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The Luongo Thread [Mod Warning in OP]

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:37 PM
  #976
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What if the deal ends up being straight up Luongo for a first? Who would be upset at that between Toronto fans and Vancouver fans?

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10-23-2012, 04:39 PM
  #977
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You are the most level headed leaf fan in this thread and its apreciated. What do you think of these?

Bozak, Colbourne, 1st for Luongo

Or

Kulemin, Colbourne, 1st for Luongo

Or

Lombardi, Colbourne, Kadri, 1st for Luongo, Raymond
Burke will not trade our 1st for Luongo (MAYBE if its top ten protected). It wont happen. He gets raked over the coals over Kessel still and Kessel is performing great.

It is not a given that Lu gets us to the playoff. Not at all. That 1st has a good chance at being top 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
What if the deal ends up being straight up Luongo for a first? Who would be upset at that between Toronto fans and Vancouver fans?
Me

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #978
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Won't happen. If it did happen we'd certainly have the short end of the stick.

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10-23-2012, 04:42 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
What if the deal ends up being straight up Luongo for a first? Who would be upset at that between Toronto fans and Vancouver fans?
Everyone.

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:46 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Burke will not trade our 1st for Luongo (MAYBE if its top ten protected). It wont happen. He gets raked over the coals over Kessel still and Kessel is performing great.

It is not a given that Lu gets us to the playoff. Not at all. That 1st has a good chance at being top 10.



Me
What happened to "Burke has balls and doesn't give 2 cents what people say?"

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10-23-2012, 04:48 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Everyone.
I'll take Roberto Luongo trade rumours for $100 Alex.
Alex: The answer is: Toronto's first overall pick.
Question: What asset to be traded for Luongo would piss off both Vancouver and Toronto fans?

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:49 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Burke will not trade our 1st for Luongo (MAYBE if its top ten protected). It wont happen. He gets raked over the coals over Kessel still and Kessel is performing great.

It is not a given that Lu gets us to the playoff. Not at all. That 1st has a good chance at being top 10.



Me
He won't not trade the 1st because of fan perception. He won't trade it because it's over paying.

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:49 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The arguments will be made differently, but they will be much the same. Lu's contract is a consideration for T.O., so is the goaltending market, the Canucks needs, Toronto's needs etc. I'm not talking about the petty stuff.

it's not about the petty stuff.

How much pressure is TO ownership putting on Burke to get to the playoffs asap? Does he have any pressure for this? How much room does Burke really have before he could be fired? Is Burke under pressure to ignore the long-term at this point and try and build a winning team asap? Or has TO ownership talked to him about job security for another 3-4 years and stick with a steady rebuild?

What's happening behind the scenes in Vancouver? Is Aquillini okay with carrying Luongo's contract as a backup? How much pressure is he putting on Gillis to move him? Or is there a stronger relationship there between Luongo and Aquillini and he's putting pressure on Gillis to move Schneider instead?

These are just some of the things that we as fans have no clue about. Whatever ownership is saying publicly doesn't mean much either. There are always pressures behind the scenes that fans are completely oblivious to. And because of that, we can't possibly know the value of such assets in a trade because we don't know how much either side is willing to cave to get it done.

And then you add in the whole CBA fiasco and the waters are even muddier.

It's great that fans can come here and have discussions on all this, but if you think that any discussions here will show what could happen in reality, you're fooling yourself. We simply don't have enough of the facts, intentions or pressures from either side to know that.

Sure, all things being equal, in a perfect world, blah blah blah... in reality such perfect worlds don't exist. There is simply way too little information given to fans - and way too much ignored by fans - when it comes to a deal of this magnitude to think that we know where the real value may be.

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:53 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
The first kills the deal in every case. None of these deals work for Toronto, as we cannot afford to give up the number of C's listed.
Ok no 1st. How bout this instead

Bozak, Colbourne, Kadri, 2nd for Luongo

Or

Kulemin, Colbourne, Kadri, 2nd for Luongo

Or

Lombardi, Frattin, Colbourne, Kadri, 2nd for Luongo, Raymond

And none of these centres are projected to be a need for you that being a #1C. At least with a good goalie maybe you attract some UFA to fill this need.

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10-23-2012, 04:54 PM
  #985
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Thank you for the constructive feedback.
You too

......

