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Old
10-23-2012, 09:00 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I admit, I just thought Chan was short for Chandler. So i've always called him that, sorry for the confusion.
It is short for Chandler, his middle name.

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10-23-2012, 09:45 AM
  #27
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Sorry for the triple post / lack of multi-quote.

But I must revisit & expound my opinion from yesterday.

Namely, that defensive talent is a higher priority to acquire than an upgrade to Fitz with a #1 pick. (I will grant that if a "sure thing" NFL HOF QB is available, then take him, but I don't think the Bills will draft that low. I don't know the quality / depth of the 2013 draft - but AFAIK, there's no P. Manning or Brees available.)

My point is four-fold:
1. Sure, Fitzpatrick can be upgraded. But even with his "masterful suckiness", the Bills offense is middle-of-the-league in YPG, and, is in fact close-enough to several of the top-6 AFC offenses in YPG to be statistically similar to AFC playoff teams. (I know it helps my argument that the NFC is much stronger than the AFC for that comparison.) Moreover, Bills offensive TOP average through 7 wks is between 29 & 30 minutes, not abysmal by any means.

2. I am no Fitz apologist, but feel the Bills offense (O-line, skill players, & Fitz) is a better package than the Rob Johnson and/or JP Losman, etc., led-squads. They are not that bad.

3. However, the Bills defense is near-bottom of the league in points and yards allowed. Bills need to give up 100 less yards per game in order to be playoff caliber. (That equates to about 10-13 ppg, which seems right - if they gave up 70 fewer points this season, they'd be middle-of-the-league, 100 fewer points would be playoff caliber). Bills give up more yards and points than defenses which average (much) more time on the field.

4. The QB doesn't play defense. I've shown from the offensive TOP and offensive PPG stats above, compared to the league, that a marginal improvement in those stats isn't going to increase the Bills playoff chances if the defense isn't fixed. Is there a cogent argument that a change in defensive scheme with the current personnel would be responsible for 100 fewer ypg allowed and 10-13 ppg allowed by the defense? Can that be accomplished by defensive scheme (alone) that easily?

====
Side note, different topic - It's been brought up before, but Buddy Nix and Torell Troup should be made to eat breakfast together daily, by pouring each other a bowl of Wheaties from a box with Rob Gronkowski on the cover.

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10-23-2012, 10:24 AM
  #28
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Sanchez sucks, he's had some weapons in past seasons and has disappointed. I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team. Ponder, Weeden, Locker, Gabbert and even Freeman are all pretty mediocre options imo. Not to say I wouldn't want take one to at least have a young qb in the mix. Agreed on Stafford though he's legit and will be a good qb for a long time.
Looking at that list It's really a mixed bag. Ryan, Stafford, Luck, and Rg3 All look like franchise qb's. Guys like Bradford, Flacco, and Newton will probably be above average starters in their careers(although Flacco is slipping a bit in my eyes and I've never been high on Newton). Of the rest, most just don't have a large enough of a sample size to make a permanent judgement on yet, although most seem pretty blah to me (probably because most were the leftover qb's drafted later in the 1st after the elite talent was already taken). So in summary I'd say I'd lean heavily towards using that first pick on a qb. If it looks unlikely that one of the top qb's will make it to us they need to get aggressive like the redskins did this year. It's the most important position in football and we've disregarded it year in and year out or taken the leftovers in the draft like Losman or Edwards.
Yep. And there's no telling that some of those mixed bag QBs would make a big difference, even if they are an upgrade--maybe they get 1 or 2 more wins than Fitz...but it wouldn't make us contenders.

I say this: figure out which QBs you think will be top franchise guys, trade up for them (or hope one falls to you). Don't just draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB...if the pick comes around and none of those guys look to be the elite level, look elsewhere. Plenty of holes to be filled.

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10-23-2012, 11:10 AM
  #29
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I'm not saying Sanchez is an amazing QB or anything... I'm saying if the Jets offer him one for one for Fitz I'd take it.

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10-23-2012, 11:31 AM
  #30
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Chan said there will be no coaching changes until the end of the season. So unless he gets canned, too, we are going to be watching this pathetic defense for the next 9 weeks.

Edit: Not saying they wouldn't be pathetic with a new defensive cordinator.


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10-23-2012, 11:39 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Chan said there will be no coaching changes until the end of the season. So unless he gets canned, too, we are going to be watching this pathetic defense for the next 9 weeks.
I'll pray for the miracle that Wannstedt understands what is wrong.


Problem is I really like Gailey as an OC..... not head coach.

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10-23-2012, 12:07 PM
  #32
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Yep. And there's no telling that some of those mixed bag QBs would make a big difference, even if they are an upgrade--maybe they get 1 or 2 more wins than Fitz...but it wouldn't make us contenders.

