HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Vladimir Tarasenko (NHL) Discussion Thread (IV)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-22-2012, 11:56 AM
  #201
Mr Dangles
I double dare you.
 
Mr Dangles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Sure, there are more good defensemen in NHL, but Tarasenko is very good with a puck. And he has very good body, scating and wrist shot - I think, even NHL level defense will have big problems with him.
I agree. Only issue is adjusting to rink size. Shouldn't be much of a problem because he is great in corners and very good in tight spaces already. Giving him space in an NHL rink will lead to problems for the opponent.

Mr Dangles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:41 PM
  #202
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 50
LOL Tarasenko missed an empty netter on a 2-on-1 break. SKA still won 3-2 and he scored the second goal.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 12:54 PM
  #203
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dangles View Post
I agree. Only issue is adjusting to rink size. Shouldn't be much of a problem because he is great in corners and very good in tight spaces already. Giving him space in an NHL rink will lead to problems for the opponent.
I think, having 3 scoring lines will help as well. You will never know what line should be opposed by the best defensemen. This Steen-McDonald-Tarasenko line will pretty easy be able to be the 1st one, being the 3rd on paper. It looks like Blues will have top9, not top6 the next season... And I hope, "next season" will start this year...

Btw today was his 202th game in the KHL (along with playoffs). Not bad for a 20-year old kid.


Last edited by Kshahdoo: 10-22-2012 at 03:25 PM.
Kshahdoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 05:37 PM
  #204
Vladys Gumption
Moderator
 
Vladys Gumption's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
I think, having 3 scoring lines will help as well. You will never know what line should be opposed by the best defensemen. This Steen-McDonald-Tarasenko line will pretty easy be able to be the 1st one, being the 3rd on paper. It looks like Blues will have top9, not top6 the next season... And I hope, "next season" will start this year...

Btw today was his 202th game in the KHL (along with playoffs). Not bad for a 20-year old kid.
Actually I think it would probably be Steen being the center between McDonald and Tarasenko. But I am drooling over that line. Could you imagine a future line featuring Tarasanko, Backes and Oshie (I know I'm dreaming)? What a nightmare they would be. I'm so excited to see this kid in the Note.

Vladys Gumption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:31 PM
  #205
Yosemite Sam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,387
vCash: 1050
What Tarasenko is doing in the KHL right now is pretty remarkable. Granted it's a pretty small sample size, but here are some comparisons.

In numerous threads where both Tarasenko and Kuznetsov are discussed on these boards, many people chose Kuznetsov as the better prospect. That includes the recent thread where people listed their top five prospects, for example. I won't even consider what Tarasenko did last year and how dominant he was in the playoffs with little ice time. Let's just look at this year in the K.

Tarasenko: 8GP, 7G, 6A, 13pts
Kuznetsov: 16GP, 7G, 10A, 17pts

When you just look at the stats, you can see that Tarasenko has as many goals and nearly as many points in half the games. But when you dig a little deeper and look at average ice time per game, that's when your socks get blown off. In those 8 games played, Tarasenko saw an average just over 13 minutes of ice time per game whereas Kuznetsov has benefited from just short of 20 minutes per game.

In short, Tarasenko has gotten a point for every 8 minutes he was on the ice. Kuznetsov got a point every 18+ of ice time. Small sample size but very significant difference. Tarasenko's scoring a goal every 15 minutes versus more than 45 minutes for Kuznetsov.

Some will say it's because Tarasenko is playing with Kovalchuk. It is a factor, no doubt, but it's hard to believe that alone accounts for the performance gap between Tarasenko and Kuznetsov. In fact, if you look at the stats, Tarasenko's doing better that Kovalchuk as well. Kovalchuk: 10.2 minutes/point and 29+ minutes/goal.

Anyway, I don't want to make a huge deal out of it but suffice it to say Tarasenko has started the year on absolute fire and has been the premier player in the entire KHL so far this year. And yes, that includes everyone if you compare stats. It's a great sign for the Blues for sure.

And for those who compare Kuznetsov and Tarasenko... flashier does not equal better.


Last edited by Yosemite Sam: 10-22-2012 at 07:07 PM.
Yosemite Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 06:45 PM
  #206
Peter Sidorkiewicz
Kovalchuk Army
 
Peter Sidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Some will say it's because Tarasenko is playing with Kovalchuk.
Stop fooling yourself, all will say it is because of playing with Kovalchuk.

