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Rielly vs Grigorenko vs Forsberg vs Faksa

View Poll Results: In hindsight, who would you have taken?
Rielly...somethin between Orr and Leetch 99 72.79%
Grigorenko...somethin between Malkin and Antropov 21 15.44%
Forsberg...Swedish Rick Nash, not a center 14 10.29%
Faksa...big 2-way center potential great #2C 2 1.47%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #101
Interactif
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Yeah, but these are still guys you need. Not everyone needs to be Joe Sakic to make an impact. Phil Kessel says what's up.
That's the thing isn't it? How often do the Leafs have a chance of drafting a quality prospect like Morgan Rielly?

You pass on him for positional need? Nope you do as Burke did, BPA.

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10-23-2012, 03:10 PM
  #102
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You just like to skirt all around the questions without answering a straight question, this is not court, you are not on trial. I simply wanted to know as if we were sitting having a drink at a bar discussing hockey, who would you have picked first had Huberdeau, Grigs, and Gally were all available? Easy answer for most, all 3, what kind of half assed wimpy answer is that? Kinda of childish that you even have trouble answering a simple question like that.
You ever heard the saying "don't feed the troll" ?
Understand why I gave my honest answer on that question.

I liked all 3 players, and would've liked to have seen all of them be Leafs, if the circumstances lined up to pick any of them.

that's like asking...... If you could pick one of Lemieux, Gretzky, or Crosby, who would you take?

Well, they were all great young prospects, and they all had their strengths. It's a matter of opinion, but the reality is, you didn't have to make that choice. You choose who you have the ability to choose. We didn't have the ability to take either of Huberdeau or Gally, but I liked both. Had we been in a position to choose either, I would've.

At this point, saying that one will turn out better than the other is impossible. They're at different stages of their careers, on different teams, in different leagues, and developing under different circumstances.

My opinion is not a mystery on the two center prospects from this draft. Go back to the draft thread from June, if you want answers..

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10-23-2012, 03:13 PM
  #103
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that's certainly true. i'm sure there are those posting here who do watch junior hockey and know plenty about it. i would love to watch it regularly, but no team here in st.john's. i do follow and watch on tv as much as i can, mostly the qmjhl.

but i'll stand by the statement that a majority posting comments and opinions here in fact do not watch much junior hockey. i'd bet a lot of money of it. looking at stats and reading others' opinions, that's all most can or are willing to do.
I agree, there are PLENTY here who only know junior hockey exists because the draft gets so much press these days.

Out of curiosity, which QMJHL team are you a fan of?
I, personally, like the Sea Dogs, and Remparts, as my Uncle is a Remparts season ticket holder for years, and used to take me to games as a kid.

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10-23-2012, 03:20 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
You ever heard the saying "don't feed the troll" ?
Understand why I gave my honest answer on that question.

I liked all 3 players, and would've liked to have seen all of them be Leafs, if the circumstances lined up to pick any of them.

that's like asking...... If you could pick one of Lemieux, Gretzky, or Crosby, who would you take?

Well, they were all great young prospects, and they all had their strengths. It's a matter of opinion, but the reality is, you didn't have to make that choice. You choose who you have the ability to choose. We didn't have the ability to take either of Huberdeau or Gally, but I liked both. Had we been in a position to choose either, I would've.

At this point, saying that one will turn out better than the other is impossible. They're at different stages of their careers, on different teams, in different leagues, and developing under different circumstances.

My opinion is not a mystery on the two center prospects from this draft. Go back to the draft thread from June, if you want answers..
I would take Gretzky, Lemieux and a long way back to Crosby in this order. See it's that easy Ernie. Calm down, no need to call me troll, if you look my responses to you, this is how 2 buddies would talk over a drink. You boiling because you can't make up your mind over Grigorenko, Gally or Huberdeau? And someone is trying to have a conversation with you? I just don't get why you are so uncommittal? Ok I get the message, you don't want to answer.

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10-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #105
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If you really want an answer, I would go with Galchenyuk, then. Because looking at his first year, in a league that you consider better, he had a better overall game than Huberdeau did in his first year. He didn't have the chance to have the breakout season last year, as 95% of it was wiped out by a knee injury. He's used a week's worth of playoff games, and the first 10 games of this year re-adjusting to the game, and is doing just fine, thus far.

I think he has all of the skills I like about Huberdeau, with a bigger body. I take Galchenyuk, with Huberdeau right behind, and Grigorenko after that.

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10-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
That's the thing isn't it? How often do the Leafs have a chance of drafting a quality prospect like Morgan Rielly?

You pass on him for positional need? Nope you do as Burke did, BPA.
Which I'm fine with, but one-dimensionality does not inherently make you a less important or impactful hockey player.

