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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-23-2012, 07:23 PM
  #26
frankthetank91
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
acquiring players that can compete for roster spots but have never been regulars is something a team like the Oilers would do. A rebuilding team that wants to give their young players experience.

The Canucks are in win-now mode. They will try and maximize their chance to win within the next 2 years, while the Sedins are still under excellent contracts.

Because of that win-now mentality, along with the makeup of their current roster, I think a trade with Bozak-Colborne involved makes more sense than Kadri being included.

Bozak gives them a legitimate NHL caliber player to fill a top-9 role. Depending on how long the lockout lasts, he can cover for Kesler's injury, and then slide into the 3rd line spot once he's back. It gives the team a solid 1-2-3 to contend with this year (and 4 when you count Lapierre). While Bozak is on a 1yr contract, if he plays well (and his contract doesn't skyrocket) he can be retained, if not Colborne could step in the following year after spending some time with the club's development. Next year Bozak, Lapierre (and Malhotra) are all UFAs, all covering bottom-6 roles, while neither Kadri nor Schroeder are suited to fill that role (especially the way this team is setup).

Kadri I feel would be a wasted asset in this organization. He doesn't fit on this club in his natural role (top-6 center), while not being experienced enough to fill a key defensive 3rd line center role (sounds like a familiar situation, doesn't it?). If this organization was 3-4 years ahead (or behind) in their development right now, it could make more sense, but right now it's all about the Cup, and patience to develop talent at the NHL level will be limited, and on a team like that, who already has Henrik-Kesler down the middle, I don't see him being in a situation he can develop well in.

Bozak is one of a few Leafs players that would upgrade a spot on this team that could be available in a trade, and given that our biggest need right now is the #3 center position, he'd be a good fit in a trade IMO.

I also think that Kulemin is a player that upgrades our current top-9, though the need for a center is higher at this point.
Agreed which is why i'm confused why so many want the centerpiece to be a 1st if your in win now mode. Bozak+Colborne+? is a good base.

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10-23-2012, 07:24 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Kadri, Colborne, Connolly and a 2nd is as far as i'd go. I'm sorry but protected or not I just CAN'T see Burke trading our 1st.

Kadri becomes your best prospect and theres a large chance he cracks the line up, possibly pushing out Raymond for now. Connolly would be the 3C or even 2C if Kesler is still injured when the season resumes(doubt it though). And Colborne and a 2nd are generous add-ins IMO.
I prefer the original proposal as well (Bozak/Colborne/Frattin/Ashton).

I don't see Kadri as a fit on this team at all. And no interest in Connolly either.

Let's just agree on Bozak, Colborne, Frattin and Ashton and call it a day!

Whatever other needs the Canucks have (like getting a prospect dman) they can do that with other trades. This is a good return to address current needs and add future value, while giving the team enough cap flexibility (and trade assets) to improve with other trades.

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10-23-2012, 07:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I could live with that, but would hold out for more.

I really want Finn/1st....Middle ground is abound, it seems, and hopefully Gillis is able to pry one or both out of TO.

Finn seems like an ideal consolation prize over Gardiner, imo.
No chance. It will be a Kadri/Frattin and a salary dump and no more.

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10-23-2012, 07:29 PM
  #29
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No chance. It will be a Kadri/Frattin and a salary dump and no more.
If all we're getting back is Frattin + dump, we might as well keep Luongo and sign an UFA 3rd/4th liner.

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10-23-2012, 07:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
The majority of Nuck fans went with Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton option. While it sucks to be so close to an agreed deal, Finn is a no-go from the Leafs. Freshly drafted, lucky to get him where we got him, hometown kid(something we need more of) and one of our D-Man prospects who's a 2 way guy. I got a solid feeling about this kid, so much to the point where I would trade Kadri over Finn, I don't know if this is crazy but it's my opinion.
Far too many untouchables from the Leafs side. If you want to bring in a player that will be your team MVP over the next half decade you need to include 1 higher end asset to build around. IMO you're just not going to get Gillis to pull the trigger with Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, JVR, Rielly and Finn off the table...

With Phaneuf, Rielly and Gardiner in the mix there's no reason Finn should be an untouchable...

To Tor- Luongo, Schroeder
To Van- Bozak, Frattin, Finn, Biggs

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10-23-2012, 07:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
I prefer the original proposal as well (Bozak/Colborne/Frattin/Ashton).