Not that it is a bad thing, he is an ideal role model to learn from.

Peter Sidorkiewicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 07:03 PM
  #207
CarvinSigX
Registered User
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 7,989
vCash: 2616
And a simple stat from last year can show it is not just from playing with Kovy.

CarvinSigX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 07:05 PM
  #208
Yosemite Sam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,387
vCash: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchuk Army View Post
Stop fooling yourself, all will say it is because of playing with Kovalchuk.

Not that it is a bad thing, he is an ideal role model to learn from.
Indeed. And just to be clear, I`m not saying he`s better than Kovalchuk. Just trying to illustrate how impressive his start has been.


Last edited by Yosemite Sam: 10-22-2012 at 08:03 PM.
Yosemite Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 07:45 PM
  #209
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,847
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post

Some will say it's because Tarasenko is playing with Kovalchuk.
Tikhonov is a factor as well. This whole line has just found chemistry. I bet we'll see them together in NT in Euro Tour. And Blues should think about getting Tikhonov out of Phoenix. He could be cheap and pretty effective 3rd line center. Or even 2nd, if playing with Tarasenko.

Kshahdoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-22-2012, 09:08 PM
  #210
TK 421
Donut Squad
 
TK 421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Actually I think it would probably be Steen being the center between McDonald and Tarasenko. But I am drooling over that line. Could you imagine a future line featuring Tarasanko, Backes and Oshie (I know I'm dreaming)? What a nightmare they would be. I'm so excited to see this kid in the Note.
The funny thing is that most posters here have seen more of Steen at center than Ken Hitchcock has and everyone is basing the Steen at center stuff off Hitchcock quotes. Other than FO's, Steen looks like crap at center. He'd be 4th on my list to play there after McDonald, Sobotka and Oshie. Meanwhile....Andy McDonald has an actual resume at center which includes a Stanley Cup as a No.1 center no less.

Once Hitch sees more of Steen getting passed through like he isn't there and looking like he doesn't have a clue, he'll probably change his tune. I do think he'll keep that trio together as Steen-McDonald-Tarasenko though.

TK 421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 05:27 AM
  #211
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Some will say it's because Tarasenko is playing with Kovalchuk. It is a factor, no doubt, but it's hard to believe that alone accounts for the performance gap between Tarasenko and Kuznetsov.
Last season in PO Taras played without Kovy in the fourth line with even smaller ice time and showed the same performance.

It was a big issue in a media this spring whether will he go to NHL or will sign with SKA.
Frankly, I thought he would stay in KHL. Mainly, because of coach.
Whether will Taras suit to Hitchcock style of game it's a question
I remember Hitchcock said after the lost game: "That's what happens when players try to use skills". I think that skillful teams like Pittsburgh would suit him better.
Hitchcock doesn't like much to work with talented young players.

od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 05:37 AM
  #212
Robb_K
Registered User
 
Robb_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NordHolandNethrlands
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Last season in PO Taras played without Kovy in the fourth line with even smaller ice time and showed the same performance.

It was a big issue in a media this spring whether will he go to NHL or will sign with SKA.
Frankly, I thought he would stay in KHL. Mainly, because of coach.
Whether will Taras suit to Hitchcock style of game it's a question
I remember Hitchcock said after the lost game: "That's what happens when players try to use skills". I think that skillful teams like Pittsburgh would suit him better.
Hitchcock doesn't like much to work with talented young players.
You can't convince me that Hitchcock DIDN'T enjoy last season, when he was working mostly with talented young players, and came within one point of having his team have the best regular season record in The NHL (World's highest calibre professional hockey league). Are you saying that Hitchcock would rather have a team full of unskilled goons and "energy types", than skilled goal scorers?

