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Rielly vs Grigorenko vs Forsberg vs Faksa

View Poll Results: In hindsight, who would you have taken?
Rielly...somethin between Orr and Leetch 99 72.79%
Grigorenko...somethin between Malkin and Antropov 21 15.44%
Forsberg...Swedish Rick Nash, not a center 14 10.29%
Faksa...big 2-way center potential great #2C 2 1.47%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #76
Interactif
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I absolutely fail to see, to this day, how anyone would rate Murray over Rielly. It's all a matter of opinion, but I don't see Murray as a "Special" player.
Different players, again you like more obvious talent types, I like both. Understated does not mean less talented or less value.

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10-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I see Grigs as a Boom or Bust prospect. Considering his relatively unpolished all around game (weak defensively, doesn't use his size, etc). He NEEDS to score at a high pace to be considered a franchise player.

Toews can put up 70 points, and be considered a franchise player. If Grigorenko puts up 70 points, he'd be considered a below average first-line Centre. Kinda like when Ribeiro puts up those types of numbers, but nobody considers him to be a franchise player.

So for Grigs to be considered a franchise player, he either needs to greatly round out his game, or he needs to be putting up some phenomenal numbers, 80+ points on a consistent basis.

Faksa on the other hand is more of a steady prospect. Good two-way game, questionable high-end skill. But if he only puts up 50 points a season, he could still become a pretty valuable piece. Grigorenko putting up 50 points? Pretty useless player (barring improved defensive/physical play).
Where are you getting this scouting report?

http://oilersrepublic.blogspot.ca/20...ng-report.html

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10-23-2012, 02:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by IBeLEAFInRielly View Post
Prior to the draft, this poll probably wouldn't be so one-sided. Many Leaf fans, myself included were leaning towards either Grigs or Forsberg (my pick).

I'll admit I suffered from tunnel vision, praying we drafted a forward. Since we've drafted Rielly, I cannot wait until he's up with the big club. His potential is sky-high, although I'm trying to keep my expectation into perspective, however Rielly is making that very tough with the start he's had with Moose Jaw so far this season. I haven't been this excited for a Toronto-based prospect since Araujo for the Raps

Definitely considering buying his jersey when he's up with the Leafs
You're not the only one. I'm usually spot on in assessment, but I gladly admit, and tip my hat to the Leafs brass and say, I was wrong.

Morgan Reilly really is looking like a player that could have been reasonably ranked as a club's number one player in that draft.

Compare, Gally, compare, Murray, Reinhart, etc...and Reilly is looking very, very good.

Lost in all of this is Finn...Anyone check out his progress thus far?

Oh yes, Leafs Nation...Finn in the 2nd was an absolute steal.

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10-23-2012, 02:12 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Different players, again you like more obvious talent types, I like both. Understated does not mean less talented or less value.
I would argue that he is, in fact, less talented. Just because he's more physically developed, and is thus far better in his own end, doesn't mean he's as talented.

There are few, if any, as talented as Morgan Rielly in this past draft. He has the tools to be a special player, on and off the scoresheet.

Also, I'm Kenny Ryan's biggest fan, a big fan of guys like Devane, Ross, Komarov, etc. I don't just like kids with elite skill, I appreciate the talents and roles of all types of players.

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10-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #80
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Yeah the mono, everyone knew he had it, they factored it into his performance. We will see if scouts and GM's were right to pass on him, knowing his situation. You obviously like him, I like him as a secondary support center. Nothing to do with him being Russian or his attitude, it's more based on seeing nothing particularily extraordinary in him. Ernie will call this a hack job because I don't fawn over this prospect like he does. To me it's called disagreeing viewpoints. That's hockey.
It's more about filling a need than how much i like Grigo ( i'll be honest i do like him but taking a Russian with some ? marks that high would scare the crap out of me ). This being said i always believe in taking bpa especially with a lottery pick and i'm quite happy we selected a talent like Reilly .

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10-23-2012, 02:22 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBeLEAFInRielly View Post
Prior to the draft, this poll probably wouldn't be so one-sided. Many Leaf fans, myself included were leaning towards either Grigs or Forsberg (my pick).

