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Old
10-22-2012, 01:21 PM
  #651
Minor Boarding
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Originally Posted by LaFan1967 View Post
And yet revenue growth for the last CBA is 7.1 % per year for 7 years , NHLPA
assuming a 5% growth is reasonable.
To bad a 5% yearly revenue growth is needed-something that is hard to acheive in this economy. And the average revenue growth is skewed by the last years revenue income via Trashers relocation and the signed NBC TV deal.
And that proposal gets to the 50-50 split in year 6 of the deal (2017) and that IF the NHL operates perfectly every year with a 5% revenue growth.

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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I don't understand why there has to be any assumptions. Maybe that is a conservative firgure but what happens if revenue doesn't grow at 5% for 2 or 3 years in a row? Base the cap off revenue like it is now but create a plan for revenue sharing so the lower end teams can meet their operating cost and we will probably never be in this mess again. When people starts assuming things, this type of crap happens. Just like the owners assumed that since the cap was tied to revenues, costs would stay manageable. That worked for the haves but not the have-nots.

I think it is in both the players and owners interest to get an agreement in place that doesn't see GM's and agents exploiting loopholes and allows all teams to at least break even at the end of the year.
Agree.

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10-22-2012, 02:20 PM
  #652
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I wonder how many empty seats there will be when an if there is an NHL season. This kind of stuff really turns off some fans and pretty much drives away the casual fan for a good period of time. If this is all about revenue then damaging the sport with a lockout shouldn't be a bargaining tool.

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Old
10-22-2012, 02:49 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Link?

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean they are leaking e-mails that they received from Fehr?

Or did they hack into Fehr's e-mail account?
I heard on NHL radii network that the NHL got ahold of fehr's emails to the players and somehow the got temorarily leaked. For legal reasons they were only floating around for a short time and then got nipped in the butt. The hosts assumed the plan was to get them out long enough to be talked about.

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Old
10-22-2012, 04:15 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I wonder how many empty seats there will be when an if there is an NHL season. This kind of stuff really turns off some fans and pretty much drives away the casual fan for a good period of time. If this is all about revenue then damaging the sport with a lockout shouldn't be a bargaining tool.
Well a couple of friends are already currently doing our best to avoid spending any money on the NHL or companies that support the NHL (harder than you'd think in todays corporate centric society,) and will continue to do such for as long as the lockout lasts. Once hockey comes back we'll continue to do this for an equal amount of time as the lockout lasted. So there's that.

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Old
10-22-2012, 04:55 PM
  #655
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I heard on NHL radii network that the NHL got ahold of fehr's emails to the players and somehow the got temorarily leaked. For legal reasons they were only floating around for a short time and then got nipped in the butt. The hosts assumed the plan was to get them out long enough to be talked about.
It's much more likely that one of the hundreds of players that received the memo is tired of this crap and leaked it to the press. I highly doubt the NHL just magically got a hold of a memo not meant for them and then against all legal advice decided to leak it to the press. Unless Fehr accidentally hit "reply all" and CC'd all the NHL owners his master plan.

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Old
10-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by EmperorPenguin View Post
It's much more likely that one of the hundreds of players that received the memo is tired of this crap and leaked it to the press. I highly doubt the NHL just magically got a hold of a memo not meant for them and then against all legal advice decided to leak it to the press. Unless Fehr accidentally hit "reply all" and CC'd all the NHL owners his master plan.

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Old
10-22-2012, 07:25 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Master Yoda View Post
Okay, I'm a loser and I flip burgers for a living and I suck at it too.

Do winners never feel satisfied with their jobs? Do winners always have to want more money?

In the "real" world, millions of Americans who lost their jobs, plenty of whom were really good at what they did, would love to be "just happy to be" where I am right now, with a good job. But then again, that doesn't mean I don't want to earn more money. I just don't go on twitter to cry about it.
Totally agree with you there. One of the biggest reasons it's easy to side against the players is that they won't shut up about it. I'm sure that every time a player opens his mouth Fehr and Fehr roll over in their combined grave.

I mean really, Alex Ovechkin: Hockey superstar, playboy, philanthropist, amateur physicist, and economist. Please tell us more about your thoughts on the state of the economics of the game... On second though, just shut the **** up and play hockey, tool.