Robb_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 05:55 AM
  #213
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Of course, guys are skillful (who said that they are "unskilled goons"?). But the question is : How much does Hitch allow them to use their skills, how much the game of his team is based on skills of their players?
As for the talented young players, why did he send Filatov to the AHL after he scored a hattrick? How often does the same happen in NHL


Last edited by od71: 10-23-2012 at 06:13 AM.
od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 07:06 AM
  #214
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,252
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Of course, guys are skillful (who said that they are "unskilled goons"?). But the question is : How much does Hitch allow them to use their skills, how much the game of his team is based on skills of their players?
As for the talented young players, why did he send Filatov to the AHL after he scored a hattrick? How often does the same happen in NHL
Filatov is an awful example. He, without Hitch "holding him back", is still struggling to secure an NHL roster spot. He was taken way too high in the draft. Hitch let Mike Modano, Brett Hull, and Sergei Zubov use their skills and he won a cup. If he actually said what you are saying he said, it is likely taken out of context. What he most likely meant is that guys get into trouble when they try to dangle around Dmen, especially in the playoffs. Even the most skilled players will turn the puck over trying to do too much. To me, that's a reasonable complaint. He would rather a guy dump the puck in and go in hard after it, than try to dance around a guy at the blue line and likely give it up.

MattyMo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 07:54 AM
  #215
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
I didn't mean exactly Filatov. I just wonder how often, the player after he scores hattrick has been sent to AHL. What about Filatov, he said that he is grateful to Hitch, he taught him how to play in defence.
About Taras Hitch said that he usualy scores from the areas where only the skilful guys go (or are allowed to go?).


Last edited by od71: 10-23-2012 at 08:13 AM.
od71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #216
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,394
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Last season in PO Taras played without Kovy in the fourth line with even smaller ice time and showed the same performance.

It was a big issue in a media this spring whether will he go to NHL or will sign with SKA.
Frankly, I thought he would stay in KHL. Mainly, because of coach.
Whether will Taras suit to Hitchcock style of game it's a question
I remember Hitchcock said after the lost game: "That's what happens when players try to use skills". I think that skillful teams like Pittsburgh would suit him better.
Hitchcock doesn't like much to work with talented young players.
Way to take a quote completely out of context.

Hitch was referring to the pointless east-west game that some skilled players play. Tarasenko plays a very direct game and that suits Hitch perfectly. The players said that they had more freedom offensively with Hitch than they had with Payne, an offensive coach.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 09:41 AM
  #217
Alklha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,442
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Of course, guys are skillful (who said that they are "unskilled goons"?). But the question is : How much does Hitch allow them to use their skills, how much the game of his team is based on skills of their players?
As for the talented young players, why did he send Filatov to the AHL after he scored a hattrick? How often does the same happen in NHL
A big part of how Hitchcock plays the game is around his system. This idea people have that players within that system aren't talented or are held back is nonsense. The Blues are one of the youngest teams in the League, and I doubt you'll find 1 player that has any issue with how Hitch handled the team last year.

David Perron is a pretty poor defensive player and was 21-21-42 last season, on pace for 30-30 over an 82 game year. Hitchcock will give you the freedom to play your game going forward if you at least attempt to be responsible on the defensive side of the game.

Alklha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 10:16 AM
  #218
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Last season in PO Taras played without Kovy in the fourth line with even smaller ice time and showed the same performance.

It was a big issue in a media this spring whether will he go to NHL or will sign with SKA.
Frankly, I thought he would stay in KHL. Mainly, because of coach.
Whether will Taras suit to Hitchcock style of game it's a question
I remember Hitchcock said after the lost game: "That's what happens when players try to use skills". I think that skillful teams like Pittsburgh would suit him better.
Hitchcock doesn't like much to work with talented young players.
Where in the world are you getting that quote?? I've never heard Hitch say anything like that. I highly suspect you are taking it out of context and/or it's a very poor translation from English to Russian and then back to English again.

As for the second line I bolded, that's a falsehood that's been challenged and debunked repeatedly. How the heck Filatov's failings somehow means that Hitch doesn't like Russians or doesn't like young players, I simply don't get. It's fans trying to find an excuse for Filatov's failure IMO. He failed in Ottawa too. Do the Sens coaches also dislike Russians/young players then too?? He failed because he's lazy, has virtually no two-way game and doesn't play a very good N.A. style of game, not because of Hitch. I'll also note that when Filatov ran back home last season to play for CSKA, they demoted him to their Jr team and then the Jr team coach benched him in the Jr playoffs saying that Filatov was just going through the motions and if he wasn't going to give his all then he (the coach) was going to go with the players that got the team that far in the first place over the more talented but lazy Filatov. Does that Russian Jr coach hate Russians/young players too?? Or maybe, just maybe, the problem is Filatov, and not any of his coaches.

