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10-23-2012, 06:46 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
I think your missing the real point here. It is not just a $550 million dollar loss over the next 6 years the players are fighting against. It is this idea that during every work stoppage, the players should continue to give a little bit more, and then at the next stoppage give a little bit more, and then a little bit more. The players already gave in to a salary cap and a 25% rollback in salary during the last lockout. Now the NHL wants them to give up another 7% reduction in yearly revenue, along with 12-13% in salary for the upcoming year. The players are willing to give up some monetary concessions, without the need for any real benefit. And at this point in time the players are going to eventually accept a deal that provides real concessions to the owners. But they cannot make a deal that leads to the owners believing that once a decade they can bait further and further concessions during another round of "negotiations." That is not a partnership. That is a dictatorship, and this is not going to get resolved until the owners collectively decide to offer a fair proposal which takes into account just how healthy the NHL was before the lockout began. This is not 7 years ago, the NHL is in a MUCH different place, and the players should not be forced to make such a one-sided agreement.
We can say that you are clearly missing the point as well. That in order to have a viable league that compares with the other pro sports, the players need to conceed something now. And in what world is pro sports a partnership? It's still a employer/employee relationship no matter how you spin it.

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10-23-2012, 06:56 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
I think your missing the real point here. It is not just a $550 million dollar loss over the next 6 years the players are fighting against. It is this idea that during every work stoppage, the players should continue to give a little bit more, and then at the next stoppage give a little bit more, and then a little bit more. The players already gave in to a salary cap and a 25% rollback in salary during the last lockout. Now the NHL wants them to give up another 7% reduction in yearly revenue, along with 12-13% in salary for the upcoming year. The players are willing to give up some monetary concessions, without the need for any real benefit. And at this point in time the players are going to eventually accept a deal that provides real concessions to the owners. But they cannot make a deal that leads to the owners believing that once a decade they can bait further and further concessions during another round of "negotiations." That is not a partnership. That is a dictatorship, and this is not going to get resolved until the owners collectively decide to offer a fair proposal which takes into account just how healthy the NHL was before the lockout began. This is not 7 years ago, the NHL is in a MUCH different place, and the players should not be forced to make such a one-sided agreement.
The players aren't forced to do anything. They can sit out for zero dollars. That is their right.

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10-23-2012, 07:37 PM
  #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
I think your missing the real point here. It is not just a $550 million dollar loss over the next 6 years the players are fighting against. It is this idea that during every work stoppage, the players should continue to give a little bit more, and then at the next stoppage give a little bit more, and then a little bit more. The players already gave in to a salary cap and a 25% rollback in salary during the last lockout. Now the NHL wants them to give up another 7% reduction in yearly revenue, along with 12-13% in salary for the upcoming year. The players are willing to give up some monetary concessions, without the need for any real benefit. And at this point in time the players are going to eventually accept a deal that provides real concessions to the owners. But they cannot make a deal that leads to the owners believing that once a decade they can bait further and further concessions during another round of "negotiations." That is not a partnership. That is a dictatorship, and this is not going to get resolved until the owners collectively decide to offer a fair proposal which takes into account just how healthy the NHL was before the lockout began. This is not 7 years ago, the NHL is in a MUCH different place, and the players should not be forced to make such a one-sided agreement.
The only league to not have a lockout in the last couple of decades is the only league that pays its workers less than 50% of revenues. Coincidence? Games lost isn't on Bettman, it's on the PA. The other leagues haven't had as many games lost because the players aren't dumb enough to lose an entire season of pay before signing the leagues best offer. The 24% rollback was presented by the NHLPA in a last ditch effort to avoid a cap. If they accepted the cap with the NHL's first offer, they wouldn't have had a rollback at all. That rollback is on the NHLPA.

Once it gets to 50/50, the next CBAs will just battle for contract rights and revenue sharing.

MLB has consistently payed it's players less than the other leagues when you look at the percentage of revenue.

Sports leagues have never been or will ever be a "partnership" until both sides share in the financial risk. I don't remember any player losing money last season.

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10-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #679
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According to Matheiu Dandenault, the players asked the league for a meeting tomorrow

http://tvasports.ca/tvasports/hockey...23-202154.html

Quote:

À deux jours de la date butoir pour une saison de 82 matchs, aucune rencontre n'est encore à l'horaire entre la Ligue nationale de hockey et l'Association des joueurs.