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Old
10-22-2012, 08:53 PM
  #658
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http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...Rx5p36FawOdh7K

Quote from Nov of last year

Quote:
* A high-ranking executive of one of the league’s most successful clubs on and off ice matter-of-factly told Slap Shots during the course of a conversation about something else entirely this week that the players, “will get 48 to 50 percent, and there will be a rollback” in the next CBA as if it is a fait accompli and Fehr doesn’t exist


Very interesting...

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Old
10-23-2012, 03:07 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...Rx5p36FawOdh7K

Quote from Nov of last year


Very interesting...
You should have written the source. Its LARRY BROOKS so I wouldn't have to open that junk.


Last edited by Minor Boarding: 10-23-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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Old
10-23-2012, 04:07 AM
  #660
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Kopitar interview:

http://www.svt.se/sport/ishockey/anz...-stanna-i-mora

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:29 AM
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...Rx5p36FawOdh7K

Quote from Nov of last year





Very interesting...
Why budge if you're an owner, why budge if you're a player? The breaking point for the NHLPA will be when players go public that they had to file for bankruptcy. I'm sure there is some sort of loan system in place to make sure this doesn't happen because it will be a PR nightmare for the NHLPA. The owners have the big money, they have the education, they have the background in business dealings, they can afford to sit out another season and the fans will eventually come back, no big deal. The fans still hold the power here, if you're not happy stop spending money on the NHL. I like what tigermask48 suggested, full boycott of spending on anything NHL equaling every day the players were locked out. Tough to battle over revenue when there is none.

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Old
10-23-2012, 11:06 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Why budge if you're an owner, why budge if you're a player? The breaking point for the NHLPA will be when players go public that they had to file for bankruptcy. I'm sure there is some sort of loan system in place to make sure this doesn't happen because it will be a PR nightmare for the NHLPA. The owners have the big money, they have the education, they have the background in business dealings, they can afford to sit out another season and the fans will eventually come back, no big deal. The fans still hold the power here, if you're not happy stop spending money on the NHL. I like what tigermask48 suggested, full boycott of spending on anything NHL equaling every day the players were locked out. Tough to battle over revenue when there is none.
That is been my beef with the players all along. They holding out for a larger share of what very well could be a reduced renenue stream when you compound a potential fan backlash AND another downturn in the economy. All the while forfeiting their current salary. You can tell which side of the house understands finances and which doesn't.

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:07 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
That is been my beef with the players all along. They holding out for a larger share of what very well could be a reduced renenue stream when you compound a potential fan backlash AND another downturn in the economy. All the while forfeiting their current salary. You can tell which side of the house understands finances and which doesn't.
Hey, as long as Fehr's legacy as a tough negotiator and destroyer of professional sports leagues remains intact, what does that matter?

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Old
10-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #664
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Hey, as long as Fehr's legacy as a tough negotiator and destroyer of professional sports leagues remains intact, what does that matter?
To be fair, Bettman has just as big of an ego and is not helping the process any. The hiring of Fehr was a bad move on the PA's part. I wish I could fast forward to the end of this thing to see how it all shakes out and how the players end up. I just don't see how they end up "winning" this whole thing. I don't know if the 82 game window as closed but once that comes and goes, the players are in the red that they'll likely never recoup.

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Old
10-23-2012, 01:20 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Hey, as long as Fehr's legacy as a tough negotiator and destroyer of professional sports leagues remains intact, what does that matter?
Yep. MLB has been absolutely decimated by Fehr.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.p...news&Itemid=42

Quote:
MLB Revenues Grown From $1.4 Billion in 1995 to $7 Billion in 2010 -

Based on financial information provided by Major League Baseball, gross revenues have grown from $1.4 billion in 1995 to $7 billion in 2010, or a 400% increase. When accounting for inflation, the league still sees phenomenal growth at a 254% increas

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10-23-2012, 04:03 PM
  #666
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Yep. MLB has been absolutely decimated by Fehr.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.p...news&Itemid=42
Hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story...

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10-23-2012, 04:11 PM
  #667
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And let's not forget the historical impact this will have on the game. Some players will be losing 2 prime years of their careers-they won't get those stats back nor will they ever be able to generate that type of income EVER. These potential 2 seasons wiped out could effect HOF voting since the stats won't be as impressive as they probably would have been. This could be the end for players like Selanne and Jagr as well, if Teemu were to miss 2 full seasons of hockey due to lockouts you have to wonder where his numbers might have finished.