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10-23-2012, 04:55 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
A fair deal would be:

One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
Franson or Ashton

For Luongo.

Canucks need a 3c, Bozak or Connolly is a better option then Schroeder
Colborne is a nice prospect or 2nd if preferred.
Mac or Frattin can fill out 2nd or 3rd line.

Gives Canucks much needed depth and probably puts the Leafs in the playoffs. The spot vacated by Frattin or Mac will be filled by Kadri. Who ever is left of Bozak or Connolly will center the top line.
Ashton, Franson and Colborne are good pieces but we will be fine with the excess of bottom 6 prospects we have and d-men.
Bump, thoughts?

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10-23-2012, 04:58 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Bump, thoughts?
Check out my post above, related to some of your thoughts.

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Bump, thoughts?
If I had to pick a package based on that, Bozak, Frattin, Colborne, Ashton. Which isn't too bad value, but IMO at least 1, maybe 2 pieces should have a high upside, a la Kadri/Finn/1st.

Colborne could count, but is too much of a risk by himself.

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10-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What happened to "Burke has balls and doesn't give 2 cents what people say?"
My focus is more on Lu not guaranteeing us playoffs then fans perception of Burke, although I admit I didnt phrase it as well as I should.

Imcomplete thoughts FTL, lol

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10-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
A fair deal would be:
One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
Franson or Ashton
The overall value of the package is too little.

Try that package for Hiller? ANA needs some depth players

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
My focus is more on Lu not guaranteeing us playoffs then fans perception of Burke, although I admit I didnt phrase it as well as I should.

Imcomplete thoughts FTL, lol
Imo Luongo does make ypu a playoff team, which is why I have no problem making the 1st playoff conditional.

Also because I don't really want to want the Leafs to fail.

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10-23-2012, 05:12 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
A fair deal would be:

One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
Franson or Ashton

For Luongo.

Canucks need a 3c, Bozak or Connolly is a better option then Schroeder
Colborne is a nice prospect or 2nd if preferred.
Mac or Frattin can fill out 2nd or 3rd line.

Gives Canucks much needed depth and probably puts the Leafs in the playoffs. The spot vacated by Frattin or Mac will be filled by Kadri. Who ever is left of Bozak or Connolly will center the top line.
Ashton, Franson and Colborne are good pieces but we will be fine with the excess of bottom 6 prospects we have and d-men.
If I'm Gillis, I take that package for Luongo. fills 2 roster spots (and makes Raymond expendable in a trade), adds 2 quality prospects to a weak pool, and it could clear over $4mill from the Canucks cap.

Fill current needs, adds to pipeline, clears cap... I've got no problems with a trade like that as a Canuck fan.

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10-23-2012, 05:12 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
Sure, all things being equal, in a perfect world, blah blah blah... in reality such perfect worlds don't exist. There is simply way too little information given to fans - and way too much ignored by fans - when it comes to a deal of this magnitude to think that we know where the real value may be.
Of course there is a lot we don't know. What I'm saying is, this ongoing discussion has given me as much information as I could get, from both sides. In that way I think it has been worthwhile. I don't think I know the real value, I'm just looking to make the most educated guess possible. There is no NHL to watch, WTF else am I gonna do?

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10-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
If I'm Gillis, I take that package for Luongo. fills 2 roster spots (and makes Raymond expendable in a trade), adds 2 quality prospects to a weak pool, and it could clear over $4mill from the Canucks cap.

Fill current needs, adds to pipeline, clears cap... I've got no problems with a trade like that as a Canuck fan.
What do you think of Frattin?

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:15 PM
  #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
If I'm Gillis, I take that package for Luongo. fills 2 roster spots (and makes Raymond expendable in a trade), adds 2 quality prospects to a weak pool, and it could clear over $4mill from the Canucks cap.

Fill current needs, adds to pipeline, clears cap... I've got no problems with a trade like that as a Canuck fan.
Swap Ashton with Finn and I'd do it. We'd have no need for Ashton.

We need good defensive prospects, imo. Even our best prospect, Connauton, is no safe bet to make the NHL

EDIT: Makes more sense for TO too, as they have plenty of depth at left D, and need some sandpaper in their forward group.

