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Old
10-22-2012, 02:43 PM
  #26
Anderson55
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
This. Is. My. Biggest. Fear.

I think we blew it with the Pouliot pick and a large part of me feels that it's part of Shero's attempt to recreate the Predators blue line from the past 2-3 years.

It was a bonehead move to pick a project defensemen ahead of more established forwards. I even said after the draft that if you were to tell me that somehow we nabbed Pouliot and Maatta with our first two picks I would have assumed we never traded Staal, moved up to pick Maatta on the first day and grabbed Pouliot in the second round. Someone got cute picking Pouliot at #8...especially with Forsberg and Grigorenko still on the board.

Ridiculous.
You're BPA is obviously not the same as the Pens. Its your opinion and ur entitled to it, but im fairly certain that the scouting staff of the pens have more info at their disposal to make a selection. Mock drafts cant be trusted

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Old
10-22-2012, 03:14 PM
  #27
Skk82
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[QUOTE=IHWR;55129871]
Quote:
It was a bonehead move to pick a project defensemen ahead of more established forwards. I even said after the draft that if you were to tell me that somehow we nabbed Pouliot and Maatta with our first two picks I would have assumed we never traded Staal, moved up to pick Maatta on the first day and grabbed Pouliot in the second round. Someone got cute picking Pouliot at #8...especially with Forsberg and Grigorenko still on the board.

Ridiculous.
At the same time though, a defensemen with a bum shoulder went #10 overall this year. The temperature of the league right now is very much that elusive puck-moving defenseman.

I do agree with you it seems like a big reach to take Pouliot over some of the guys still on the board (namely, Forsberg) but the jury's still out.

There was a lot of outrage after the Harrington pick that was little off the board and he's turned into one of the best non-professional prospects in the whole game.

That said, given the Pens strength defensively, given that so many of the draft's top forwards were available, I would have preferred to see them go a different direction. They could have had any forward in the draft except Yakupov and Galchenyuk...And they liked Pouliot more? Still is boggling.

We'll see how it turns out, I guess. If Shero blows a top 10 pick, there's going to be some heat turned up on his draft/developing record, and legitimately so.

And, btw, from Corey Pronman at Puck Perspectus:

Quote:
Derrick Pouliot, 8th overall to Pittsburgh: When I asked a scouting director if he was surprised to see Pouliot go at 8 he said firmly, “No” and continued by saying, “That’s basically where we had him. We though he was right there with the other top Canadian defensemen.” Scouts of course don’t discuss their draft boards with each other, but they do get a feel from their colleagues on what they think of certain players. From talking to NHL sources about what they had heard from their peers, it seems there were certainly some teams that had Derrick Pouliot in their top 10, but most did not.
I think your assumption "Pens could have gotten Pouliot in the second" was out of touch with how NHL teams actually had their rankings. Given how defensemen were flying in that draft, some team would have taken him in the first round, probably before the Pens picked at #22 would be my guess.


Last edited by Skk82: 10-22-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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10-22-2012, 03:45 PM
  #28
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Wouldn't even consider it.

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10-22-2012, 05:14 PM
  #29
IHWR
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I hate trying to defend my point on these boards because it's way too easy to dismiss. Yeah get it...the Pens scouts liked Pouliot and since they took him 8th overall he was probably pretty high on their final list. And for the record, he's not a bad prospect at all...there's just no way he was the 8th best player in the 2012 draft. And that's not mock drafts speaking, that's feedback I've gotten from a variety of different people...from bloggers to "insiders" to a few scouts I've talked with. Even my own personal viewings of Pouliot last season while I was checking out Morrow.

And I'm tired of people bringing up Harrington to defend the Pouliot pick. Harrington was a 2nd rounder and was further along in his development when he was picked. Ray-Ray even admitted at the draft this year that Pouliot was a "project".

So yeah...people are free to drink the koolaid and defend the pick all they want. They can also call guys like Despres "untouchable". I think it's crazy that a team like the Pens who haven't developed a draft pick other than Dustin Jeffrey since 2006 that's played more than 40 NHL games and yet people still blindly trust all their picks.

People need to start to grasp that we aren't a good drafting team (besides hoarding defensive prospects) and accept the fact that we'll need to rely on trades and free agency to fill needs.