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Yep. MLB has been absolutely decimated by Fehr.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.p...news&Itemid=42
And that would make 2012 player salaries below 42% of MLB revenue. That is why baseball has had labor peace for so long. If the NHLPA's percentage was that low, the NHL would have a CBA done in no time. Does anyone believe that there wouldn't be a lockout or strike if the MLBPA asked for 50% of the revenue? How about 57%?

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team

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10-23-2012, 04:31 PM
  #669
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And that would make 2012 player salaries below 42% of MLB revenue. That is why baseball has had labor peace for so long. If the NHLPA's percentage was that low, the NHL would have a CBA done in no time. Does anyone believe that there wouldn't be a lockout or strike if the MLBPA asked for 50% of the revenue? How about 57%?

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team
Hey, that's great! Now convince the owners to get rid of the salary cap and we're all set.

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10-23-2012, 04:49 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Hey, that's great! Now convince the owners to get rid of the salary cap and we're all set.
Or try and convince the NHL owners that they can be a $7 billion industry. No way will the owners get away from a cap because they are never going to be as big as the NFL/NBA/MLB in the US.

It just seems silly that the players are willing to lose real money and hurt future HRR over a possible $550 million loss over 6 years. If the league continues to grow as fast as the NHLPA thinks, they will be making even more money in a couple of years.

Instead they want to "win" the negotiations. The owners will happily pay 57% of $0 this season. Then propose the same deal that they just offered last week.

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10-23-2012, 04:57 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
And that would make 2012 player salaries below 42% of MLB revenue. That is why baseball has had labor peace for so long. l]
That is the lowest estimate I have ever seen for MLB. I have seen 54.5%, 51%, 52%, and 50%

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10-23-2012, 05:28 PM
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
That is the lowest estimate I have ever seen for MLB. I have seen 54.5%, 51%, 52%, and 50%
Well, MLB salaries were just under $3 billion for 2012 and estimates are that MLB was making $7 billion in 2010. Unless MLB had some revenue decreases the past 2 seasons, I don't see how $3 billion is 50% of $7+ billion.

Unless BRR is much lower than $7 billion.

I found this about 2010 where the salary was 46.4% of revenue:


http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives...ge-not-really/

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10-23-2012, 05:57 PM
  #673
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Anyone in the Dallas area going to try and watch Crosby?

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/10...enter-practice

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Old
10-23-2012, 06:20 PM
  #674
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Well, MLB salaries were just under $3 billion for 2012 and estimates are that MLB was making $7 billion in 2010. Unless MLB had some revenue decreases the past 2 seasons, I don't see how $3 billion is 50% of $7+ billion.

Unless BRR is much lower than $7 billion.

I found this about 2010 where the salary was 46.4% of revenue:


http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives...ge-not-really/
This also supports that...

http://blog.chron.com/unofficialscor...nt-of-revenue/

not sure if that is an apples to apples comparison in terms of revenues etc.

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Old
10-23-2012, 06:34 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Or try and convince the NHL owners that they can be a $7 billion industry. No way will the owners get away from a cap because they are never going to be as big as the NFL/NBA/MLB in the US.

It just seems silly that the players are willing to lose real money and hurt future HRR over a possible $550 million loss over 6 years. If the league continues to grow as fast as the NHLPA thinks, they will be making even more money in a couple of years.

Instead they want to "win" the negotiations. The owners will happily pay 57% of $0 this season. Then propose the same deal that they just offered last week.

I think your missing the real point here. It is not just a $550 million dollar loss over the next 6 years the players are fighting against. It is this idea that during every work stoppage, the players should continue to give a little bit more, and then at the next stoppage give a little bit more, and then a little bit more. The players already gave in to a salary cap and a 25% rollback in salary during the last lockout. Now the NHL wants them to give up another 7% reduction in yearly revenue, along with 12-13% in salary for the upcoming year. The players are willing to give up some monetary concessions, without the need for any real benefit. And at this point in time the players are going to eventually accept a deal that provides real concessions to the owners. But they cannot make a deal that leads to the owners believing that once a decade they can bait further and further concessions during another round of "negotiations." That is not a partnership. That is a dictatorship, and this is not going to get resolved until the owners collectively decide to offer a fair proposal which takes into account just how healthy the NHL was before the lockout began. This is not 7 years ago, the NHL is in a MUCH different place, and the players should not be forced to make such a one-sided agreement.

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