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10-23-2012, 03:30 PM
  #107
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Which I'm fine with, but one-dimensionality does not inherently make you a less important or impactful hockey player.
Pavel Bure is a wonderful example of this. One-dimensional game changer.

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10-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #108
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Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...

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10-23-2012, 03:51 PM
  #109
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Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...
I'd probably agree that Rielly's a one dimensional player right now. Obviously it doesn't show as much because he's in junior, but his defensive game remains a little subpar compared to a guy like Murray or maybe even Reinhart. Rielly and Gardiner are both in the same boat, in my opinion. Both are great offensive players and both have the skating and speed to be great positionally sound defensemen as well. If they ever reach that all around ability is up to them, however.

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10-23-2012, 03:58 PM
  #110
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Rielly isn't one dimensional in the least.

He can skate, shoot, pass, think, grit, lead, score, and yes, play defense too.

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10-23-2012, 03:59 PM
  #111
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I'd probably agree that Rielly's a one dimensional player right now. Obviously it doesn't show as much because he's in junior, but his defensive game remains a little subpar compared to a guy like Murray or maybe even Reinhart. Rielly and Gardiner are both in the same boat, in my opinion. Both are great offensive players and both have the skating and speed to be great positionally sound defensemen as well. If they ever reach that all around ability is up to them, however.
We should get a good look at where Rielly's defensive game stands if he is on the WJC roster for Canada. Playing against some of top young players should give us a good indications at where his defensive game is and where he'll need to improve.

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10-23-2012, 04:00 PM
  #112
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I would still pick Rielly, but Grigorenko is a close second. Grigs has the potential to be a great star player in the NHL.

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10-23-2012, 04:09 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
If you really want an answer, I would go with Galchenyuk, then. Because looking at his first year, in a league that you consider better, he had a better overall game than Huberdeau did in his first year. He didn't have the chance to have the breakout season last year, as 95% of it was wiped out by a knee injury. He's used a week's worth of playoff games, and the first 10 games of this year re-adjusting to the game, and is doing just fine, thus far.

I think he has all of the skills I like about Huberdeau, with a bigger body. I take Galchenyuk, with Huberdeau right behind, and Grigorenko after that.
See that was easy Ernie.

I would take Huberdeau, think he has all the qualities of Jonathan Toews. Though he is probably not as talented as Toews. See his QMJHL stats last season? Better than Grigorenko's PPG pace this year, and he has a whole lot more intangibles to his game as seen in the memorial cup and the russia/canada series this summer.

Gally has that promise tag that you have been gushing over since this summer, since he came back from injury he has exactly 19 points in 20 games, playoffs included. Remember this is what I was leary about him, obvious talent like Grabo, but when you look up with Grabo atleast he has never been close to a PPG player. Wonder when he will break out? Less than a PPG for a player a player that was picked for his obvious highlight reel talents. Atleast I will give Grigorenko the cred and perhaps the edge in that dept for now, he's atleast producing points abeit in a league where almost everyone scores.

But for me it's Huberdeau and a long way back to the other 2 at this moment in time.

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10-23-2012, 04:10 PM
  #114
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Which I'm fine with, but one-dimensionality does not inherently make you a less important or impactful hockey player.
It does when your name is Alex Semin, to use one example.

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10-23-2012, 04:11 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by IBeLEAFInRielly View Post
We should get a good look at where Rielly's defensive game stands if he is on the WJC roster for Canada. Playing against some of top young players should give us a good indications at where his defensive game is and where he'll need to improve.
I'm looking forward to watching him in that situation .

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10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
  #116
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Huberdeau and Galchenyuk possess almost the exact same qualities as players, with one further along in development, and the other being the bigger (physically) of the two. I think at the end of the day, you're looking at players with very similar upside.

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10-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #117
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I'm looking forward to watching him in that situation .
Sucks that some of the games are being played at 4am ET. Have to PVR the games like I did the Canada-Russia challenge which was a treat to watch

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10-23-2012, 04:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...
I just remember Bobby Mac saying best offensive defenceman in the draft when he was picked, don't recall the one dimensional comment. Probably was a compliment because all I recall was Mcgiure and B Mac saying great pick by Toronto.

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10-23-2012, 04:28 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Huberdeau and Galchenyuk possess almost the exact same qualities as players, with one further along in development, and the other being the bigger (physically) of the two. I think at the end of the day, you're looking at players with very similar upside.
Gally was hurt last year, will give him the benefit of that doubt, but he is a long way away from what Huberdeau was at the same stage of development at the same age at this early stage of the season. Huberdeau is looking every bit a franchise center for Florida soon, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a better player than RNH, or atleast mentioned along side of him.

