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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
  #51
kthsn
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Bozak, Frattin, Kadri, Blacker/Percy?

Too much, too litte?

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeLoBlue View Post
Toronto (hopefully) won't include a 1st in any proposal.

I'm actually ok with the Bozak + Frattin + Colborne + Finn proposal some Canucks fans are saying. I'd rather give Ashton over Finn, but given how most Canuck fans prefer Kadri over Colborne, I would think this is a decent middle ground that I can do. You essentially have a good 3rd line centre, potential 2nd line/3rd line winger that is pretty much NHL ready, and 2 decent prospects.
Finn is going no where. As of right now he is playing so well in the OHL and is value right now substantial. I prefer we keep him as he shows great leadership qualities and outside of his mistakes he can make when making a first pass in the defensive zone he is coming along nicely.

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10-23-2012, 08:04 PM
  #53
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Bozak, Frattin, Colbourne, Ashton

I'm liking the consensus....

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:04 PM
  #54
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No Finn?

I'm sorry but we need the Finn Twins

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:04 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Phaneuf with aulie and sjostrom returned UFA stajan/Ian white and mayers.

So that would be= Bozak/Franson/and brown......
Lol well i'll admit that was a fluke for us. For that to happen again it would be Connolly/Lombardi/Franson and Brown for Luongo, that's not happening though. Sutter was out his mind don't use that as a measure for Luongos value.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:07 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Bozak, Frattin, Colbourne, Ashton

I'm liking the consensus....
Keep it going, spread the word. This agreement is the 2nd biggest thing in hockey next to the lockout ending

Ashton or a 2nd( for the record)

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:08 PM
  #57
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
It's not just bringing in talented youth, it's bringing them into roles and situations where they can succeed. There are certainties with this roster that every prospect will have to work with - AV and how he runs the team and what he demands from players in specific roles, our veteran depth overall with Henrik-Kesler in the top-2 spots, and our current goals as a team.

Bringing in talented youth like Kassian (right winger on a team that lacks depth in that position) and Tanev (right side dman to fill a bottom-pairing role) helps this team and puts them in a situation and role to develop in. Bringing in youth like Kadri (top-6 talent, isn't a shutdown type player, lacks experience) to fill the 3rd line center role doesn't work. Then you try and develop him out of position and that rarely works - especially on a team that is contending now and won't have much patience to develop players at the NHL level.

We went through this same situation recently with Hodgson.

Personally, I don't see Schroeder making it on this roster either. He still has time as he hasn't played any NHL games and is no where near waiver eligibility so he can continue to develop in the A. Kadri, with 50 NHL games now won't have much time left to develop in the minors in this system. But in the end, as long as Henrik-Kesler are set in stone in the top-2 spots, I don't see prospects like Schroeder or Kadri making it on this roster. They lack the size and/or defensive mentality to fit as a 3rd line center in AV's system.

And whether we agree or not with AV and how he runs the team, is really irrelevant ... we know his tendencies, and knowing that, we should know that a player like Kadri is a long-shot to fit in well. And I don't see AV going anywhere anytime soon.
Kadri is more experienced than Kassian is. And he can fill in for Kesler as 2C, but putting him at the wing isn't as bad as you make it sound, most people I've talked to believe he is much better suited to it than centre, but maybe a knowledgeable Leafs fan can shed some light on that. The way you're talking you make it sound as though any player that isn't a grinder can't crack our roster. This isn't true, as we've seen with Hodgson. He wasn't let go because he was unsuccessfull, he was let go because of some kind of misunderstanding about the back injuries he suffered and how it was affecting his play. You're essentially writing off any offense-oriented third line centre, when we always complain about our lack of scoring depth.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:10 PM
  #58
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Kadri's been playing as a winger lately.

If we acquire him he can spend a season in Chicago and join the team next year as a cheap replacement for either Raymond or Higgins.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:12 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Finn is going no where. As of right now he is playing so well in the OHL and is value right now substantial. I prefer we keep him as he shows great leadership qualities and outside of his mistakes he can make when making a first pass in the defensive zone he is coming along nicely.
We wouldn't ask for him if he wasn't doing well.

But as I've said, you have

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Liles-Komisarek
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Holzer
Percy-Blacker

All in your system. With Gardiner and Rielly both projecting as high-end offensive minded left Ds. I highly doubt Toronto keeps all three of them.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Bozak, Frattin, Colbourne, Ashton

I'm liking the consensus....
Eh, I would still like Kadri involved over say, Colbourne or Ashton but that's me. I would still probably do the above.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:16 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Chris Higgins is a UFA next year & if he has a season like similar to last years I bet he'll be wanting more then $1.9 a year & he'll likely get it. Remember that thing about Gillis wanting to get younger? Well not only does that happen but we get bigger in that process!


Bozak + Frattin + Colborne + Finn

Hate that I actually like that deal as I don't want to see Luongo as a Leaf.
If Higgins continues to play like he has. We'd be stupid not to give him that raise. I would hand him Malhotra's salary without even blinking.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:19 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri is more experienced than Kassian is. And he can fill in for Kesler as 2C, but putting him at the wing isn't as bad as you make it sound, most people I've talked to believe he is much better suited to it than centre, but maybe a knowledgeable Leafs fan can shed some light on that. The way you're talking you make it sound as though any player that isn't a grinder can't crack our roster. This isn't true, as we've seen with Hodgson. He wasn't let go because he was unsuccessfull, he was let go because of some kind of misunderstanding about the back injuries he suffered and how it was affecting his play. You're essentially writing off any offense-oriented third line centre, when we always complain about our lack of scoring depth.
I'm writing off any offense-oriented 3rd line center who's defense isn't good enough to play tough defensive minutes.