I don't see Kadri as a fit on this team at all. And no interest in Connolly either.

Let's just agree on Bozak, Colborne, Frattin and Ashton and call it a day!

Whatever other needs the Canucks have (like getting a prospect dman) they can do that with other trades. This is a good return to address current needs and add future value, while giving the team enough cap flexibility (and trade assets) to improve with other trades.
I'm cool with that. Lotta Leafs fans might not like it(even I would prefer if you took Connolly over Bozak) but nevertheless i'd do it. I love Frattin but Leafs fans complain Kadri doesn't get any playing time, unless we make a trade he won't fit. Connolly filling the 1C position and Kadri taking Frattins spot is no big deal for me. The loss of Colborne and Ashton can be filled internally or trading the excess of d-men we have later on.

However if Connolly gets injured we are royally ****ed

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10-23-2012, 07:31 PM
  #32
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If all we're getting back is Frattin + dump, we might as well keep Luongo and sign an UFA 3rd/4th liner.
Ball and chain contract for count'em 10 years.

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10-23-2012, 07:33 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
Ball and chain contract for count'em 10 years.
It's not like Luongo is serviceable for the next few years right?

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10-23-2012, 07:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
I prefer the original proposal as well (Bozak/Colborne/Frattin/Ashton).

I don't see Kadri as a fit on this team at all. And no interest in Connolly either.

Let's just agree on Bozak, Colborne, Frattin and Ashton and call it a day!
Colborne + Ashton = 1st?

Seems like there is always a 1st involved in these kinds of deals.

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10-23-2012, 07:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Colborne + Ashton = 1st?

Seems like there is always a 1st involved in these kinds of deals.
Toronto (hopefully) won't include a 1st in any proposal.

I'm actually ok with the Bozak + Frattin + Colborne + Finn proposal some Canucks fans are saying. I'd rather give Ashton over Finn, but given how most Canuck fans prefer Kadri over Colborne, I would think this is a decent middle ground that I can do. You essentially have a good 3rd line centre, potential 2nd line/3rd line winger that is pretty much NHL ready, and 2 decent prospects.

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10-23-2012, 07:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
acquiring players that can compete for roster spots but have never been regulars is something a team like the Oilers would do. A rebuilding team that wants to give their young players experience.

The Canucks are in win-now mode. They will try and maximize their chance to win within the next 2 years, while the Sedins are still under excellent contracts.

Because of that win-now mentality, along with the makeup of their current roster, I think a trade with Bozak-Colborne involved makes more sense than Kadri being included.

Bozak gives them a legitimate NHL caliber player to fill a top-9 role. Depending on how long the lockout lasts, he can cover for Kesler's injury, and then slide into the 3rd line spot once he's back. It gives the team a solid 1-2-3 to contend with this year (and 4 when you count Lapierre). While Bozak is on a 1yr contract, if he plays well (and his contract doesn't skyrocket) he can be retained, if not Colborne could step in the following year after spending some time with the club's development. Next year Bozak, Lapierre (and Malhotra) are all UFAs, all covering bottom-6 roles, while neither Kadri nor Schroeder are suited to fill that role (especially the way this team is setup).

Kadri I feel would be a wasted asset in this organization. He doesn't fit on this club in his natural role (top-6 center), while not being experienced enough to fill a key defensive 3rd line center role (sounds like a familiar situation, doesn't it?). If this organization was 3-4 years ahead (or behind) in their development right now, it could make more sense, but right now it's all about the Cup, and patience to develop talent at the NHL level will be limited, and on a team like that, who already has Henrik-Kesler down the middle, I don't see him being in a situation he can develop well in.

Bozak is one of a few Leafs players that would upgrade a spot on this team that could be available in a trade, and given that our biggest need right now is the #3 center position, he'd be a good fit in a trade IMO.

I also think that Kulemin is a player that upgrades our current top-9, though the need for a center is higher at this point.
I just don't see why we can take on some talented youth, give them a chance to break out, and if they fail to impress before the deadline, flip a package for a proven player. I simply see Kadri involved due to all the media rumours about him being unhappy, I'd be fine with a package that didn't include him(but would have to iclude either Finn or the 1st then). Our goal is to create a perennial contender, and to do that we need to allow youth on our roster. Kadri would do well on the 2nd line as a playmaker for Kesler/Booth, or could centre the line while Kesler's out. Colborne could try out for the 3C.