Cela pourrait toutefois changer puisque les joueurs ont demandé au président de l'AJLNH, Donald Fehr, d'organiser une rencontre avec la LNH mercredi, a appris Mathieu Dandenault, analyste pour la chaîne TVA Sports.

Cette séance de négociations aurait lieu à New York, où se trouvent déjà les têtes dirigeantes de l'AJLNH, dont les frères Fehr.

Il n'y a pas eu de discussions formelles entre les deux parties depuis jeudi dernier, alors que la LNH avait balayé du revers de la main les trois propositions de l'AJLNH. La LNH avait auparavant déposé une offre, mardi.

Par la suite, les propriétaires et les directeurs généraux ont eu l'occasion de parler à leurs joueurs lors d'une trêve de 48 heures.

Le lock-out a été décrété le 15 septembre dernier et tous les matchs du mois d'octobre ont été annulés par la LNH.

and for those of you who don't speak French

Quote:
Dos días de la fecha límite de fecha para una temporada de 82 partidos, ninguna reunión todavía está prevista entre la national hockey League y los Asociación de jugadores.

Sin embargo, esto podría cambiar porque los jugadores han pedido al Presidente de la NHLPA, Donald Fehr, organizar una reunión con el miércoles de la NHL, aprendido Mathieu Dandenault, Analista para el canal de deportes de TVA.

Esta sesión de negociaciones tendrá lugar en Nueva York, donde ya los jefes de la NHLPA, cuyos hermanos Fehr.

No ha tenido ningún debate formal entre las dos partes desde el pasado jueves, mientras que la NHL barrió a la parte posterior de la mano las tres propuestas de la NHLPA. La NHL previamente había presentado una oferta del martes.

Posteriormente, los propietarios y gerentes generales han tenido la oportunidad de hablar con sus jugadores durante una tregua de 48 horas.

El bloqueo se impuso el 15 de septiembre y se han cancelado todos los partidos del mes de octubre por la NHL















and for you lazy bastages that only speak English


Quote:
Two days from the date deadline for a season of 82 games, no meeting is yet scheduled between the national hockey League and the players Association.

This could however change because players have asked the president of the NHLPA, Donald Fehr, to arrange a meeting with the NHL Wednesday, learned Mathieu Dandenault, analyst for the TVA Sports channel.

This session of negotiations would take place in New York, where already the heads of the NHLPA, whose brothers Fehr.

However one should not jump to conclusions too quickly as the Deputy Commissioner of the NHL, Bill Daly, said TVA sports in an e-mail that it was not expected to meet with NHLPA Wednesday.

"The players Association contacted us, but the players seem not interested in our proposal are filed last Tuesday, he wrote. They are not ready to make a new offer either. "I don't think that a meeting is necessary at this time."

He has had no formal discussions between the two sides since last Thursday, while the NHL had swept to the back of the hand the three proposals of the NHLPA.

Subsequently, owners and general managers have had the opportunity to talk to their players during a 48-hour truce.

The lockout was imposed on September 15 and all matches of the month of October have been canceled by the NHL.


Last edited by Julius Caesar Milan: 10-23-2012 at 08:32 PM.
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Old
10-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
According to Matheiu Dandenault, the players asked the league for a meeting tomorrow

http://tvasports.ca/tvasports/hockey...23-202154.html




and for those of you who don't speak French


















and for you lazy bastages that only speak English
Get in a ****ing room and meet. Stop *****ing about what you think they are interested in and find the **** out. Nothing gets done off assumptions and blowing bubbles.

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10-23-2012, 09:07 PM
  #681
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Nothing but an attempted PR stunt by the players.

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10-23-2012, 09:32 PM
  #682
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Nothing but an attempted PR stunt by the players.
This has nothing to do with the NHLPA. This is the players telling the NHLPA they want a meeting. In other words they are telling Fehr to get the ball rolling. At least they want to open up a verbal driving lane.

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10-23-2012, 09:51 PM
  #683
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Nothing but an attempted PR stunt by the players.
Agreed.

They know they are losing the PR battle and this is one lame-ass attempt at trying to stop the dam waters from pouring over them. Not sure how low they think our intelligence level is, but this stunt gives us a pretty good idea what they think it is.

Lame.

