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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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10-23-2012, 04:42 PM
  #401
Dimz92
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Do you read TSN at all? I'd say sentiment is about 90/10 in the owners favor at the moment. Various players coming out and stating that they'd stay in Russia and that they hope the whole season is canned isn't helping.

Not that it matters at all.
The media is only making the situation worse, the PA and league are so worried about their image of "winning" that they don't even bother to negotiate two days before there "deadline". The media only makes this situation worse, Ovi and Kovalchuk can talk all they want, but both of them know they arent stupid enough to stay in the KHL when the NHL resumes. The sponsorships wont mean anything to them in the KHL because in fact who watches the KHL? Two games were streamed on ESPN3 and i was bored out of my mind watching that poor quality of hockey. PA and league both need to realize that this league would never recover from a second lost season, they will be both be losers if this season is lost. Bettman and Fehr both will be pushed out, only 9 owners support the lockout, Bettman only needs 8 to continue this. The owners want to play and so do the players, both Bettman and Fehr know this, but they are too busy with their bs posturing. I believe a deal will get done in the coming days and for one reason only, both sides know that they both will be losers in the end when games are officially cancelled, once games are cancelled there is no 82 game pay check and there is no 82 game revenue in take, the owners can talk about not wanting to play, but in the end of the day both of these sides know that the 3.3 billion they brought in last year won't be there if they start losing games, which in this case is the most important figure to them.

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10-23-2012, 04:45 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by AceintheSpace View Post
Just ****ing figures.

We become Cup favorites with a great chance for the first time in 19 years, and the NHL is destroying itself.
yep directly followed by the predicted end of the world. That's life as a Rangers fan for ya.

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10-23-2012, 04:47 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Dimz92 View Post
The media is only making the situation worse, the PA and league are so worried about their image of "winning" that they don't even bother to negotiate two days before there "deadline". The media only makes this situation worse, Ovi and Kovalchuk can talk all they want, but both of them know they arent stupid enough to stay in the KHL when the NHL resumes. The sponsorships wont mean anything to them in the KHL because in fact who watches the KHL? Two games were streamed on ESPN3 and i was bored out of my mind watching that poor quality of hockey. PA and league both need to realize that this league would never recover from a second lost season, they will be both be losers if this season is lost. Bettman and Fehr both will be pushed out, only 9 owners support the lockout, Bettman only needs 8 to continue this. The owners want to play and so do the players, both Bettman and Fehr know this, but they are too busy with their bs posturing. I believe a deal will get done in the coming days and for one reason only, both sides know that they both will be losers in the end when games are officially cancelled, once games are cancelled there is no 82 game pay check and there is no 82 game revenue in take, the owners can talk about not wanting to play, but in the end of the day both of these sides know that the 3.3 billion they brought in last year won't be there if they start losing games, which in this case is the most important figure to them.
I've been staying out of this circus. Where did you hear this?

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10-23-2012, 04:48 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
meh, the thing is that Americans are so obsessed with sports and competition and finding outlets from their depressing lives that they'll come back no matter how terribly the NHL treats them (or really any pro sport they're a fan of)
I'll be back, but honestly, I'm not having any trouble filling my fall evenings with another outlet thus far. So much so that I can't see re-upping with Center Ice any more. It'll be tough enough to shoehorn NYR back into my "new" schedule, nevermind 29 others teams' games.

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10-23-2012, 04:51 PM
  #405
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Well that's just stupid, since Gary Bettman doesn't own the Coyotes.
The NHL owns the Coyotes and Bettman is the NHLs mouthpiece, so in a way it would make sense for the players to call Bettman.

In any case, the NHL made a very large mistake in allowing teams to respond to players questions.

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10-23-2012, 04:52 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
see... losing rangers fans hardly matters to the league when they're selling out every game regardless. never going to get enough rangers fans to leave. i mean if you stop giving them ratings on tv that hurts the advertising, but once again... ny makes enough money to not care.
They would probably have no problem continuing to sell out games, but as for me...I'm having a hard time deciding if I would actually enjoy being a hockey fan anymore ... after what has transpired these last few weeks...

Like I said, I know I'm being a hypocrite because I said I would support the league when the lockout ends...but my mentality is changing fast after the recent ******** the league and PA have put forth.

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10-23-2012, 04:55 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
What if you are losing both? 1.6b dollars AND respect? where's the motivation to agree?
I'm not sure which side is losing 1.6 billion this year? I assume you are not using Washington accounting which talks about saving 4 trillion dollars rather than saying 400 billion per yr multiplied by 10 years because the numbers seem larger?

I know that a year off will cost the players 1.7 billion in unpaid salaries.


The owners are facing a cost in missing a season as well. They also should be weighing the cost of settling versus not playing. If the owners are making emotional decisions about winning and losing they deserve whatever fate falls upon the league. The question is how much will they lose not to play the season? My guess... Far less than the players.

Respect is for suckers.

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10-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #408
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Bill Daly indicated the NHL is willing to be flexible









http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ing-make-whole

Daly indicated they are not very flexible in the systems part of the deal. It's not take it or leave it. That's arbitration,free agency and the contract term limits. Leave the first two as is. The NHL needs contract term limits.
This is what blows my mind. They've said that the make-whole is open to negotiation! If that make-whole gets 100% funded by the league, wouldn't that be acceptable to the players? What about 90%? 80%?

