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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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10-23-2012, 01:50 PM
  #376
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Cuz I don't think the fans really care until they have something so blatant they can get worked up about it. There's just something about someone coming right out and saying that they think you're a piece of **** that gets people riled up. Otherwise, fans just ignore it
For me, actions have spoken much louder than any words could.

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10-23-2012, 01:52 PM
  #377
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That could go for any commissioner. Do you think any of the major pro sports leagues here give a **** about the fans? The NBA just locked out last year and the NFL trotted out replacement refs to save a couple of million.
Those leagues have never lost full seasons, let alone the possibility of two lost seasons in a decade.

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10-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #378
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10-23-2012, 01:57 PM
  #379
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For me, actions have spoken much louder than any words could.
Losing a full season of play was deafening.

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10-23-2012, 01:59 PM
  #380
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Losing a full season of play was deafening.
Yea, but its fine. He did put "THANK YOU FANS" on all the ice surfaces when they came back.

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10-23-2012, 02:00 PM
  #381
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I would have locked out the players last time too. This time its ridiculous.

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10-23-2012, 02:00 PM
  #382
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And yet the NHL has done better than ever...except now when they say they have to have strict cutbacks on everything

meh, the thing is that Americans are so obsessed with sports and competition and finding outlets from their depressing lives that they'll come back no matter how terribly the NHL treats them (or really any pro sport they're a fan of)

At least I give the NHL the bare minimum of the money I can and still be able to watch games

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10-23-2012, 02:13 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
And yet the NHL has done better than ever...except now when they say they have to have strict cutbacks on everything

meh, the thing is that Americans are so obsessed with sports and competition and finding outlets from their depressing lives that they'll come back no matter how terribly the NHL treats them (or really any pro sport they're a fan of)

At least I give the NHL the bare minimum of the money I can and still be able to watch games
I owe you a drink, my friend

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10-23-2012, 02:16 PM
  #384
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Maybe I'm missing something; why is it a big deal if the GMs answer questions from the players regarding the proposal? Maybe I'm having a brain fart.
In labor law there is something referred to as "direct dealing." It basically states that an employer cannot under any circumstance discuss matters subject to bargaining with a bargaining unit employee. Management can only bargain and take action with the union, rather than employees directly.

That the NHL thinks they can do this is mind boggling. They're either incredibly ignorant or arrogant beyond belief. If they want to do a QA, they're going to need the consent and participation of the NHLPA, or else they're opening themselves us to a very legitimate ULP claim.

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10-23-2012, 02:19 PM
  #385
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At this point the NHLPA should come up with another creative proposal. It would gain them some sympathy in the PR battle and might jump start something. The NHL couldn't stay on the high ground about having made two proposals back to back and negotiating against themselves.

If the latest proposal actually had some consessions in it, public opinion would sway and force the owners' hands.

Potentially.
I do not think that the NHLPA has lost any ground in the PR battle. Most of the public sides with them. Heck, on ESPN radio and WFAN, two people that I would have never thougth of, talked about it. Kay said that Bettman attempted to put pressure on the players by making the proposal so public. Then he said that Fehr outsmarted him and put the pressure back on him

Franseca, over the weekend, called teh lockout " a pure money grab by the owners".

No, I do think that the PR is on the side of the owners. Not one writer can answer why you would hand out such contracts and then days latter, demand that they be diminished. Last time, it was about changing the system to get a cap. This time, it is about the owners wanting more money and trying to squeeze it out of the players.

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10-23-2012, 02:22 PM
  #386
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Those leagues have never lost full seasons, let alone the possibility of two lost seasons in a decade.
Bravo. That is all that one needs to say. Loosing two seasons in a decade is shamefull. It averages out to canceling one out of every 5 years. What sports league does that?

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10-23-2012, 02:24 PM
  #387
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Bravo. That is all that one needs to say. Loosing two seasons in a decade is shamefull. It averages out to canceling one out of every 5 years. What sports league does that?
Wait let me check that math. Yep I got the same thing.

However, this season hasn't been cancelled.

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10-23-2012, 02:43 PM
  #388
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Yea, but its fine. He did put "THANK YOU FANS" on all the ice surfaces when they came back.
The "for being saps" was written in white.

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10-23-2012, 02:52 PM
  #389
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Someone needs to ask Gary Bettman what Jenny asked Forrest on the school bus

"Are you stupid or something?"

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Now, it looks like Bettman made another serious miscalculation.