I say this: figure out which QBs you think will be top franchise guys, trade up for them (or hope one falls to you). Don't just draft a QB for the sake of drafting a QB...if the pick comes around and none of those guys look to be the elite level, look elsewhere. Plenty of holes to be filled.
Very well put. I'm all for BPA in this coming draft if they don't think there is a franchise qb in this class worth trading up for. Someone mentioned Manti Te'o earlier and I think that would be a fantastic pick. The bottom line is this team needs more elite talent whether it be at QB or LB or several other positions

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10-23-2012, 02:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
My favorite part of the article:



......

I guess talking to the team that would be your anchor tenant isn't all THAT important.

There's also that little assumption of NYS kicking in $400M. From where?
NYS has cash, it's just what are those blockheads who get our taxes yearly and such do with it? Government takes it for themselves!

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10-23-2012, 03:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vick is a UFA this off-season.I would sign him in an instant.Yes he will be 33 and has regressed, but he is still much better then Fitzpatrick.Fitz is straight garbage, I hope we sign Vick on a 2 year deal as a stopgap and use our 1st round pick (which hopefully will be top 5) on the best available QB.Hell, I'd trade up for Geno Smith if need be.Have Vick start year 1, if he struggles and you think Geno is ready, then put him in.If Vick plays good and we are winning, then you give Smith the year to develop and give him the reins next season and have Vick as the backup.

All of this is moot point if Chan Gailey,Dave Wannstedt,Buddy Nix and Ryan Fitzpatrick are still employed for the Bills.Or if our new coach, who will probably be some mediocre retread, will probably keep FJ as the #1 back and give Spiller 30% of the carries, when it should be the other way around.Looking at how brutal our team is, we need to spend our 1st on a QB, and a 2nd on the best available WR or LB.Our OL is very good and young.We don't need any OL draft picks.And with the hundred+ million spent and invested on the DL, there should be 0 DT or DE's drafted.Secondary is pretty bad, but with all the 1st/2nd round picks spent there recently (Byrd,Gilmore,Williams,Mckelvin) there should not be any players in the secondary drafted before round 6-7.We need to stock up on WR and LBs after getting our franchise QB.Finally getting a top end TE would be great, we haven't had a good TE since Reimersma and he wasn't even that good.It's too bad I have lost all hope in this team drafting/winning games that it's almost impossible for me to get excited.
Vick is an accident waiting to happen, as are guys like an RGIII but Vick inparticular has taken a physical beating. His stats this year are anything but good. Two years ago he was lighting it up on his return, I think he caught people off guard because in his ATL days he was purely a runner who couldn't throw for ****. I think the book got out on him. This year he is throwing picks, struggling to hang on to the ball and such.

They should trade up for Barkley, give up some nice piece, this team isn't contending for a couple years, so get rid of some talent for that franchise QB. I wouldn't be upset to see Johnson or Jones go.

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10-23-2012, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
NYS has cash, it's just what are those blockheads who get our taxes yearly and such do with it? Government takes it for themselves!
New York State paid for half of the Yankees and Mets stadiums. It's our turn.

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10-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
NYS has cash, it's just what are those blockheads who get our taxes yearly and such do with it? Government takes it for themselves!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
New York State paid for half of the Yankees and Mets stadiums. It's our turn.
New York State did not pay half of either stadium.

New York City came up with a convoluted bonding scheme for both the Mets and Yankees to borrow the money to build the stadiums in a very tax advantaged way. New York State's contributions were mostly infrastructure improvements, and some tax advantages.

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10-23-2012, 04:44 PM
  #37
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New York State paid for half of the Yankees and Mets stadiums. It's our turn.
Like the state actually takes Buffalo into consideration for anything.

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10-23-2012, 04:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
New York State did not pay half of either stadium.

New York City came up with a convoluted bonding scheme for both the Mets and Yankees to borrow the money to build the stadiums in a very tax advantaged way. New York State's contributions were mostly infrastructure improvements, and some tax advantages.
I thought the Yankees asked NY State for $300 Million?

The Mets I never heard a thing about.

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10-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #39
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Like the state actually takes Buffalo into consideration for anything.
They don't, but they should. Upstate NY basically carries NYC's *** afloat.

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10-23-2012, 05:10 PM
  #40
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I don't foresee Cuomo signing off on this. Within the last 24 hours its been all over the local news that he won't be helping any local governments with their budgets within the state.

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10-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I don't foresee Cuomo signing off on this. Within the last 24 hours its been all over the local news that he won't be helping any local governments with their budgets within the state.
Well, something like the funding of a stadium isn't budget related.

I think it would look pretty poorly on him seeing as how he's publicly backed stadium construction for the NYC teams and also publicly backed the Bills staying in Buffalo.

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10-23-2012, 06:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
New York State did not pay half of either stadium.

New York City came up with a convoluted bonding scheme for both the Mets and Yankees to borrow the money to build the stadiums in a very tax advantaged way. New York State's contributions were mostly infrastructure improvements, and some tax advantages.
You're right. I misread. The state paid $390 million. Still a lot of money.