I'll admit I suffered from tunnel vision, praying we drafted a forward. Since we've drafted Rielly, I cannot wait until he's up with the big club. His potential is sky-high, although I'm trying to keep my expectation into perspective, however Rielly is making that very tough with the start he's had with Moose Jaw so far this season. I haven't been this excited for a Toronto-based prospect since Araujo for the Raps

Definitely considering buying his jersey when he's up with the Leafs
That was a fun time, prior to the draft. I would have been happy if we drafted, Murray, Rielly or Dumba had they been on the board. Wasn't as high on Reinhart but I had him as the 4th best D in the draft and a lot at the next level including our own Matt Finn. Looking back it was tight between Murray and Rielly. Don't think you can go wrong with either on your team, different players but both can be cornerstones and stud D's on your team. This is why I advocated for a D man. Didn't see Gally, Grigs, as franchise C's. One can argue Rielly could be the franchise D when he hits his prime.

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10-23-2012, 02:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by IBeLEAFInRielly View Post
Prior to the draft, this poll probably wouldn't be so one-sided. Many Leaf fans, myself included were leaning towards either Grigs or Forsberg (my pick).
We did have a poll prior to the draft which asked who'd take with our 5th if Yak/Gal/Murray/Fore were already off the board and it was a landslide win for Grigo . Only about 5 out of the 150/200 who voted chose Rielly .

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10-23-2012, 02:24 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I would argue that he is, in fact, less talented. Just because he's more physically developed, and is thus far better in his own end, doesn't mean he's as talented.

There are few, if any, as talented as Morgan Rielly in this past draft. He has the tools to be a special player, on and off the scoresheet.

Also, I'm Kenny Ryan's biggest fan, a big fan of guys like Devane, Ross, Komarov, etc. I don't just like kids with elite skill, I appreciate the talents and roles of all types of players.
What are your thoughts on Jonathan Huberdeau? Just curious? Better than Gally or you would prefer Gally over Jonathan.

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10-23-2012, 02:28 PM
  #84
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Only guy I wanted over Morgan Rielly that could have realistically been available at #5 (ie. not Nail Yakupov) was Alex Galchenyuk.

Therefore, easily Rielly.

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10-23-2012, 02:31 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
We did have a poll prior to the draft which asked who'd take with our 5th if Yak/Gal/Murray/Fore were already off the board and it was a landslide win for Grigo . Only about 5 out of the 150/200 who voted chose Rielly .
WOW, that is why they manage the team and we praise or criticize. Burke noting Rielly as the Leafs number 1 option probably wasn't so far fetched as initially thought

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10-23-2012, 02:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
What are your thoughts on Jonathan Huberdeau? Just curious? Better than Gally or you would prefer Gally over Jonathan.
Huberdeau is a wonderful young player. He's got a first-rate work ethic, a great attitude, leadership ability, you name it.

What does he have to do with the past draft? or Morgan Rielly?

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10-23-2012, 02:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I absolutely fail to see, to this day, how anyone would rate Murray over Rielly. It's all a matter of opinion, but I don't see Murray as a "Special" player.
Not sure what you consider "special" but Murray is an incredibly reliable defenceman that you can put up in any situation against any match up and he has a really good chance of being able to shutdown top players. High end decision making, excellent skating and a born leader. I'd say that is pretty special.

I'm not knocking Rielly though. I like him better than Murray. Rielly has that dynamic quality where he can be the centre focus for the opposition to try and shutdown, Murray would basically be the opposition's best response for players like Rielly.

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10-23-2012, 02:38 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Huberdeau is a wonderful young player. He's got a first-rate work ethic, a great attitude, leadership ability, you name it.

What does he have to do with the past draft? or Morgan Rielly?
Who would you take, Gally, Grigorenko or Huberdeau if they were available in the same draft?

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10-23-2012, 02:40 PM
  #89
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Who would you take, Gally, Grigorenko or Huberdeau if they were available in the same draft?
They aren't the same age, and not in the same draft.
If we sat at 3 in Huberdeau's draft, I would've taken him
If we sat at 3 in the last draft, I would've taken Galchenyuk.

We weren't in position for either, and so I'm more than thrilled with having Morgan. He's a true blue-chip blueliner, and something we also needed, whether or not I see it as high a priority as the center position.