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10-23-2012, 09:52 PM
  #684
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This has nothing to do with the NHLPA. This is the players telling the NHLPA they want a meeting. In other words they are telling Fehr to get the ball rolling. At least they want to open up a verbal driving lane.
Nope. Just a PR stunt by the NHLPA. Why else would they leak the request? They don't have a new proposal and they don't want to negotiate the NHL offer from Tuesday. What exactly is the meeting for? Billable hours for the lawyers?

I'm so glad the NHLPA cares more about the PR battle than trying to save as much money by negotiating their percentages and contract terms. I'm glad they are going to lose $1.8 billion of the fans money so that they can say they won the PR battle.

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10-23-2012, 09:55 PM
  #685
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What exactly is the meeting for? Billable hours for the lawyers?
Nailed it.

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10-23-2012, 10:06 PM
  #686
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Nope. Just a PR stunt by the NHLPA. Why else would they leak the request? They don't have a new proposal and they don't want to negotiate the NHL offer from Tuesday. What exactly is the meeting for? Billable hours for the lawyers?

I'm so glad the NHLPA cares more about the PR battle than trying to save as much money by negotiating their percentages and contract terms. I'm glad they are going to lose $1.8 billion of the fans money so that they can say they won the PR battle.
You can't get anywhere without talking.

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10-23-2012, 10:20 PM
  #687
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You can't get anywhere without talking.
As Daly said, the NHLPA already rejected the NHL's offer, so what the **** are they going to talk about?

The weather?

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10-23-2012, 10:21 PM
  #688
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I like that translation....the Brothers Fehr....now just trying to figure out if Donald is Dmitri or Ivan.....

Or maybe Smerdyakov.....





Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
This has nothing to do with the NHLPA. This is the players telling the NHLPA they want a meeting. In other words they are telling Fehr to get the ball rolling. At least they want to open up a verbal driving lane.

I've disagreed with you so far in this thread, but I actually believe this as well. If your gonna leak you don't through a guy with no rep and no reach like Dandenault. He probably just knows a player and it got relayed to him.

Doing this as a "PR stunt" would be idiotic by the players...especially if you brought nothing to the table. Imagine the backlash if they called a meeting and just sat there....you call the meeting you gotta bring something to the table...and anything brought to the table is atleast a little bit of advancement.

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10-23-2012, 10:21 PM
  #689
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You can't get anywhere without talking.
You want another 15 minute meeting?

NHL asks the PA if they have a new proposal. Answer is no.

NHL asks if they want to discuss the NHL's proposal from Tuesday. Answer is no.

Meeting over.


It's just like all of the idiotic players on twitter saying they would go to 50/50 if all contracts are honored. This is impossible to do. It's just PR by the NHLPA.

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10-23-2012, 10:29 PM
  #690
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You want another 15 minute meeting?

NHL asks the PA if they have a new proposal. Answer is no.

NHL asks if they want to discuss the NHL's proposal from Tuesday. Answer is no.

Meeting over.


It's just like all of the idiotic players on twitter saying they would go to 50/50 if all contracts are honored. This is impossible to do. It's just PR by the NHLPA.
The players have asked Fehr to have a meeting. The rest is up to Fehr as to how he approaches the NHL.

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10-23-2012, 10:35 PM
  #691
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The players have asked Fehr to have a meeting. The rest is up to Fehr as to how he approaches the NHL.
im pretty sure we all know how thats gonna go.

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10-23-2012, 10:36 PM
  #692
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The players have asked Fehr to have a meeting. The rest is up to Fehr as to how he approaches the NHL.
Yes it does, but right now the NHLPA has nothing new. Until they do, there is no reason to meet.

Again the NHLPA is willing to lose a season to gain nothing. It always sucks to enter into negotiations with no leverage, but to do nothing to limit the damage is not a smart move.

Does anyone believe that the owners will increase their offers once games are lost? They will get their salary roll backs by missing an entire season. They will still get their 50/50 split.

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10-23-2012, 10:38 PM
  #693
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Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, B. Richards, Marleau, Iginla, Luongo, Thornton, Briere, The Sedin's. These guys will all have lost two seasons of accomplishments in addition to the eight figures in salaries they will have lost.

Most of the Kings are younger and our roster wasn't affected much by the 04-05 lockout, but there are a few. Justin Williams, Willie Mitchell, Jarret Stoll, two of your prime years and prime earning potential years just flushed down the toilet.

Hope it was worth it guys.

