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Sebastian Collberg - (Part II: The Collberg Report) Joins Hamilton

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10-23-2012, 01:58 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
I dont know much about the different leagues, but why was Collberg playing with Frolunda in the Elitserien league, when top prospects like Forsberg and even Landeskog are in Allsvenskan? Also players like Hagelin and Read- Is there really that much of a gap between both leagues? Just by looking at the rosters... if he gets more ice-time with Allsvenskan, I guess it would be best he stay there.
That's what I wonder too. Why is Collberg in SEL by the way ?
If he has struggled terribly in SEL, that means he's still very very far from NHL.

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10-23-2012, 01:58 PM
  #202
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Great start for Collberg! Hopefully he keeps it up!

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10-23-2012, 02:24 PM
  #203
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Collberg's team lost in OT

1G, +2 (leads the team), 3SOG (2nd in the team)

But do not have the TOI

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10-23-2012, 02:26 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
That's what I wonder too. Why is Collberg in SEL by the way ?
Because in 2010-11 he dominated the Under 20 Swedish league as a 16-17 year old:

35 GP, 21-23-44, 12 PIM

To compare, that's the league Nystrom is playing in now...as a very old 18 year old (turns 19 next week).

The next level after that is the SEL or where Collberg now is, the Allsvenskan. But teams don't have a team in the SEL and a team in the Allsvenskan. Collberg signed with Frolunda at a very young age, a team in SEL that has maintained its spot in the SEL due to team performance. So it was the SEL...or staying in a league he dominated already. Those were their options.

Frolunda most likely felt he had nothing left to learn in that Under 20 league, so they played him a few minutes a game in the SEL as the coach has a hard on for veterans. Which is no way to develop a skilled forward, so he gets this loan to a team that will play him a ton in a league that is somewhat close to the SEL in terms of caliber. It's a FAR better outcome than returning to play at a level he dominated two years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
If he has struggled terribly in SEL, that means he's still very very far from NHL.
Anyone who thought Collberg was a year away from playing in the NHL was kidding themselves. He was always 2-4 years away.

And oh the horror, a skinny 18 year old struggled to produce offensively in minimal minutes in one of the better leagues in the world. Give me a break with trying to paint this into some horrible indication of his NHL future. Collberg has always been an excellent performer against his age group, which is what really matters at this stage.


Last edited by Marc the Habs Fan: 10-23-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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10-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
And oh the horror, a skinny 18 year old struggled to produce offensively in minimal minutes in one of the better leagues in the world. Give me a break with trying to paint this into some horrible indication of his NHL future. Collberg has always been an excellent performer against his age group, which is what really matters at this stage.
zzoo has had some bizarre anti-hype campaign against Collberg since we drafted him, as if people aren't allowed to be excited about one of our prospects.

But even to suggest that he was "struggling terribly" in the SEL is an outright lie and contradiction of the reports from people like Systemfel and strutsboa who actually watch him play.

I'm really happy he's in Allsvenskan and providing immediate dividends. Hopefully he can play a really big role offensively and build his confidence there.

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10-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
zzoo has had some bizarre anti-hype campaign against Collberg since we drafted him, as if people aren't allowed to be excited about one of our prospects.
I like that term ! Seriously, I have nothing against Collberg.

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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
But even to suggest that he was "struggling terribly" in the SEL is an outright lie and contradiction of the reports from people like Systemfel and strutsboa who actually watch him play.

I'm really happy he's in Allsvenskan and providing immediate dividends. Hopefully he can play a really big role offensively and build his confidence there.
Well, he has 0 goal and 2 assists in 62 games in SEL. Is that not bad enough so I call "struggling terribly". Should I wait till 100 games without a single goal so I can say he's bad ?
Again, I want him to be successful. Here, I simply state a fact.... a fact based on stats.

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10-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
That's what I wonder too. Why is Collberg in SEL by the way ?
If he has struggled terribly in SEL, that means he's still very very far from NHL.
Are you judging that based on his stat line again? He wasn't ready to be a first liner in the SEL or carry the grinders he was playing with by any means but he wasn't lost either. The Allsvenskan is only a slight step down and is an ideal fit. He's too good to spend a year in the J20s.

And he was, since day one, 2+ years from the NHL. Which is completely normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
zzoo has had some bizarre anti-hype campaign against Collberg since we drafted him, as if people aren't allowed to be excited about one of our prospects.

