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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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Old
10-22-2012, 04:02 PM
  #276
GordonGecko
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
The owners aren't panicking or cracking.

whoever believes as such also believes that the owners are making a "fortune" in the NHL.
The owners are cracking, otherwise they wouldn't have made that offer last week. Has nothing to do with owners making a fortune and everything to do with there being a consensus that league growth is very healthy right now and a cancelled season will do a lot of long term damage to that growth. The owners will never let the season be cancelled, and they would rather no games be cancelled which is why they made the sudden offer. But if push comes to shove they are very willing to see a shorter schedule in 2012 in order to reach 50-50 HRR

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10-22-2012, 04:22 PM
  #277
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The NHLPA just referenced a Bleacher Report article to back their side up on Twitter. Good to see it's not just the NHL embarrassing themselves of late.

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10-22-2012, 04:23 PM
  #278
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If the season is lost, I will absolutely lose all of my respect for the players.

We are so ****ing close to winning the Stanley Cup, but they are willing to throw out a prime season of their careers?

Lundqvist is 30 years old. If he really wants to win so badly, he should realize that he's in no position to be throwing out a season at his age.
The Rangers represent 1/30th of the players. You're going to lose respect for them for not getting 29/30ths to submit because it'd be convenient for the Rangers?

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10-22-2012, 04:24 PM
  #279
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The Rangers represent 1/30th of the players. You're going to lose respect for them for not getting 29/30ths to submit because it'd be convenient for the Rangers?
No, I will lose respect for every player, especially those on contending teams, such as the Rangers.

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10-22-2012, 04:31 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
The owners are cracking, otherwise they wouldn't have made that offer last week. Has nothing to do with owners making a fortune and everything to do with there being a consensus that league growth is very healthy right now and a cancelled season will do a lot of long term damage to that growth. The owners will never let the season be cancelled, and they would rather no games be cancelled which is why they made the sudden offer. But if push comes to shove they are very willing to see a shorter schedule in 2012 in order to reach 50-50 HRR
The owners are cracking?? Ha. Based on what, exactly? Just the offer?

The offer that still contains massive across the board cuts for the players??

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10-22-2012, 04:32 PM
  #281
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The NHLPA just referenced a Bleacher Report article to back their side up on Twitter. Good to see it's not just the NHL embarrassing themselves of late.
ROFL. That's awesome.

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10-22-2012, 04:44 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The owners are cracking?? Based on what, exactly? Just the offer?
Correct. If the owners were really prepared to wait out the players well into permanently cancelled games they wouldn't have jumped the gun to provide a better offer while the players hadn't even bothered to respond to their first offer

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10-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #283
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Correct. If the owners were really prepared to wait out the players well into permanently cancelled games they wouldn't have jumped the gun to provide a better offer while the players hadn't even bothered to respond to their first offer
I pray to God that Donald Fehr doesnt possess such a hard-line stance on the matter, or else I fear we really dont see hockey.

Too many rich owners and not enough rich players - thats why the players will crack first.

The most frustrating part is theres a deal to be made thats fair to both sides and wouldnt be considered "cracking." Too much pride in that room right now, and not enough negotiating.

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10-22-2012, 04:48 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Correct. If the owners were really prepared to wait out the players well into permanently cancelled games they wouldn't have jumped the gun to provide a better offer while the players hadn't even bothered to respond to their first offer
There's a difference between bending and cracking. Any leverage the PA has dies with the cancellation of the Winter Classic. Then we hit nuclear winter territory.

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10-22-2012, 04:57 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The owners are cracking?? Ha. Based on what, exactly? Just the offer?

The offer that still contains massive across the board cuts for the players??
I think both sides are going to be cracking very soon because neither has any real incentive to miss an entire season and both have a lot of reasons to make sure some NHL hockey gets played this year.

The owners know that, as a league, the NHL is doing very well and that a missed season will damage a lot of the growth that's occurred recently. They have to worry about fans losing interest, about advertisers calling their relationships with the league quits, and some of them have to at least be aware that their teams are contenders now and that those windows open and close quickly.

The players could end up losing more money from missed paychecks than they would from the rollback they're taking a stand against. Most of them aren't playing in other leagues, and nearly all of those who are doing so are taking a pay cut. They know that their windows to make millions and possibly win a cup are short and I really doubt that the majority of them care so much about the future of the PA that they're willing to screw themselves out of millions of dollars in order to set the precedent for future bargaining agreements that will effectively have no impact on most of them.

I don't think either side is as committed to absolutely victory as they were to start. The time when both camps start to feel the squeeze and splinter is coming.

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10-22-2012, 04:59 PM
  #286
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No, I will lose respect for every player, especially those on contending teams, such as the Rangers.
How dare those players make a stance on their living that inconviniences you?

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10-22-2012, 05:01 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
There's a difference between bending and cracking. Any leverage the PA has dies with the cancellation of the Winter Classic.
Once that goes, Fehr will be in no hurry to start next season. This time out, the owners will not have sold any season tickets. And if that season goes as well, the last two years of teh NBC tv deal will be completely free for NBC and the owners will not collect anything. That is a scenario that benefits no one.

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10-22-2012, 05:04 PM
  #288
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How dare those players make a stance on their living that inconviniences you?
Its funny, isnt it? Its the same kind of mentality that takes over this board when players dont sign free agency contracts quickly enough.

I expect selfishness from the owners and players in their business negotiations. But selfishness from the fans is both laughable and sad.

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10-22-2012, 05:20 PM
  #289
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Another cancelled season and this league will be in serious trouble. They already lost many fans with the strike during 1994 and it's also been shown only a few teams are making money (which means hockey obviously isn't anywhere near as popular as the other sports around the world).