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10-23-2012, 07:06 PM
  #43
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Just so everyone knows: These are currently the top 11 QBs for the 2013 draft (not my rankings)

1. Matt Barkley, USC
2. Geno Smith, West Virginia
3. Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
4. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
5. Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
6. Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
7. E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
8. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
9. Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
10. Logan Thomas*, Virginia Tech
11. Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma

*Juniors

Expect Barkley and Smith to be like Luck and RG3.... who do you take a shot on and where?

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10-23-2012, 07:08 PM
  #44
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Landry Jones would be a nice low-risk pick on day 3.

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10-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Just so everyone knows: These are currently the top 11 QBs for the 2013 draft (not my rankings)

1. Matt Barkley, USC
2. Geno Smith, West Virginia
3. Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
4. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
5. Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
6. Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
7. E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
8. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
9. Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
10. Logan Thomas*, Virginia Tech
11. Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma

*Juniors

Expect Barkley and Smith to be like Luck and RG3.... who do you take a shot on and where?
If you mean they'll be like Luck and RG3 in that they'll be the first two QBs taken, then yes. But comparison's end there. Neither Barkley or Smith are that caliber prospect. I like the depth this year, but I don't see a guy that's on the "move up at all costs" type of guy.

My personal list is very close to that.

1. Geno Smith
2. Matt Barkley
3. Tyler Wilson
4. Tyler Bray
5. EJ Manuel
6. Aaron Murray
7. Collin Klein
8. Mike Glennon
9. Tajh Boyd
10. Logan Thomas

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10-23-2012, 09:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Just so everyone knows: These are currently the top 11 QBs for the 2013 draft (not my rankings)

1. Matt Barkley, USC
2. Geno Smith, West Virginia
3. Tyler Bray*, QB, Tennessee
4. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
5. Tajh Boyd*, QB, Clemson
6. Aaron Murray*, QB, Georgia
7. E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
8. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse
9. Mike Glennon, QB, N.C. State
10. Logan Thomas*, Virginia Tech
11. Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma

*Juniors

Expect Barkley and Smith to be like Luck and RG3.... who do you take a shot on and where?
Who ranked this???

Wilson I was high on, then he got hurt twice.

Bray needs his senior year.

Aaron Murray the same.

Boyd is ready, not sure about Thomas.

Boy Jones has slipped, people were somewhat high on him last year.

Nassib looks like another Fitzpatrick type, couple that with Cuse is a glorified trainwreck.

Glennon looks terrible, then I saw his 2nd half against Florida State. But I still don't think he will be anything good, a backup like guy.

Manuel is intriguing, hes the african american athletic kid but he can throw the ball too. He seems like a more traditional QB than Geno.

Geno is the most overrated one here.

The guy I am shocked thats getting no love is Klein but if I think about it i'm not certain he can be a good NFL QB. Hes very athletic and has no fear in his running style but his pass TD's are way down. Hes not built like TeBow. His speed is lacking IMO but man is he effective.

Barkley for USC Standards may be the real deal for the first time since Palmer. Most USC guys scare me going pro. They already play in a pro offense, etc. Most TD passes in USC History.

My Top 3 from that list are:

Barkley
Boyd
Jones


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10-23-2012, 09:33 PM
  #47
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If you mean they'll be like Luck and RG3 in that they'll be the first two QBs taken, then yes. But comparison's end there. Neither Barkley or Smith are that caliber prospect. I like the depth this year, but I don't see a guy that's on the "move up at all costs" type of guy.

My personal list is very close to that.

1. Geno Smith
2. Matt Barkley
3. Tyler Wilson
4. Tyler Bray
5. EJ Manuel
6. Aaron Murray
7. Collin Klein
8. Mike Glennon
9. Tajh Boyd
10. Logan Thomas
I'd say Geno Smith and Matt Barkley are similar to RG3 and Luck in that they are clearly the top 2 qb's in their class and are a tier above the other QB's. I'd move up in the draft to grab either one of them.

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10-23-2012, 09:42 PM
  #48
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As far as the stadium goes, I don't think it's too bad. Spend a couple of million and renovate it in the off season. Where the hell is Buffalo going to get $1.4 billion from anyway?

Also, why is the stadium named after Ralph Wilson? Why doesn't Erie county sell the naming rights?

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10-23-2012, 09:55 PM
  #49
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ce=twitterfeed

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10-23-2012, 09:57 PM
  #50
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As far as the stadium goes, I don't think it's too bad. Spend a couple of million and renovate it in the off season. Where the hell is Buffalo going to get $1.4 billion from anyway?

Also, why is the stadium named after Ralph Wilson? Why doesn't Erie county sell the naming rights?
The stadium is awful and it's in the middle of nowhere.

"Buffalo" doesn't get $1.4 billion. The State chips in, the locality might, the NFL chips in, the owners chip in, and there's other ways to borrow the money (bonds).

If we want to be an NFL city longer than the next 5 years or so, we have to build a state of the art stadium soon. You can't keep this team at the Ralph forever, and putting it off isn't going to make it any easier.

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