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10-23-2012, 05:36 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Swap Ashton with Finn and I'd do it. We'd have no need for Ashton.

We need good defensive prospects, imo. Even our best prospect, Connauton, is no safe bet to make the NHL

EDIT: Makes more sense for TO too, as they have plenty of depth at left D, and need some sandpaper in their forward group.
sure, if you can get Finn instead, great. But I wouldn't reject this deal if swapping Finn for Ashton is a deal breaker... otherwise we're just going around in circles for something where the difference in value ultimately doesn't amount to a whole lot.

Finn is probably a better target for our needs, but Ashton is still a good prospect and would give the Canucks another young call-up option (which he is ready for) on a ELC that has the potential to develop into an everyday contributing player.

Bottom line for me, if the Canucks can fill a couple of depth holes, add to a pretty shallow prospects pool, and trim a whole lot of cap space all at once (once you remove Luongo and Raymond, and plug in these cheaper depth players you create well over $5mill in cap space alone), it's a solid deal for Luongo.

Such a deal also would allow the Canucks to move Raymond for a pick to add to their prospects cupboard further, or move another prospect (or package him with Raymond) to add a defensive prospect. Any of Colborne, Ashton, Schroeder, Rodin, etc become easier to trade with the added depth up front.

Quote:
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What do you think of Frattin?
Decent player who's NHL ready now at 24. He's basically there to add depth, and could end up being better than expected. But with Burrow, Kassian and Hansen on the right side, his job will be to outplay Weise in a 4th line role, and provide competition for Kassian and Hansen to play to their potential.

Basically a decent depth pickup for the team with some upside. From what I've seen he plays a decent 2-way game and plays with some grit, which fits what our bottom-6 needs, while bringing more talent and upside than a guy like Weise.

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10-23-2012, 05:38 PM
  #997
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
sure, if you can get Finn instead, great. But I wouldn't reject this deal if swapping Finn for Ashton is a deal breaker... otherwise we're just going around in circles for something where the difference in value ultimately doesn't amount to a whole lot.

Finn is probably a better target for our needs, but Ashton is still a good prospect and would give the Canucks another young call-up option (which he is ready for) on a ELC that has the potential to develop into an everyday contributing player.

Bottom line for me, if the Canucks can fill a couple of depth holes, add to a pretty shallow prospects pool, and trim a whole lot of cap space all at once (once you remove Luongo and Raymond, and plug in these cheaper depth players you create well over $5mill in cap space alone), it's a solid deal for Luongo.

Such a deal also would allow the Canucks to move Raymond for a pick to add to their prospects cupboard further, or move another prospect (or package him with Raymond) to add a defensive prospect. Any of Colborne, Ashton, Schroeder, Rodin, etc become easier to trade with the added depth up front.



Decent player who's NHL ready now at 24. He's basically there to add depth, and could end up being better than expected. But with Burrow, Kassian and Hansen on the right side, his job will be to outplay Weise in a 4th line role, and provide competition for Kassian and Hansen to play to their potential.

Basically a decent depth pickup for the team with some upside. From what I've seen he plays a decent 2-way game and plays with some grit, which fits what our bottom-6 needs, while bringing more talent and upside than a guy like Weise.
So what package are you exactly suggesting?

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #998
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So what package are you exactly suggesting?
Bozak, Frattin, Finn(Ashton), Colborne.

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10-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #999
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We could have a long year lockout.

if it happen, Thomas, Theodore, Howard, Khabibulin, Backstrom, Nabokov, Smith could become UFA.

So it would gave teams interesting alternative option to trade a fortune in asset to acquire Luongo.

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10-23-2012, 05:51 PM
  #1000
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So what package are you exactly suggesting?
not a package I suggested, but one I agreed on suggested by a Leafs fan.

Bozak, Frattin, Colborne, Ashton.

quick update in capgeek to plug in replacement parts, shows the Canucks could cut their cap number by over $5mill after that trade.

I'm not expecting a homerun deal for Luongo (top pick, Gardiner, etc)... I'm happy with a deal that gets us some decent pieces that can help now and in the future, and give us much more cap flexibility at the same time.

If that's the trade that goes down, I'm happy as a Canuck fan (though I know not all Canucks fans will think that's enough... while many Leafs fans will say it's way too much).

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