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10-22-2012, 06:09 PM
  #290
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So the owners aren't pressuring Bettman to make a deal? I guess Gary had a change of heart after twenty years and negotiated against himself because he really does care.

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10-22-2012, 06:31 PM
  #291
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http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...mir-jagr-says/

well one player gets it.

Quote:
“I believe the owners want to play as many games as possible. It doesn’t mean much that we’ve lost a month. You get eight to nine games in during that month, and that doesn’t ruin the entire season. You can always make adjustments. You can have the playoffs games on every second day. It (the playoffs) is all over the place now because of television.

His ownership status must have influenced his answer to the site’s question about what he thinks of Alexander Ovechkin’s round condemnation of the league. Ovechkin said the owners were trying to “cheat” the players out of paying their existing contracts.

“Cheating. I don’t know what he meant by the word. When someone owns something and wants to make as much as possible, you can’t call that cheating. You’d have to call a half of the world cheaters. It’s simply business. True, they need us to do the business, but still, they own it. And another thing: hockey is not the main thing for most of the owners. They make their money elsewhere. Unlike us, hockey players. They set the rules, no doubt about that.”

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10-22-2012, 06:54 PM
  #292
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Makes Ovechkin's nonsense look like the rubbish of a kid that grew up in the ashes of the Iron Curtain that it is.

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10-22-2012, 07:04 PM
  #293
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Ovechkin is like a 13 year old trapped in a grown man's body.

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10-22-2012, 07:11 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Makes Ovechkin's nonsense look like the rubbish of a kid that grew up in the ashes of the Iron Curtain that it is.
It's simple; Jagr is extremely successful outside of the rink; he understands business.

Ovechkin didn't get what he wanted from Santa.

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10-22-2012, 07:20 PM
  #295
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“We want to play. We’re the ones who are doing the show in the NHL, but Bettman thinks it makes him," Krejci said. "It is unfortunate that the NHL has such a guy. It’s a shame for the entire hockey world. Treats us like animals.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/bruin...medium=twitter

I hope the owners are taking notes of what all of us(fans, players) feel about the commissioner of the NHL, he's a disgrace to the NHL.

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10-22-2012, 07:24 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/bruin...medium=twitter

I hope the owners are taking notes of what all of us(fans, players) feel about the commissioner of the NHL, he's a disgrace to the NHL.
I'm honestly confused about how much autonomy he has. As I understand it, he takes orders from the owners. They don't need to "take note" of how people feel toward him, because he is absorbing the emotions that people feel toward all of them as a collective. Am I misunderstanding this?

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10-22-2012, 07:27 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/bruin...medium=twitter

I hope the owners are taking notes of what all of us(fans, players) feel about the commissioner of the NHL, he's a disgrace to the NHL.
I hate when the players say things like that. It's an extreme analogy, but I'm going for it. When you go into CVS, do you see the floor employees or Larry Merlo? When you go into an Apple Store, are you talking to a "genius" or Tim Cook? It's like that in every business. The big guns are behind the scenes running the show and making the top dollars they're due.

Every player is acting like their a victim when they got a bigger chunk of the pie than the owners last season by a pretty wide margin.

The players are the front-line of entertainment, as EMPLOYEES of the owners and the NHL.

If the players are so adamant about about making points like this, let them run their own ****ing league.

I know this is an extreme analogy, but it was the only way I could try and make my point.

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10-22-2012, 07:31 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I'm honestly confused about how much autonomy he has. As I understand it, he takes orders from the owners. They don't need to "take note" of how people feel toward him, because he is absorbing the emotions that people feel toward all of them as a collective. Am I misunderstanding this?
Yes and no. If you look at Bettman's history, he was a key figure in helping institue the cap in the NBA before he took over as commissioner in the NHL. There were/was an article discussing how Bettman thought Stern and the owners could've got more out of the NBA union last year during their lockout. Bettman does work with the owners' interests in mind. The thing is this time around not every owner is on board with how this is playing out. And if you are an owner that speaks out, even if its against the players, you will be fined and/or lose draft picks. It is a dictatorship. I cannot show any compassion for Bettman and won't ever. The players are not exactly saints, but Bettman is the devil at this point. The day he is fired will be the real victory.

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10-22-2012, 07:41 PM
  #299
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-come on with Ovechkin. Its his second language and he is a passionate person. His vocabulary is lower level, don't confuse that with petulant or spoiled.

-Bettman has dictator powers during the lockout. The owners need a 2/3 majority to over rule his decisions. Based on owners' soundbites, the "unanimous" decision to lockout, the gag order, the first proposal all sound like Bettman choices. Based on history, the latest proposal seems like the owners are at the least voicing their displeasure with the course of the lockout.

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10-22-2012, 07:46 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I hate when the players say things like that. It's an extreme analogy, but I'm going for it. When you go into CVS, do you see the floor employees or Larry Merlo? When you go into an Apple Store, are you talking to a "genius" or Tim Cook? It's like that in every business. The big guns are behind the scenes running the show and making the top dollars they're due.

Every player is acting like their a victim when they got a bigger chunk of the pie than the owners last season by a pretty wide margin.

The players are the front-line of entertainment, as EMPLOYEES of the owners and the NHL.

If the players are so adamant about about making points like this, let them run their own ****ing league.

I know this is an extreme analogy, but it was the only way I could try and make my point.

i can understand that analogy and respect the comparison. He has more power than we all know though, he can't just be a puppet. For him to go into a meeting with 3 or 4 owners and receive 3 different proposals from the PA and immediately turn them down and say he will only work off of their last proposal shows he has the power. I really think he has more power than we think, he has to. And in my opinion i think this is the last starw the past 3 lockouts may not be solely his fault, but someone has got to take the fall, just like a coach or gm would if a team did not succeed.

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