But even to suggest that he was "struggling terribly" in the SEL is an outright lie and contradiction of the reports from people like Systemfel and strutsboa who actually watch him play.

I'm really happy he's in Allsvenskan and providing immediate dividends. Hopefully he can play a really big role offensively and build his confidence there.
His entire argument is based on box scores.

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10-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #208
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Great to see Collberg score! But it's pathetic that he has to go down to Allsvenskan in the first place after playing good before getting benched again without any good reason. Hope he tears it up and the media starts questioning Kenta.

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10-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #209
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Great to see Collberg score! But it's pathetic that he has to go down to Allsvenskan in the first place after playing good before getting benched again without any good reason. Hope he tears it up and the media starts questioning Kenta.
From what I've heard, it seems rare for a coach to get fired midway through a season in Sweden compared to the NHL. Is that accurate?

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10-23-2012, 03:19 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
I like that term ! Seriously, I have nothing against Collberg.



Well, he has 0 goal and 2 assists in 62 games in SEL. Is that not bad enough so I call "struggling terribly". Should I wait till 100 games without a single goal so I can say he's bad ?
Again, I want him to be successful. Here, I simply state a fact.... a fact based on stats.
A good fraction of those games he was listed in last year he didn`t even play a minute in, I think he was averaging something 7 minutes a night as a 13th forward.

In that context no points in 40 games is more like no points in 20 for a regular forward, not great, but not the end of the world for a 17 year old in a mens league.

Likewise this season his per minute statistics are that of a SEL top 9 winger, its that he only plays 6 minutes a game on average that he doesn`t have a lot of numbers next to his name.

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10-23-2012, 03:23 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
A good fraction of those games he was listed in last year he didn`t even play a minute in, I think he was averaging something 7 minutes a night as a 13th forward.

In that context no points in 40 games is more like no points in 20 for a regular forward, not great, but not the end of the world for a 17 year old in a mens league.

Likewise this season his per minute statistics are that of a SEL top 9 winger, its that he only plays 6 minutes a game on average that he doesn`t have a lot of numbers next to his name.
He doesn't get to play because he's not putting up points - got to love circular reasoning to conclude Collberg is a bust.

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10-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
I dont know much about the different leagues, but why was Collberg playing with Frolunda in the Elitserien league, when top prospects like Forsberg and even Landeskog are in Allsvenskan? Also players like Hagelin and Read- Is there really that much of a gap between both leagues? Just by looking at the rosters... if he gets more ice-time with Allsvenskan, I guess it would be best he stay there.
kopitar and berglund play in allsvenskan, as well.

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10-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #213
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From what I've heard, it seems rare for a coach to get fired midway through a season in Sweden compared to the NHL. Is that accurate?
No, it happens quite often. Problem is Frölunda probably can't afford to fire Kenta...

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10-23-2012, 03:27 PM
  #214
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No, it happens quite often. Problem is Frölunda probably can't afford to fire Kenta...
I thought Frolunda was one of the better off teams?

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10-23-2012, 03:29 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
A good fraction of those games he was listed in last year he didn`t even play a minute in, I think he was averaging something 7 minutes a night as a 13th forward.

In that context no points in 40 games is more like no points in 20 for a regular forward, not great, but not the end of the world for a 17 year old in a mens league.

Likewise this season his per minute statistics are that of a SEL top 9 winger, its that he only plays 6 minutes a game on average that he doesn`t have a lot of numbers next to his name.
I think it's even worst than simply no points in 20 games because when you play 6-7 mins per night, you can't get in the game and your performance suffers from it. How can you be effective at putting points on the board when you play once every 7-8 minutes? I have no problem for guys that tries to put energie with a hard forcheck and playing physical, because you do not need good hands for this. But this is clearly not Collberg's game.

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10-23-2012, 03:29 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by strutsboa View Post
Collberg scores! 2-2 late in the first!
I'm ecstatic to hear that.

This kid has everything required to be a 30 goal scorer in the NHL, he just needs to put on some mass and gain some experience. Like others have said, he was always 2-4 years away.

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10-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #217
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I'm ecstatic to hear that.