As for how often players get sent to the minors after a hat trick, I'm sure it's rare. That was Filatov's rookie season as an undersized 18 ur old kid though! What did you expect? He scored 3 goals in that one game that season but by and large, he looked completely lost in the 8 games he played for Columbus that season. No offense but I think you're cherry picking arguments, not looking at the full picture and are making excuses for Filatov.

STL fan in IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 03:19 PM
  #219
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,847
vCash: 500
Filatov ain't doing great in the KHL right now as well. Sure you can point out to Niederreiter who scored just a point in 56 games, but is still considered as a top prospect. I mean Filatov got much worse treatment comparing to Niederreiter. Or say Kadri. But anyway he wasn't good enough to win a place in the NHL team's roster.

But Tarasenko is a very different player. He actually plays defense. He forchecks and backchecks, and he has a very strong mentality. And he alredy has better KHL statistics than Filatov being 1.5 years younger.

Kshahdoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
  #220
ToniJ1960
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 121
vCash: 50
David Perron was +19 last season by the way, only one player on the team was much better at +24.

ToniJ1960 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 06:36 PM
  #221
Steve Doan
Re-sign Elliott
 
Steve Doan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Eureka
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 9,793
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Where in the world are you getting that quote?? I've never heard Hitch say anything like that. I highly suspect you are taking it out of context and/or it's a very poor translation from English to Russian and then back to English again.

As for the second line I bolded, that's a falsehood that's been challenged and debunked repeatedly. How the heck Filatov's failings somehow means that Hitch doesn't like Russians or doesn't like young players, I simply don't get. It's fans trying to find an excuse for Filatov's failure IMO. He failed in Ottawa too. Do the Sens coaches also dislike Russians/young players then too?? He failed because he's lazy, has virtually no two-way game and doesn't play a very good N.A. style of game, not because of Hitch. I'll also note that when Filatov ran back home last season to play for CSKA, they demoted him to their Jr team and then the Jr team coach benched him in the Jr playoffs saying that Filatov was just going through the motions and if he wasn't going to give his all then he (the coach) was going to go with the players that got the team that far in the first place over the more talented but lazy Filatov. Does that Russian Jr coach hate Russians/young players too?? Or maybe, just maybe, the problem is Filatov, and not any of his coaches.

As for how often players get sent to the minors after a hat trick, I'm sure it's rare. That was Filatov's rookie season as an undersized 18 ur old kid though! What did you expect? He scored 3 goals in that one game that season but by and large, he looked completely lost in the 8 games he played for Columbus that season. No offense but I think you're cherry picking arguments, not looking at the full picture and are making excuses for Filatov.
He did say something like that, but it has been taken out of context. It was after a loss late in the season and im pretty sure he was referring to Oshie when he said it.

Steve Doan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 07:25 PM
  #222
CarvinSigX
Registered User
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Illinois
Country: United States
Posts: 7,989
vCash: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToniJ1960 View Post
David Perron was +19 last season by the way, only one player on the team was much better at +24.
Didn't Perron play a majority of his time with Backes and Oshie after Steen went down?

CarvinSigX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 08:25 PM
  #223
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500
It doesn't help when you have a goofball like Alexander Khavanov writing articles on the KHL's main website claiming Hitchcock is bad at dealing with young players(particularly young Russians) and that St. Louis is "not a club with a rich tradition of Russian players". You can't really blame people for believing these lies. Especially those who aren't very familiar with the Blues or Hitchcock. The best thing we can do is to politely point out to them that this is in fact false/uninformed information. I imagine Hitchcock absolutely can't wait to coach young Tarasenko and utilize all of his abilities. You can already tell he wants to get the most out of him by the fact that he plans on immediately pairing with two of our most skilled offensive players.

h22prelude93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 08:26 PM
  #224
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500

h22prelude93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2012, 09:19 PM
  #225
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,394
vCash: 50
Khavanov is the Ryan Lambert of Russian hockey writers. Hard to believe he could do something worse than play hockey lol. I know, I know, he wasn't that bad.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.