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10-23-2012, 10:39 PM
  #694
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The players have asked Fehr to have a meeting. The rest is up to Fehr as to how he approaches the NHL.
Fehr: "Hi Gary, looks like we have a 30% chance of rain this morning."

Bettman: "Yup. Winter's just around the corner. Brrrrrrr!"

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10-23-2012, 10:43 PM
  #695
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Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, B. Richards, Marleau, Iginla, Luongo, Thornton, Briere, The Sedin's. These guys will all have lost two seasons of accomplishments in addition to the eight figures in salaries they will have lost.

Most of the Kings are younger and our roster wasn't affected much by the 04-05 lockout, but there are a few. Justin Williams, Willie Mitchell, Jarret Stoll, two of your prime years and prime earning potential years just flushed down the toilet.

Hope it was worth it guys.
That's a very good point. Most of those guys you listed will have lost years off both ends of their respective primes. I don't see how they think that's worth it.

One of the most annoying things for me in this whole mess is the players who weren't even in the NHL last lockout complaining about how the owners "won" the last one, as if that's some justification to sacrifice their careers now.

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10-23-2012, 10:47 PM
  #696
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I still think the NHLPA will cave around thanksgiving and will play around 60 games. Which will cost them as much as they potentially lose in six years if they just accepted the NHL offer today.

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10-24-2012, 12:10 AM
  #697
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Roenick talks about this very issue in this video clip.

Players should consider the long-term effect of a prolonged strike on their careers. Especially since they don't have a change against ownership in this regard.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/49525869

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10-24-2012, 02:00 AM
  #698
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Side note here...anyone know if Drew is skating anywhere on a regular basis during the lockout? We don't want him getting all Byfuglien while this **** gets worked out.

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10-24-2012, 03:11 AM
  #699
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That's a very good point. Most of those guys you listed will have lost years off both ends of their respective primes. I don't see how they think that's worth it.
Excellent point. These guys have made millions and millions playing the game though. Assuming the season is lost – they will have, no doubt, lost a lot of money and 2 precious years in their careers. It’s easier to stand on principle if you’re already financially well off.

Doesn’t mean they will like it, but they can possibly easier accept it than a lot of other players in different situations … another year lost to a lockout will likely end careers of some of the finest players in the game … Selanne, Brodeur, Alfie etc. Players’ who’ll have their careers ended in a ridiculous manner rather than playing out a final season when there is still some gas left in the tank. A year long lockout may also outright prevent low-level players from having any sort of NHL career. Players who may be on the verge of establishing fledging careers may end up being passed over by an up and coming player.

The star players may lose millions of dollars, running into the double digits, but the lower level players would possibly lose all or the majority of dollars they’d ever earn from the NHL.

Regardless how you look at it, it’s extremely difficult to see who exactly benefits in the NHLPA from not seeking a resolution. They have to realize that they are only hurting themselves by hurting the game.

I really hope there is a speedy resolution. But, I also hope that they find an agreement where the players share is linked to the revenue … and then I hope the overall revenue DROPS from a loss of sponsorships and a lack of fan-support. That way players and owners alike would be hurt for their collective stupidity. Maybe for the next time at the dance they will remember that there’s a price to be paid for holding the game at ransom.


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One of the most annoying things for me in this whole mess is the players who weren't even in the NHL last lockout complaining about how the owners "won" the last one, as if that's some justification to sacrifice their careers now.
Another good point. I think the players/players association has developed a collective and selective memory on the topic. They’ll remember ”losing” the CBA negotiations, but conveniently forget how extremely well they have been doing at every level since then.

As much as they hate on Bettman, from their perspective, there has been created additional jobs via new franchises – their salaries have increased significantly with jumbo-contracts being thrown around to top players but also or perhabs particularly at the mid-level and lower level. If memory serves league minimum salary before the lost season was about 150.000. I think it’s 550.000 now. A solid 3rd line plug who had one good year or playoff year can take home 2+ million per year on multi-year deals.

I just can’t feel bad for these players.

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10-24-2012, 08:18 AM
  #700
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The players have asked Fehr to have a meeting. The rest is up to Fehr as to how he approaches the NHL.
So what your really saying is "don't hold your breath waiting for Fehr to set up a meeting," right?

Quote:
I like that translation....the Brothers Fehr....now just trying to figure out if Donald is Dmitri or Ivan.....
Donald would have to be Dmitri. No way is he Ivan or Alexei... And we all know that Bettman is obviously Smerdyakov.

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