Worst case scenario and they all underachieve, we send a package at the deadline for Perry, Iginla, etc. If anything I see it as maximizing our chances, as we either get a lot of young players who can contribute or we get bargaining chips for an impact player at the deadline.

I don't mind Bozak as a piece coming back, but I wouldn't say he's neccessary. Schroeder flanked by Higgins and Hansen might do well there, or we could simply sign Arnott.

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10-23-2012, 07:37 PM
  #37
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Toronto (hopefully) won't include a 1st in any proposal.

I'm actually ok with the Bozak + Frattin + Colborne + Finn proposal some Canucks fans are saying. I'd rather give Ashton over Finn, but given how most Canuck fans prefer Kadri over Colborne, I would think this is a decent middle ground that I can do. You essentially have a good 3rd line centre, potential 2nd line/3rd line winger that is pretty much NHL ready, and 2 decent prospects.
Sounds good to me.

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10-23-2012, 07:37 PM
  #38
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It's not like Luongo is serviceable for the next few years right?
Agreed. It is really about not wanting to give you Frattin, take Kadri and we will keep Connolly and send you Lombardi instead.

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10-23-2012, 07:38 PM
  #39
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Colborne + Ashton = 1st?

Seems like there is always a 1st involved in these kinds of deals.
Well i'm not going to dump on Luongo and act like I don't want him, he's good and will be serviceable but you have to admit the contract plus everyone and their mothers knowing Schneider will be taking over number one and Luongo has to go drops his value a bit.

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10-23-2012, 07:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
I'm cool with that. Lotta Leafs fans might not like it(even I would prefer if you took Connolly over Bozak) but nevertheless i'd do it. I love Frattin but Leafs fans complain Kadri doesn't get any playing time, unless we make a trade he won't fit. Connolly filling the 1C position and Kadri taking Frattins spot is no big deal for me. The loss of Colborne and Ashton can be filled internally or trading the excess of d-men we have later on.

However if Connolly gets injured we are royally ****ed
And there you have it! A Canucks fan and a Leafs fan agreed on a deal!

Now can we get anyone else to agree? I think the lockout has infected most people here... they're trained never to agree on anything and keep trying to milk anything extra they can. Why be fair when you can screw the other side, right?

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10-23-2012, 07:41 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post

Let's just agree on Bozak, Colborne, Frattin and Ashton and call it a day!
I don't think Burke will trade Frattin imo, but I would agree to this if a 2nd was coming back from Canucks.

So Bozak+Colborne+Frattin/Kadri+Ashton for Luongo+2nd or Bozak+Colborne/Kadri+Ashton/Blacker for Luongo+4th.

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10-23-2012, 07:45 PM
  #42
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Well i'm not going to dump on Luongo and act like I don't want him, he's good and will be serviceable but you have to admit the contract plus everyone and their mothers knowing Schneider will be taking over number one and Luongo has to go drops his value a bit.
There has to be something in there that gives us the kind of potential Luongo offers the leafs. Normally that would mean a blue chip prospect, but his position, contract, age etc. make that unlikely. A protected first gives us the opportunity to salvage the deal by drafting and developing well.

Frattin and Bozak are good players but neither is likely to come close to making the impact Lu can. We need at least a shot at an impact player imo.

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10-23-2012, 07:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
And there you have it! A Canucks fan and a Leafs fan agreed on a deal!

Now can we get anyone else to agree? I think the lockout has infected most people here... they're trained never to agree on anything and keep trying to milk anything extra they can. Why be fair when you can screw the other side, right?
I do. Sounds like a pretty reasonable trade to me. I really like Frattin and don't want to trade him, but Luongo will be the first legit goalie we've had in years. I say we go for it.

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10-23-2012, 07:48 PM
  #44
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Well i'm not going to dump on Luongo and act like I don't want him, he's good and will be serviceable but you have to admit the contract plus everyone and their mothers knowing Schneider will be taking over number one and Luongo has to go drops his value a bit.
Luongo with a normal contract length would be valued at the Kessel/Phaneufs of Toronto.

I think the fact we're discussing a package that doesn't include a Gardiner/Rielly is reflective of his drop in value.