NHLPA, you are not getting one of YOUR plans. It's just not happening. But the make-whole with some or all funded by the owners accomplishes your stated goals (existing contracts paid out, eventual move to 50/50) - no?

****ing engage, you *******s.

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10-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #409
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Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
No CBA talks schedule as for now but the NHL and the NHLPA did have a conversation today.

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10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
No CBA talks schedule as for now but the NHL and the NHLPA did have a conversation today.
I really think they just copy and paste the same thing every other day.

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10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
No CBA talks schedule as for now but the NHL and the NHLPA did have a conversation today.
"Hi Don! Anything change on your side?"

"No Gary. Not a millimeter. You?"

"Nope"

"OK... see ya around"

"You betcha"

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10-23-2012, 05:11 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
No CBA talks schedule as for now but the NHL and the NHLPA did have a conversation today.
I don't know if two words qualify as a conversation...

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10-23-2012, 05:14 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
The Frank Luntz crap did that for me. I hate that guy with a passion.

I don't care if they don't come back. Maybe I'll actually get decent at NHL 13. As it stands I can't even beat the computer.
Me neither... that game is hard as hell. It's impossible to play defense sometimes.

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10-23-2012, 05:14 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by twistedwrister17 View Post
I've been staying out of this circus. Where did you hear this?
Its been like this for years, Bettman needs only eight owners to start a lockout, it is not a majority decision, it was a reported in the Labor and Unions report, so if anyone thinks that every owner is pushing for this think again, Bettman has fed this agenda down the throats of the suffering franchises hes brought up, CBJ, PHX, FLA and so on as well as his partner the owner of the Boston Bruins is the head of the owner committee, he is the one that speaks for them, he pushed for the lockout and lets not forget the deals he handed before the lockout.

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10-23-2012, 05:15 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I really think they just copy and paste the same thing every other day.
That's exactly how it seems. Every tweet is "Both sides talked on phone but no formal meetings decided". They should just stop tweeting until they have some new information

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10-23-2012, 05:20 PM
  #416
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This sucks more today for a Rangers fan like me living in Tampa - seeing them 2-3 times a year - knowing they'd be playing here today if the season started on time.

Extremely disappointed this can't get over soon enough.

The deadline to play a full 82 game season is in three days, correct???

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10-23-2012, 05:21 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
This sucks more today for a Rangers fan like me living in Tampa - seeing them 2-3 times a day - knowing they'd be playing here today if the season started on time.

Extremely disappointed this can't get over soon enough.

The deadline to play a full 82 game season is in three days, correct???
Seems like a lot

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:22 PM
  #418
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Seems like a lot
A year***** my bad lol

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10-23-2012, 05:30 PM
  #419
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Talking over the phone could be just as productive as the meetings. They could actually be discussing how to make things work, also known as negotiating. They don't need sit down meetings televised by TSN for them to work on issues

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10-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #420
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But negotiating through the media has been going great for them so far.

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10-23-2012, 05:56 PM
  #421
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The bottom line is some players would like to urge the Players Association to quickly present a proposal that will engage the league and get back to the negotiating table. There is a sense of restlessness growing among certain guys and the same can probably be said among some owners. This has led to some players reaching out to Donald Fehr on their own searching for answers.
Quote:
Union Executive Donald Fehr is not going to wake up one day and decide today is the day he’s going to get a deal done. Until the players tell him to get a deal done, there won’t be NHL hockey. It would also help if the owners would be willing to negotiate, but the truth is Donald Fehr will not get a deal done until the player’s tell him to do so.
http://www.truehockey.com/articles/F...ion-Growing-01

Fehr isn't the long term PA exec director. He will help the PA find his replacement.

Bettman has been around since 1993. How many years does he have left as NHL commissioner? Whenever they get a new CBA,it will be a 5-7 year deal. Do you see Bettman being around to negotiate the next CBA? Hopefully someone else will be running the NHL at that time.

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10-23-2012, 06:06 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
This sucks more today for a Rangers fan like me living in Tampa - seeing them 2-3 times a year - knowing they'd be playing here today if the season started on time.

Extremely disappointed this can't get over soon enough.

The deadline to play a full 82 game season is in three days, correct???
Supposedly, yes -- that's what the NHL said. But I think they can still get 82 games in even if they start mid-November. Anything beginning after that would definitely be shortened.

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10-23-2012, 06:14 PM
  #423
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I don't get why each side needs a said proposal from one side, to get together and meet.

Why can't they meet, negotiate and go from there?

Oh right, because that would be something logical.

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10-23-2012, 06:45 PM
  #424
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NHLPA conference call has ended.
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...73852807159808

Did the whiny little *****es cry about being disrespected?

The car scene in Menace II Society

A-Wax telling Caine and O-Dog to shut the F up. That goes for the NHL and the NHLPA.

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10-23-2012, 06:52 PM
  #425
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This is so far from ridiculous at this point.

Both sides do not want a deal, anyone bought into the 'fluff' NHL proposal didnt do the research and see that it was nothing more then a front to gain some fan support.

WAKE UP PLAYERS and OWNERS, you are going to lose far more money then you will "gain" if you lose out on another full year. And thats not even considering the long term effects with sponsors, fans, ticket sales, etc.

Do you think NBC is going to want to negotiate (or any tv station) a deal with the NHL past the next CBA deal? Hell no, not after this mess 2 times in a row and with NBC still on the hook to pay the NHL all that money even if there isnt a single NHL game.

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