karlsson.

And that's not even taking into account the impact his actual play had, and his not playing had on the season/playoffs when he was with the team.

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Old
10-22-2012, 12:52 PM
  #35
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I'd go:

Alfie
Spezza
Karlsson
Yashin
Hossa
Heatley
Redden
Duchene
MacIver
Hasek
Chara
Daigle (although his impact was more on general scouting practices across the league)
Phillips
Neil
Fisher

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:25 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Germz View Post
I think Redden deserves more consideration.

The team became a contender when he became its #1 defenseman, and the team fell apart when his play went off a cliff. His 11-season tenure with the club coincides exactly with our 11 consecutive playoff appearances.

He led the team in average ice-time 6 out of 7 consecutive seasons (Chara in 2005-06), and in defensive scoring for 7 out of 8 consecutive seasons (Corvo in 2006-07, although Redden had only 1 less point in 12 fewer games). And he played some of his best hockey with mediocre partners like York and Rachunek. He also led the team in ice-time and defensive scoring during both of our best playoff runs, despite the noticeable decline in his overall game in 2007.

The Martin-coached Senators were defense-first clubs and Jacques made it very clear that Wade was his #1 guy, even as Chara began to garner Norris consideration. Redden at his best was Martinís kind of player: a calm, dispassionate, unflashy, positionally sound defender who was willing to take the hit and carry on unaffected.

He was named alternate captain when he was 22 years old, and kept the 'A' on his jersey for 8 seasons.

If you are talking short-term impact, I think Chara, Karlsson or even Duchesne are the strongest candidates. EDIT: Heatley too.

But for long-term, I think Redden trumps Hossa, Yashin and even Spezza.

I guess it depends on how you define "impactful', which to be honest I did not even know was a word.
Good God IMO Redden doesnt even make it in the top 3 most impactful defenceman.

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
Good God IMO Redden doesnt even make it in the top 3 most impactful defenceman.
I always find Redden haters quite amusing.

The Martin 1-1-3 system was built entirely around Redden's breakout pass. The guy was our number one defenseman during the glory years with the most ice time (top 5 in the league), and a part of the only Sens PP unit that was tops in the league in %.

What more did the guy have to do?

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Old
10-22-2012, 01:59 PM
  #38
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Yashin - for better or for worse.
Probably this!

Voted for Spezza though.

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Old
10-22-2012, 02:05 PM
  #39
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Taken literally, our most 'impactful' players were probably Volchenkov, Neil and Troy Mallette.

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10-22-2012, 02:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
Good God IMO Redden doesnt even make it in the top 3 most impactful defenceman.
I'm assuming your top-3 is Phillips, Karlsson, and Chara.

Phillips - Redden had the better peak with our club, and was generally considered a better defenceman.
Chara - Hit his prime just as we let him go, so Redden has an edge for peaking with our club and playing more seasons here.
Karlsson - Has the hardware advantage, but his impact has been a single great season during a rebuilding year. Redden's got a huge edge for longevity and for being part of championship-calibre squads. Time will probably change this, but for now it's Redden.

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10-22-2012, 04:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
I always find Redden haters quite amusing.

The Martin 1-1-3 system was built entirely around Redden's breakout pass. The guy was our number one defenseman during the glory years with the most ice time (top 5 in the league), and a part of the only Sens PP unit that was tops in the league in %.

What more did the guy have to do?


Well first off, the regular season is great and all but, I wouldnt call losing to the Leafs in 4 seperate playoffs our "Glory Years"...

Of course everyone is to blame on our poor playoff record, but if Redden was so impactful, maybe Id remember something impactful that he did.

He was a good defenceman, I just dont think he should be brought up in this thread.

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10-22-2012, 04:30 PM
  #42
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I'm assuming your top-3 is Phillips, Karlsson, and Chara.

Phillips - Redden had the better peak with our club, and was generally considered a better defenceman.
Chara - Hit his prime just as we let him go, so Redden has an edge for peaking with our club and playing more seasons here.
Karlsson - Has the hardware advantage, but his impact has been a single great season during a rebuilding year. Redden's got a huge edge for longevity and for being part of championship-calibre squads. Time will probably change this, but for now it's Redden.
Phillips-might not be considered a better defenceman, but I think his leadership and personality had more impact then Redden collecting 2nd assists on the PP.

Chara- physical presence was a huge impact, I guess its a wash between Redden and Chara...personal choice.

Karlsson- this last season was the definition of impact.

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10-22-2012, 05:54 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
Phillips-might not be considered a better defenceman, but I think his leadership and personality had more impact then Redden collecting 2nd assists on the PP.

Chara- physical presence was a huge impact, I guess its a wash between Redden and Chara...personal choice.

Karlsson- this last season was the definition of impact.
So your argument for Phillips is based off 'leadership and personality'? Phillips has 7 seasons as an A, including this lockout-year. Redden had 9, not including the 04-05 lockout season. Asserting 'Phillips was a better leader' is unfounded conjecture.

Chara and Redden is a lot more arguable. Both were assistants during their tenure, both were great players. Chara's advantage in defence and physicality equalled Redden's advantage offensively and on the breakout. So the only real advantage either had is in their longevity - Redden was more impactful because he was a productive player for this franchise over a longer period of time.

Karlsson's season was definitely impactful. I have never argued it wasn't. I have argued that one dominant season doesn't necessarily trump a half decade of very good seasons (top-15 for pts among D, 0.5 PPG+ seasons).

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10-22-2012, 05:56 PM
  #44
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So your argument for Phillips is based off 'leadership and personality'? Phillips has 7 seasons as an A, including this lockout-year. Redden had 9, not including the 04-05 lockout season. Asserting 'Phillips was a better leader' is unfounded conjecture.
Also, strictly from a "giving back to the community" perspective, I'd argue that Redden's involvement with the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation (65 Roses) was a lot more than most Sens players.

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10-22-2012, 06:07 PM
  #45
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Daigle contract and Yashin *****in' about it is one of the reasons the NHL now has ELC.

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10-22-2012, 06:07 PM
  #46
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i voted Neal but only because he plays for pittsburgh.

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10-22-2012, 06:13 PM
  #47
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i voted Neal but only because he plays for pittsburgh.
Wow I copy pasted and forgot to change it

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Old
10-22-2012, 06:21 PM
  #48
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Wow I copy pasted and forgot to change it
No, it's spelled correctly in the third most impactful thread.

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10-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #49
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No, it's spelled correctly in the third most impactful thread.
I thought I was in that one

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10-22-2012, 06:43 PM
  #50
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Spezza is our best player and he has been since 07-08. Before that he was Top three easily. Future Captain.

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