I mean...how long have we had at least 1 giant hole in the top 6 that perennially gets filled with Pascal Dupuis or Tyler Kennedy or a one year stop gap like Sullivan or Guerin or Sykora? Jordan Staal is the last forward we drafted and developed that's spent time in the top 6 and he made his NHL debut over 6 years ago. The only reason that hasn't crippled the franchise is we were fortunate to land Crosby and Malkin along with dealing for guys like Neal and Kunitz. We've had success dealing defensemen for forwards...but since none of our prospects are worth what Whitney or Gogo were, the returns aren't going to be the home runs everyone expects.

The last thing we needed was a project defenseman with what should be a rare top 10 pick. But that's what we got. I'm a huge BPA guy, but enough's enough. All the BPA strategy we're currently using does is increase the likelihood that we'll develop some NHL blueliners but for every highend defenseman prospect we add we are negatively impacting the ones we already have. There's only so much room for developing and on the NHL depth chart.

We'd be dumb to not deal at least one of them now and try and get some stuff we actually need, like a top 6 forward prospect that doesn't have some major deficiencies would be nice...

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10-22-2012, 08:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I think it's crazy that a team like the Pens who haven't developed a draft pick other than Dustin Jeffrey since 2006 that's played more than 40 NHL games and yet people still blindly trust all their picks.

People need to start to grasp that we aren't a good drafting team (besides hoarding defensive prospects) and accept the fact that we'll need to rely on trades and free agency to fill needs.
I agree with a lot of what you've said about the Pens' drafting, but there are some extenuating circumstances that have been rehashed regularly here. Namely multiple high picks getting traded early in Shero's tenure, a focus on drafting defensemen/college players that typically take longer development paths, and some bad luck with injuries.

A number of Shero draftees were likely to become NHL regulars this year.

Quote:
We'd be dumb to not deal at least one of them now and try and get some stuff we actually need, like a top 6 forward prospect that doesn't have some major deficiencies would be nice...
Given how well we've been scoring and how putrid our big-league defense has been, I'd rather wait awhile and see which of our group pans out the best. Unless the winger coming back is a fantastic, established commodity.

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10-22-2012, 08:45 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
I hate trying to defend my point on these boards because it's way too easy to dismiss. Yeah get it...the Pens scouts liked Pouliot and since they took him 8th overall he was probably pretty high on their final list. And for the record, he's not a bad prospect at all...there's just no way he was the 8th best player in the 2012 draft. And that's not mock drafts speaking, that's feedback I've gotten from a variety of different people...from bloggers to "insiders" to a few scouts I've talked with. Even my own personal viewings of Pouliot last season while I was checking out Morrow.

And I'm tired of people bringing up Harrington to defend the Pouliot pick. Harrington was a 2nd rounder and was further along in his development when he was picked. Ray-Ray even admitted at the draft this year that Pouliot was a "project".

So yeah...people are free to drink the koolaid and defend the pick all they want. They can also call guys like Despres "untouchable". I think it's crazy that a team like the Pens who haven't developed a draft pick other than Dustin Jeffrey since 2006 that's played more than 40 NHL games and yet people still blindly trust all their picks.

People need to start to grasp that we aren't a good drafting team (besides hoarding defensive prospects) and accept the fact that we'll need to rely on trades and free agency to fill needs.

I mean...how long have we had at least 1 giant hole in the top 6 that perennially gets filled with Pascal Dupuis or Tyler Kennedy or a one year stop gap like Sullivan or Guerin or Sykora? Jordan Staal is the last forward we drafted and developed that's spent time in the top 6 and he made his NHL debut over 6 years ago. The only reason that hasn't crippled the franchise is we were fortunate to land Crosby and Malkin along with dealing for guys like Neal and Kunitz. We've had success dealing defensemen for forwards...but since none of our prospects are worth what Whitney or Gogo were, the returns aren't going to be the home runs everyone expects.

The last thing we needed was a project defenseman with what should be a rare top 10 pick. But that's what we got. I'm a huge BPA guy, but enough's enough. All the BPA strategy we're currently using does is increase the likelihood that we'll develop some NHL blueliners but for every highend defenseman prospect we add we are negatively impacting the ones we already have. There's only so much room for developing and on the NHL depth chart.

We'd be dumb to not deal at least one of them now and try and get some stuff we actually need, like a top 6 forward prospect that doesn't have some major deficiencies would be nice...
Completely agree with everything you're saying and I was actually fuming draft day. Pouliot's a Penguin now so I care more about him developing correctly rather than the pick. The defense heavy draft scheme is worth bringing up though.

That being said I do like DePo a lot. IMO his skill is through the roof and I think his high end could be Zubov-like. Another thing is that defense is such a taught position that I have to guess that the Pens feel like there's less downside when drafting D as opposed to hoping that a F's scoring will carry through.

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