This kid has everything required to be a 30 goal scorer in the NHL, he just needs to put on some mass and gain some experience. Like others have said, he was always 2-4 years away.
1 goal, 3 SOG, 3 scoring chances, 5 shot attempts. Solid outing.

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10-23-2012, 03:49 PM
  #218
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anyone saw how his goal looked like?

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10-23-2012, 04:25 PM
  #219
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anyone saw how his goal looked like?
You can see it here:

http://na.se/sporten/ishockey/nedsla...oll-tungt-igen

Start watching 46 secs in or so... Ok, not exactly great quality but better than nothing.

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10-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #220
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No, Forsberg plays in the Allsvenkian or something, which is a stronger league.
He IS in the Allsvenskan (like F.Forsberg), one step below their no.1 league the SEL.

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10-23-2012, 07:45 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Pellegrino View Post
You can see it here:

http://na.se/sporten/ishockey/nedsla...oll-tungt-igen

Start watching 46 secs in or so... Ok, not exactly great quality but better than nothing.
Thanks for posting.

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10-24-2012, 09:55 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by fantasybaseballchamp View Post
Szymon Szemberg ‏@Sz1909_Szemberg
#Habs 2012 2nd rounder Sebastian Collberg has been sent on loan by Frölunda to 2nd tier Allsvenskan Örebro. 1st game already tonite vs Malmö


https://twitter.com/Sz1909_Szemberg/...66098461048832
This is great news for his development. Hopefully he can continue to produce like he did last night. 3-4 months in this league and a late call up to the SEL would be ideal.

But he really needed this slightly lower tier development opportunity.

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10-24-2012, 03:21 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
That's what I wonder too. Why is Collberg in SEL by the way ?
If he has struggled terribly in SEL, that means he's still very very far from NHL.
sigh... hes a kid playing with 35 year olds and everyone expects him to be sidney crosby all of a sudden

its really too bad.

i didnt know he was drafted 1st overall or something and that he needs to score 50 goals in the SEL for people to think hes a "good prospect"

you'll learn one day, not to judge prospects on stats and numbers alone and realize the very fact he WAS on a SEL team at such a young age is considered impressive in its own right for any prospect at all

if he HAD scored 20 goals in 40 games ....you honestly think he would of fallen to 33 for us? i for one am thanking god he did.

Edit : him being "demoted" to tier 2 is honestly the best news i could of ever hoped for for him, im honestly thrilled, and id wager that he is too

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10-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #224
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sigh... hes a kid playing with 35 year olds and everyone expects him to be sidney crosby all of a sudden

its really too bad.

i didnt know he was drafted 1st overall or something and that he needs to score 50 goals in the SEL for people to think hes a "good prospect"

you'll learn one day, not to judge prospects on stats and numbers alone and realize the very fact he WAS on a SEL team at such a young age is considered impressive in its own right for any prospect at all

if he HAD scored 20 goals in 40 games ....you honestly think he would of fallen to 33 for us? i for one am thanking god he did.

Edit : him being "demoted" to tier 2 is honestly the best news i could of ever hoped for for him, im honestly thrilled, and id wager that he is too
He's always dominated his age group and when thrust into the SEL he was never really given a good opportunity to perform, as evidenced by his limited role/line mates and ice-time. He recently had an increased role, and it's where his 2 assists came from.

He has world-class skill. He has 70pt NHL upside. People need to calm down and let the kid develop. Pacioretty was considered a lost cause by so many until his breakout in the A at the beginning of 2010. He didn't make his mark in the NHL until 22/23. Some people *NEVER* learn.

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10-24-2012, 04:02 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
I like that term ! Seriously, I have nothing against Collberg.



Well, he has 0 goal and 2 assists in 62 games in SEL. Is that not bad enough so I call "struggling terribly". Should I wait till 100 games without a single goal so I can say he's bad ?
Again, I want him to be successful. Here, I simply state a fact.... a fact based on stats.
My problem is that it's been explained to you numerous times why it's not entirely fair to read Collberg's stat line as gospel, and you have to take into consideration the extraneous circumstances surrounding him, the coach, the team he plays for, etc. Despite all that, you have repeatedly stuck your head in the sand and refused to engage in any kind of debate about it. You're on page 9 of thread 2 on Collberg and you're still asking the same questions you were asking back in June. This is what makes it seems like you have some kind of vendetta against him.

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