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10-23-2012, 02:40 PM
  #90
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i wud prefer a forward, not a lot of great forward prospects

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10-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #91
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It's more about filling a need than how much i like Grigo ( i'll be honest i do like him but taking a Russian with some ? marks that high would scare the crap out of me ). This being said i always believe in taking bpa especially with a lottery pick and i'm quite happy we selected a talent like Reilly .
I think the kid cares, he was obviously dissapointed at the draft seeing name after name called before him. I don't even think it's a Russian thing at the moment, though I hear you the KHL is always a factor.

I just don't see anything special about the guy, he looks very one dimensional, good ice vision, good hanfds, but slow, lethargic, and not very exciting. Night and day watching him and Huberdeau or even Monahan line up this summer.

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10-23-2012, 02:45 PM
  #92
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I think the kid cares, he was obviously dissapointed at the draft seeing name after name called before him. I don't even think it's a Russian thing at the moment, though I hear you the KHL is always a factor.

I just don't see anything special about the guy, he looks very one dimensional, good ice vision, good hanfds, but slow, lethargic, and not very exciting. Night and day watching him and Huberdeau or even Monahan line up this summer.
Yeah, but these are still guys you need. Not everyone needs to be Joe Sakic to make an impact. Phil Kessel says what's up.

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10-23-2012, 02:46 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
They aren't the same age, and not in the same draft.
If we sat at 3 in Huberdeau's draft, I would've taken him
If we sat at 3 in the last draft, I would've taken Galchenyuk.

We weren't in position for either, and so I'm more than thrilled with having Morgan. He's a true blue-chip blueliner, and something we also needed, whether or not I see it as high a priority as the center position.
Nice dodge, I would have taken Huberdeau if they were the same age, I would have taken Tavares over Stamkos. It's easy to speculate, try it sometime, I'm pretty sure you would have taken Gally just for the record, you may have even considered Gally had he been up against Tavares and or Stamkos. lol

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10-23-2012, 02:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by IBeLEAFInRielly View Post
WOW, that is why they manage the team and we praise or criticize. Burke noting Rielly as the Leafs number 1 option probably wasn't so far fetched as initially thought
We'll see in a few years about Burkes statement but the truth is this was a very good draft year . It became a wide open top 15 because of all the injuries/illness that hit a number of the top prospects .

Lets be honest , considering the start Grigo's had we'd be just as happy with him as we are with Rielly .

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10-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Nice dodge, I would have taken Huberdeau if they were the same age, I would have taken Tavares over Stamkos. It's easy to speculate, try it sometime, I'm pretty sure you would have taken Gally just for the record, you may have even considered Gally had he been up against Tavares and or Stamkos. lol
Please let this stand as an example of how silly and childish you really are.

I like all 3 players, and I would be happy to have any of them.
I won't play your stupid hypothetical game, so you take it as a chance to try and make me look stupid, and attempt to humilliate me?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

If we were in position to take Galchenyuk, I would've picked him. Everyone on the board knows this. He's a solid center prospect with tons of upside to his game.

I also wanted Grigorenko, so we could finally have a potential #1 center prospect in the system, after Montreal took Galchenyuk, as I see the center position as a vital component to a winning team.

If we were #3 ahead of Florida, in Huberdeau's draft year, he would've been a Leaf. I'm a Sea Dogs enthusiast. You might also remember I wanted Jurco when we picked Percy.

As hotpaws stated above me in his last line, we would all be glowing about the great performances Grigorenko has put in thus far this season, if he were our prospect to follow.

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10-23-2012, 02:53 PM
  #96
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I don't see how any of this has become clearer in the last few months
i don't see it either. that's because it hasn't become any clearer in the last few months.

they're drafted in june, don't play at all until mid-september, and are just now about 10-15 games into their 2012-13 junior seasons. and we're supposed to have a clearer picture of the draft's outcome?

of course, that apparently hasn't stopped most in this thread from pretending they know anything about these players.

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10-23-2012, 02:58 PM
  #97
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i don't see it either. that's because it hasn't become any clearer in the last few months.

they're drafted in june, don't play at all until mid-september, and are just now about 10-15 games into their 2012-13 junior seasons. and we're supposed to have a clearer picture of the draft's outcome?

of course, that apparently hasn't stopped most in this thread from pretending they know anything about these players.
I agree, in that you can't project development on 15-20 games of a post-draft year, but this myth that people don't watch junior hockey really has to die. Just because you don't watch, or others don't take the time to watch, doesn't mean that there aren't those on the board that do, and/or have people they trust watching, or know people in certain places that give solid analysis.

