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Keith Ballard to the New York Islanders

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Old
10-22-2012, 09:09 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Unlikly imo. Regardless of what armchair gms think of KK's nhl potential, the isles sound like they like Kabanov's upside and expect him to contibute at the nhl level.
Dude...Kabanov does not have the same value as Ballard. Sorry. One player is an nhl vet with many years left and the other is a Russian with character issues and hasn't exactly lit it up in North America.

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10-22-2012, 09:24 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Would the Islanders be willing to move Kabanov for Ballard?
If that is all it takes for Kabanov then ill top your offer and give Kaberle, Gomez and Weber for Kabanov and a late pick.

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10-22-2012, 09:40 PM
  #78
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Dude...Kabanov does not have the same value as Ballard. Sorry. One player is an nhl vet with many years left and the other is a Russian with character issues and hasn't exactly lit it up in North America.
Isles top 4 is set. They are not a team looking for a $4m, 3rd pairing defenseman.

20 yr old Kabanov's playing well in the AHL, in his rookie season.

Isles have had no character issues with Kabanov in 2 yrs Not since he was late for practice in training camp.

The same fans who posted 2 yrs ago, that he was a wasted pick, would not be signed to an nhl contract, can't seem to grasp that the isles have no complaints about KK, they are very happy to let him continue to develop. He's not being shopped.


I can't wait for this kid to make it to the NHL

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10-23-2012, 12:21 AM
  #79
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Why? Ballard is overpaid, that's definite, but he's still a very good #5 defenseman on the Canucks deep blue line. I'm fine with paying him 4.2mil, we have no better use of that cap space. Hence, he won't be traded for a draft pick.

If he were and we're strictly discussing value, I bet some team would bite and try to reclaim him for a 2nd. If not, a 3rd and a 4th. Personally, I wouldn't trade him for either package though unless we desperately needed cap space.

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10-23-2012, 12:55 AM
  #80
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Oi vey, I think it's time a lot of my fellow Nucks fans on here just give in and accept that Ballard has no trade value whatsoever. He may have the potential to be a top four on most teams but he hasn't been able to do it on Vancouver. If a team intends on taking on a 4+ million contract it's only because the traded player will undoubtedly make a team significantly better. I wouldn't risk trading anything for Ballard if I saw him getting minimum ice time on a Cup contender. Especially with his horrid contract.


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10-23-2012, 01:30 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Schneiderman View Post
Oi vey, I think it's time a lot of my fellow Nucks fans on here just give in and accept that Ballard has no trade value whatsoever. He may have the potential to be a top four on most teams but he hasn't been able to do it on Vancouver. If a team intends on taking on a 4+ million contract it's only because the traded player will undoubtedly make a team significantly better. I wouldn't risk trading anything for Ballard if I saw him getting minimum ice time on a Cup contender. Especially with his horrid contract.

Exactly, his play here, as minimal as it may be, would outweigh what we get back from him. Unless a team really wants him, and there isn't really a lot of buzz from HFers on him, we should keep him and show that last year's improvement wasn't a fluke.

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10-23-2012, 01:41 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Exactly, his play here, as minimal as it may be, would outweigh what we get back from him. Unless a team really wants him, and there isn't really a lot of buzz from HFers on him, we should keep him and show that last year's improvement wasn't a fluke.
Ever from an Islander point of view, I see nothing wrong with that; even if the season started tomorrow.. ...the Islanders don't need to make a trade so bad now as they'll have the flexibility with the cap to poach players next offseason, as both Streit and Visnovsky come off the books.

Despite the occasional hiccup, I think the Isles can stay the course and pull a coup like Florida did a few offseasons ago, albeit to a smaller scale. One or two d-men to replace Streit & Visno, a little bit of attention to the top-9 (plus the Tavares Factor) and the Isles might do close to what the Senators did last year. One year after that and the pipeline starts gushing even more defensemen.

The Canucks are fine with Ballard and the Isles will show growth. Ballard would help, but the NYI prospect pool is what it is for a reason.

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10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Why? Ballard is overpaid, that's definite, but he's still a very good #5 defenseman on the Canucks deep blue line. I'm fine with paying him 4.2mil, we have no better use of that cap space. Hence, he won't be traded for a draft pick.

If he were and we're strictly discussing value, I bet some team would bite and try to reclaim him for a 2nd. If not, a 3rd and a 4th. Personally, I wouldn't trade him for either package though unless we desperately needed cap space.

The thing about players like Ballard is there are lots of them available for nothing. They can also be signed for much cheaper. Players like Rozsival, Sarich, Hannan, Fistric, Stralman, etc... were all had for free and 2 million or less.

There are just an excess of relatively solid defencemen who can step in and play bottom pairing with the occasional second pairing. Ballard's multi-year 4 year contract is just way to restrictive to give him any value.

Simple supply and demand.

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10-23-2012, 01:17 PM
  #84
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The Canucks play their third pair regularly at even strength, Ballards problem is that he hasn't made it onto special teams. If he can make it onto the 2nd PP, it'll really help his ice time.
Ballard the last two years averaged 13minutes of icetime and that hurts his value

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10-23-2012, 01:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Ballard the last two years averaged 13minutes of icetime and that hurts his value
Who should he have been able to outplay for more ice, Hamhuis or Edler?