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10-23-2012, 04:31 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...
And the scouts over at FC called him a solid defensive player. One scouting report is what you base your whole opinion on? I've watched him 6 times now (3 last year, 3 this year). He's a smart player capable of making good defensive reads. Of course it's not up to par with his offensive game but he's no slouch.

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That was a fun time, prior to the draft. I would have been happy if we drafted, Murray, Rielly or Dumba had they been on the board. Wasn't as high on Reinhart but I had him as the 4th best D in the draft and a lot at the next level including our own Matt Finn. Looking back it was tight between Murray and Rielly. Don't think you can go wrong with either on your team, different players but both can be cornerstones and stud D's on your team. This is why I advocated for a D man. Didn't see Gally, Grigs, as franchise C's. One can argue Rielly could be the franchise D when he hits his prime.
Sorry, but I'm going to have to call you out. You were advocating for Murray and Dumba. You hardly ever mentioned Rielly. And as for building from the net out, this was your top 6

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=579

I certainly don't see Rielly there, and I see 4 forwards to 2 D. Building from their net out?

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As you can see typing on BB not easy. At one point I may have bought into the russian factor. I just don't think grigorenko is that talented. He's slow, he's not a psssionate player on the ice. By that I mean he has yet to impose his will on a game.

He does possess good vision and has hands. Francise C? No, top 6 C maybe. 2C secondary scorer at the NHL is where I see him.
Funny, lets take a look at what you said pre draft, outside of you ranking him second in your top 6.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=406

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=264

So pre draft, he is an elite/franchise center. Now, not only has he lost the elite/franchise center tag you threw on him, he's only capable of making the 2nd line?

What made you come to this conclusion? All the good reports from Buffalo? Him doing amazing in the Q this year? Him looking more engaged this year? Or is it just because the Leafs didn't draft him?

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10-23-2012, 04:54 PM
  #121
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And the scouts over at FC called him a solid defensive player. One scouting report is what you base your whole opinion on? I've watched him 6 times now (3 last year, 3 this year). He's a smart player capable of making good defensive reads. Of course it's not up to par with his offensive game but he's no slouch.



Sorry, but I'm going to have to call you out. You were advocating for Murray and Dumba. You hardly ever mentioned Rielly. And as for building from the net out, this was your top 6

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=579

I certainly don't see Rielly there, and I see 4 forwards to 2 D. Building from their net out?



Funny, lets take a look at what you said pre draft, outside of you ranking him second in your top 6.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=406

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=264

So pre draft, he is an elite/franchise center. Now, not only has he lost the elite/franchise center tag you threw on him, he's only capable of making the 2nd line?

What made you come to this conclusion? All the good reports from Buffalo? Him doing amazing in the Q this year? Him looking more engaged this year? Or is it just because the Leafs didn't draft him?
There was a time I had Grigorenko as high as at atleast 5 at one time, but that was before his showing in the playoffs, many people started questioning him then. But this was early on and not a finalized list. My finalized list actually had Forsberg in the top 5. But to hold any scout, to a mid term, or preliminary ranking is simply ludicrous. We all make adjustments until a final consensus is formed in our mind. Same thing for this year, just because I have Shinkaruk in my top 5 right now doesn't mean he will be there by the end of the year.

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10-23-2012, 04:58 PM
  #122
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i wanted grigs at the draft and actually hated we picked a D. I had a feeling Rielly was who we were going to draft, and after 5 min being angry we drafted a D i was happy we got Rielly.

the next day couldn't believe we got Finn,

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10-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #123
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I just remember Bobby Mac saying best offensive defenceman in the draft when he was picked, don't recall the one dimensional comment. Probably was a compliment because all I recall was Mcgiure and B Mac saying great pick by Toronto.
He definately said it in a flattering way, but he did imply that the defense needed work which goes without saying of such prospects.

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10-23-2012, 05:04 PM
  #124
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Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...
Yep, you got it right. But Bobby Mac said some say may be 1 dimensional. But you can hear Mac and Mcguire with nothing but good things about Morgan. Outstanding pick by the Leafs Mcguire exclaimed.

Mac said Nonis and Burke were hinting hard that this was the player they were going to pick.

Button - dynamic offensively, quickness of the mind, so good defensively by getting the puck out of the zone, processes the play quicker than anybody, no one a better passer in the draft, worked hard to get back, control the tempo of the game.



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10-23-2012, 05:09 PM
  #125
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And the scouts over at FC called him a solid defensive player. One scouting report is what you base your whole opinion on? I've watched him 6 times now (3 last year, 3 this year). He's a smart player capable of making good defensive reads. Of course it's not up to par with his offensive game but he's no slouch.
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Bobby Mac also said Rielly was 1-dimensional as well...but then he went on to say that he may be the best at that dimension in the draft...


It's not my opinion, I'm not Bobby Mac

And it's prolly not his opinion either...

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