Really, not everyone lives in a shell.

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10-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #98
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Please let this stand as an example of how silly and childish you really are.

I like all 3 players, and I would be happy to have any of them.
I won't play your stupid hypothetical game, so you take it as a chance to try and make me look stupid, and attempt to humilliate me?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

If we were in position to take Galchenyuk, I would've picked him. Everyone on the board knows this. He's a solid center prospect with tons of upside to his game.

I also wanted Grigorenko, so we could finally have a potential #1 center prospect in the system, after Montreal took Galchenyuk, as I see the center position as a vital component to a winning team.

If we were #3 ahead of Florida, in Huberdeau's draft year, he would've been a Leaf. I'm a Sea Dogs enthusiast. You might also remember I wanted Jurco when we picked Percy.

As hotpaws stated above me in his last line, we would all be glowing about the great performances Grigorenko has put in thus far this season, if he were our prospect to follow.
You just like to skirt all around the questions without answering a straight question, this is not court, you are not on trial. I simply wanted to know as if we were sitting having a drink at a bar discussing hockey, who would you have picked first had Huberdeau, Grigs, and Gally were all available? Easy answer for most, all 3, what kind of half assed wimpy answer is that? Kinda of childish that you even have trouble answering a simple question like that.

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10-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #99
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To elaborate, Forsberg plays on Leksands (in Allsvenskan) because it's his hometown team. Most players in Europe play for their hometown team or the closest team to where they live and these players have strong allegiance to these teams. Until Leksands advances back the SEL, they'll be playing tier-2 hockey. That being said, many fans feel that Allsvenskan is a high level of hockey and on-par, if not above, the FEL.
Hi, swedish hockey fan lurking around...saw this thread and had to give an input on the relegation/promotions tier system.

Allsvenskan (SWE tier 2) is often regarded as the "AHL" (or a farm leauge) of the Swedish Elite Leauge by NA'cans here. It is true in one sense, Allsvenskan generally has younger players than the SEL, and many players there obviously hope to get picked up to the SEL (or even NHL or some other leauge). SEL teams sometimes also give a Allsvenskan team players on loan, when a depth player isnt needed or a player under development doesnt get enough top minutes.

BUT in contrast to the AHL, most Allsvenskan teams strive to get promoted. You cannot get promoted by just winning the regular season. You get promoted by ending up first or second in a qualifing series against other top Allsvenskan teams as well as the two worst teams from the SEL season.

To get promoted you obviously have to be at least as good as the worst of the SEL. And it isnt unusal for teams from Allsvenskan to get promoted and SEL teams to get relegated. Thus the top teams from Allsvenskan = worst from SEL. Obviously the best SEL teams is generally better (at least a lot more expensive) than the top Allsvenskan teams, and the worst SEL teams are better than the worst Allsvenskan teams.

Swedish hockey doesnt have a salary cap, so the parity you have in the NHL for instance doesnt exist in Sweden. The talent tend to slope already within the SEL, so the talent drop between the top div and the second, is only significant when you compare the best SEL teams to a Allsvenskan team.

You are absolutely right about the "howntown" allegiance. Getting your hometown club promoted is almost as big as winning the Swedish championship.


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10-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #100
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I agree, in that you can't project development on 15-20 games of a post-draft year, but this myth that people don't watch junior hockey really has to die. Just because you don't watch, or others don't take the time to watch, doesn't mean that there aren't those on the board that do, and/or have people they trust watching, or know people in certain places that give solid analysis.

Really, not everyone lives in a shell.
that's certainly true. i'm sure there are those posting here who do watch junior hockey and know plenty about it. i would love to watch it regularly, but no team here in st.john's. i do follow and watch on tv as much as i can, mostly the qmjhl.

but i'll stand by the statement that a majority posting comments and opinions here in fact do not watch much junior hockey. i'd bet a lot of money of it. looking at stats and reading others' opinions, that's all most can or are willing to do.

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