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10-23-2012, 02:25 PM
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Who should he have been able to outplay for more ice, Hamhuis or Edler?
the trade value of some are based upon what they hope his projection is and not what his reality is

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10-23-2012, 10:31 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Dude...Kabanov does not have the same value as Ballard. Sorry. One player is an nhl vet with many years left and the other is a Russian with character issues and hasn't exactly lit it up in North America.
Can you tell me what his character issues are? He went to Russia cause his dad advised him to. Are you calling a kid who listened to his dad at 16/17 a bad character? Or is it his tattoos? Or just perhaps your parroting bad info?

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10-23-2012, 10:54 PM
  #88
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Can you tell me what his character issues are? He went to Russia cause his dad advised him to. Are you calling a kid who listened to his dad at 16/17 a bad character? Or is it his tattoos? Or just perhaps your parroting bad info?
I wouldn't even bother if I were you. Some stuff is so off-base and ridiculous it just has to be ignored.

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10-24-2012, 01:27 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
the trade value of some are based upon what they hope his projection is and not what his reality is
I watched him play every game last season, I know what his reality is.

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10-24-2012, 10:09 AM
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Man, these Canucks fans. They love their comedy.
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He hangs out on our board but hates the team and all its players, please don't paint us all with that brush.
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Yay sweeping generalizations of fan bases!

You know because we are ALL asking for that high of a price
Other posters from the Vancouver board have asked for a first rounder for Ballard in the last few months

Ballard's value is very low and the canucks wont get much for him after his last two season

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10-24-2012, 10:12 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Other posters from the Vancouver board have asked for a first rounder for Ballard in the last few months

Ballard's value is very low and the canucks wont get much for him after his last two season
I believe I mentioned something smilar to that, I believe my words were something to the effect of even though no one would offer it, because Ballard still has upside and we don't need the cap space, I'd rather keep him unless someone offers a 1st, which is overpayment.

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10-24-2012, 12:38 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I believe I mentioned something smilar to that, I believe my words were something to the effect of even though no one would offer it, because Ballard still has upside and we don't need the cap space, I'd rather keep him unless someone offers a 1st, which is overpayment.
If the cap starts to fall, you'll have no choice but to move him. And the owner have money, but they won't be fond of the idea of paying a guy 4 mil to play in the minors. Edler is due for a big raise. Even if you move Luongo, having Ballard at 4.2 as your #5-6 severely limits your options.

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10-24-2012, 01:22 PM
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If the cap starts to fall, you'll have no choice but to move him. And the owner have money, but they won't be fond of the idea of paying a guy 4 mil to play in the minors. Edler is due for a big raise. Even if you move Luongo, having Ballard at 4.2 as your #5-6 severely limits your options.

If and when that happens, then you may have a point. But until it does, it's irrelevant. Right now, Ballard isn't hurting the team. He's also rounding into form. It could turn out well down the road...


VAN fans are optimistic that it does.

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10-24-2012, 01:24 PM
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If the cap starts to fall, you'll have no choice but to move him. And the owner have money, but they won't be fond of the idea of paying a guy 4 mil to play in the minors. Edler is due for a big raise. Even if you move Luongo, having Ballard at 4.2 as your #5-6 severely limits your options.
Then we'll move him when that time comes. Until then, we can afford to keep Ballard.

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10-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Unlikly imo. Regardless of what armchair gms think of KK's nhl potential, the isles sound like they like Kabanov's upside and expect him to contibute at the nhl level.
Fair enough. He seems like a very high reward, very high risk type of player. But since all you used on him was a 3rd round pick I guess the potential loss isn't all that much.

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10-24-2012, 02:03 PM
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If and when that happens, then you may have a point. But until it does, it's irrelevant. Right now, Ballard isn't hurting the team. He's also rounding into form. It could turn out well down the road...


VAN fans are optimistic that it does.
Ballard was a healthy scratch during your cup drive==why was that?

personally I believe that Ballard is a prime buy out candidate if there is a buyout free zone

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10-24-2012, 02:13 PM
  #97
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Ballard was a healthy scratch during your cup drive==why was that?
Because he wasn't playing very well. That was a year and a half ago

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10-24-2012, 02:34 PM
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Because he wasn't playing very well. That was a year and a half ago
and he was injured for most of last year, is this correct? this is about his value. When healthy, he was passed by AHLERS for ice time and this last last season he was injured for almost 1/2 (if we assume that none of those games he was not a healthy scratch) the year.

For me, when you factor in those two elements and then look at his contract in a cap world---there is reason to be concerned. He gets almost zero special team time on the ice--this hurts his value

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10-24-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Ballard was a healthy scratch during your cup drive==why was that?

personally I believe that Ballard is a prime buy out candidate if there is a buyout free zone

He was a scratch in part because he wasn't playing well, in part because of injury and in part due to AV.


I disagree with the buy-out bit. His salary is inflated, but not enough to warrant that drastic of an action. He's also playing much better now.


In fact, I think Ballard is set to take on more responsibility with the club. Maybe if they can give that 3rd pairing more minutes, we'll see what its truly capable of.

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10-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
and he was injured for most of last year, is this correct? this is about his value. When healthy, he was passed by AHLERS for ice time and this last last season he was injured for almost 1/2 (if we assume that none of those games he was not a healthy scratch) the year.

For me, when you factor in those two elements and then look at his contract in a cap world---there is reason to be concerned. He gets almost zero special team time on the ice--this hurts his value
What you said about people projecting on Ballard applies directly to what you're doing now. You're bringing up what happened a year and a half and two years ago like it has more weight than what happened last year.

Ballard has to compete with Edler and Hamhuis for special teams on the left side. I'm pretty sure other NHL teams can wrap their head around that.

Ballard finished the season playing the best hockey of his career. No more freelancing, no more bonehead plays. Other teams have pro scouts, they saw it.

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