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10-23-2012, 07:48 PM
  #45
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I think Ashton would be redundant for us. We'd have Higgins-Hansen-Kassian-Frattin all playing physical bottom 6 roles, no need for more. Finn over Ashton and I'm good.

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10-23-2012, 07:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Ashton would be redundant for us. We'd have Higgins-Hansen-Kassian-Frattin all playing physical bottom 6 roles, no need for more. Finn over Ashton and I'm good.
Chris Higgins is a UFA next year & if he has a season like similar to last years I bet he'll be wanting more then $1.9 a year & he'll likely get it. Remember that thing about Gillis wanting to get younger? Well not only does that happen but we get bigger in that process!


Bozak + Frattin + Colborne + Finn

Hate that I actually like that deal as I don't want to see Luongo as a Leaf.


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10-23-2012, 07:57 PM
  #47
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Chris Higgins is a UFA next year & if he has a season like similar to last years I bet he'll be wanting more then $1.9 a year & he'll likely get it. Remember that thing about Gillis wanting to get younger? Well not only does that happen but we get bigger in that process!

Hate that I actually like that deal as I don't want to see Luongo as a Leaf.
Meh, Ashton-type players are much easier to come by than Finn-type players...not to mention our defensive prospect depth is terrible.

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10-23-2012, 07:58 PM
  #48
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I just don't see why we can take on some talented youth, give them a chance to break out, and if they fail to impress before the deadline, flip a package for a proven player. I simply see Kadri involved due to all the media rumours about him being unhappy, I'd be fine with a package that didn't include him(but would have to iclude either Finn or the 1st then). Our goal is to create a perennial contender, and to do that we need to allow youth on our roster. Kadri would do well on the 2nd line as a playmaker for Kesler/Booth, or could centre the line while Kesler's out. Colborne could try out for the 3C.

Worst case scenario and they all underachieve, we send a package at the deadline for Perry, Iginla, etc. If anything I see it as maximizing our chances, as we either get a lot of young players who can contribute or we get bargaining chips for an impact player at the deadline.

I don't mind Bozak as a piece coming back, but I wouldn't say he's neccessary. Schroeder flanked by Higgins and Hansen might do well there, or we could simply sign Arnott.
It's not just bringing in talented youth, it's bringing them into roles and situations where they can succeed. There are certainties with this roster that every prospect will have to work with - AV and how he runs the team and what he demands from players in specific roles, our veteran depth overall with Henrik-Kesler in the top-2 spots, and our current goals as a team.

Bringing in talented youth like Kassian (right winger on a team that lacks depth in that position) and Tanev (right side dman to fill a bottom-pairing role) helps this team and puts them in a situation and role to develop in. Bringing in youth like Kadri (top-6 talent, isn't a shutdown type player, lacks experience) to fill the 3rd line center role doesn't work. Then you try and develop him out of position and that rarely works - especially on a team that is contending now and won't have much patience to develop players at the NHL level.

We went through this same situation recently with Hodgson.

Personally, I don't see Schroeder making it on this roster either. He still has time as he hasn't played any NHL games and is no where near waiver eligibility so he can continue to develop in the A. Kadri, with 50 NHL games now won't have much time left to develop in the minors in this system. But in the end, as long as Henrik-Kesler are set in stone in the top-2 spots, I don't see prospects like Schroeder or Kadri making it on this roster. They lack the size and/or defensive mentality to fit as a 3rd line center in AV's system.

And whether we agree or not with AV and how he runs the team, is really irrelevant ... we know his tendencies, and knowing that, we should know that a player like Kadri is a long-shot to fit in well. And I don't see AV going anywhere anytime soon.

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10-23-2012, 08:01 PM
  #49
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Even though we agreed on a deal already..

Just wanted to point out that Kadri in his NHL stints and mostly in the AHL has been playing the wing. More likely for him at this point to become a winger then center IMO.

And once again, Finn isn't going anywhere I can assure you.

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10-23-2012, 08:02 PM
  #50
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Luongo with a normal contract length would be valued at the Kessel/Phaneufs of Toronto.

I think the fact we're discussing a package that doesn't include a Gardiner/Rielly is reflective of his drop in value.
Phaneuf with aulie and sjostrom returned UFA stajan/Ian white and mayers.

So that would be= Bozak/Franson/and brown......

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