Bettman and the league released a memo last week, unbeknownst to the NHLPA, that said general managers across the league were permitted to talk to players during a specific 48-hour window. But instead of easing the tension of what is sure to be awkward communication between a team’s executive and his players, the league’s actions may have a deleterious effect.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ienate-players

July 13 proposal. Miscalculation. A series of miscalculations.

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10-23-2012, 02:54 PM
  #390
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According to TSN article it looks like Kovalchuk is siding with Ovechkin's sentiments of staying in the KHL if player's salaries are reduced.

Patty Kane also just signed in switzerland.

#Circus

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10-23-2012, 03:01 PM
  #391
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Brooks chiming in:

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
The NHL operates under one playbook: threaten, shut down, attempt to divide and conquer. Pathetic.

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10-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #392
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Brooks chiming in:

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
The NHL operates under one playbook: threaten, shut down, attempt to divide and conquer. Pathetic.
That's the modus operandi for management in 99% of labor disputes.

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10-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #393
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Bill Daly indicated the NHL is willing to be flexible

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"We made clear at our meeting on Thursday that if the terms of the 'make whole' is something they wanted us to negotiate over or address, we’re more than happy to do it," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPN.com in a phone interview Tuesday.
Quote:
My belief is the NHL is willing to play ball here, willing to have its owners fork up some money in a revised "make whole" formula that might help satisfy players.
Quote:
The other mechanism that's out there is the "phase-in" formula, where the players’ share of hockey-related revenue starts high enough in order to mitigate the escrow impact in the first year or two and eventually gets to a 50-50 split.
Quote:
Asked about the "phase-in" as an option, Daly didn't rule it out as option instead of the "make whole," although my sense is that "make whole" appeals more to the league.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ing-make-whole

Daly indicated they are not very flexible in the systems part of the deal. It's not take it or leave it. That's arbitration,free agency and the contract term limits. Leave the first two as is. The NHL needs contract term limits.

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10-23-2012, 03:06 PM
  #394
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Just ****ing figures.

We become Cup favorites with a great chance for the first time in 19 years, and the NHL is destroying itself.

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10-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #395
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Bill Daly indicated the NHL is willing to be flexible









http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ing-make-whole

Daly indicated they are not very flexible in the systems part of the deal. It's not take it or leave it. That's arbitration,free agency and the contract term limits. Leave the first two as is. The NHL needs contract term limits.
I tend to like Daly more than Bettman. Seems like less of a *******.

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10-23-2012, 03:16 PM
  #396
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I tend to like Daly more than Bettman. Seems like less of a *******.
I imagine it's planned that way, to be honest. He plays the good guy to Bettman's hard ass

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10-23-2012, 03:23 PM
  #397
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I do not think that the NHLPA has lost any ground in the PR battle. Most of the public sides with them. Heck, on ESPN radio and WFAN, two people that I would have never thougth of, talked about it. Kay said that Bettman attempted to put pressure on the players by making the proposal so public. Then he said that Fehr outsmarted him and put the pressure back on him

Franseca, over the weekend, called teh lockout " a pure money grab by the owners".

No, I do think that the PR is on the side of the owners. Not one writer can answer why you would hand out such contracts and then days latter, demand that they be diminished. Last time, it was about changing the system to get a cap. This time, it is about the owners wanting more money and trying to squeeze it out of the players.
Do you read TSN at all? I'd say sentiment is about 90/10 in the owners favor at the moment. Various players coming out and stating that they'd stay in Russia and that they hope the whole season is canned isn't helping.

Not that it matters at all.

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Old
10-23-2012, 03:31 PM
  #398
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The more and more I read about the **** going on within the league, the more I am leanings towards not giving the NHL another cent for anything. And I am one of the people who was willing to return to MSG after the lockout ends.

This whole thing has literally become a joke.

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10-23-2012, 03:37 PM
  #399
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Personally, If you ask me...I'm interested in earning dollars. I'm always happy to let others win respect.
What if you are losing both? 1.6b dollars AND respect? where's the motivation to agree?

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10-23-2012, 03:42 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by NYRangers88 View Post
The more and more I read about the **** going on within the league, the more I am leanings towards not giving the NHL another cent for anything. And I am one of the people who was willing to return to MSG after the lockout ends.

This whole thing has literally become a joke.
see... losing rangers fans hardly matters to the league when they're selling out every game regardless. never going to get enough rangers fans to leave. i mean if you stop giving them ratings on tv that hurts the advertising, but once again... ny makes enough money to not care.

losing cbj/phoenix/etc fans is going to hurt them and being that they're losing hockey those clubs are being hurt even more by the lockout. they don't have too many diehard fans as it is. losing 100 makes a big difference over there.

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