Yes we always complain about our lack of scoring depth (and about a million other things as Canucks fans). Doesn't make any difference though. We know who our coach is. We know his tendencies and what he expects of players in specific roles. Do you really think that AV is going to give Kadri much room to develop in a 3rd line role for the Canucks?

And I don't know how well he's played the right wing before. This is Kassian's natural position and he's being given a chance to play in his natural position with the Canucks. And given Gillis' pursuit of Doan, it looks like his plan is to have Kassian start on the 4th line with the Canucks - a role he can play given his size and style of game. Don't see Kadri fitting into a bottom-6 spot on wing, and don't think he's good enough yet in his development to be a top-6er on a contending team. I just don't see him pushing Higgins out of a 2nd line spot at this stage.

If he's can't provide a bigger impact now (not potential, but now) than Higgins (or Booth), he doesn't get into the top-6. And it's pretty clear the type of players AV wants in the bottom-6 - you need to either bring size/grit or be a strong defensive presence.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:28 PM
  #63
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Kadri
Finn
Percy
Frattin

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Eh, I would still like Kadri involved over say, Colbourne or Ashton but that's me. I would still probably do the above.
Me too

Frattin
Bozak
Colborne/Kadri
Ashton/Kadri

I'm sold.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:33 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Kadri
Finn
Percy
Frattin
I'm just assuming this but I think Bozak would make a better immediate impact on the Canucks roster.

Bozak, Kadri (potential winger) Ashton/Blacker/Percy and potential pick?

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Kadri
Finn
Percy
Frattin
i dont think we can afford to just ship out 4 of our top 10 prospects like that.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:51 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
I'm writing off any offense-oriented 3rd line center who's defense isn't good enough to play tough defensive minutes.

Yes we always complain about our lack of scoring depth (and about a million other things as Canucks fans). Doesn't make any difference though. We know who our coach is. We know his tendencies and what he expects of players in specific roles. Do you really think that AV is going to give Kadri much room to develop in a 3rd line role for the Canucks?

And I don't know how well he's played the right wing before. This is Kassian's natural position and he's being given a chance to play in his natural position with the Canucks. And given Gillis' pursuit of Doan, it looks like his plan is to have Kassian start on the 4th line with the Canucks - a role he can play given his size and style of game. Don't see Kadri fitting into a bottom-6 spot on wing, and don't think he's good enough yet in his development to be a top-6er on a contending team. I just don't see him pushing Higgins out of a 2nd line spot at this stage.

If he's can't provide a bigger impact now (not potential, but now) than Higgins (or Booth), he doesn't get into the top-6. And it's pretty clear the type of players AV wants in the bottom-6 - you need to either bring size/grit or be a strong defensive presence.
Our first ever draft pick with Gillis was given the 3rd line centre position and was set up to succeed. Schroeder may or may not be given a shot this year, but Kadri is bigger, more talented, and has more NHL experience than him.

And just because Gillis went after Doan doesn't mean he's not willing to play youth in a top-6 role.

I think Grabner has clouded your judgement. How many prospects since then have been cut from the lineup for not being a grinder?

That said, I do like Colborne as a prospect, and if downrading from Kadri to Colborne could get us Finn as well, I'd do it.

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Old
10-23-2012, 08:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Me too

Frattin
Bozak
Colborne/Kadri
Ashton/Kadri

I'm sold.

Frattin
Bozak
Colbourne
Kulemin (Is far more useful now than Ashton or the fatty)

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:00 PM
  #69
Vankiller Whale
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I think we can all agree on Bozak and Frattin being 2 pieces. The other 2 could be any of:
Kadri
Finn
Colborne
Blacker
Ashton
Percy
(In that order for me)

I would add a piece like Schroeder for both Kadri and Finn.

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:09 PM
  #70
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Bozak
Frattin
Colborne
Ashton

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:12 PM
  #71
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I'd rather keep Schroeder, I don't see why everyone is insistent we give him up.

I know I am going to get screamed at, probably called a throwback, and worse, but I don't want futures to be the main part of a deal for Luongo. Colborne, Frattin and Franson are the only players that will likely make our team out of the gate (probably alternating with someone as a spare until injuries occur...maybe Kadri too) and I just don't feel that they really improve us enough.

Other proposals mention an LW like Kulemin, MacArthur or the center Bozak...again, I don't see these being great improvements.

Post #3 in this thread was mine, I'm probably on a few "blocked lists", and even if I am totally alone, I have to insist on a better return for next seasons rather then longer term.

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:16 PM
  #72
kthsn
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I have to insist on a better return for next seasons rather then longer term.
There is literally no way Toronto can do that.

If they give up a roster player that immediately improves our team (Grabovski/Lupul) they lose what little secondary scoring they have.

They arguable become a worse team with Luongo if they lose a key part (for their team) of their line-up

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:17 PM
  #73
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I'd rather keep Schroeder, I don't see why everyone is insistent we give him up.

I know I am going to get screamed at, probably called a throwback, and worse, but I don't want futures to be the main part of a deal for Luongo. Colborne, Frattin and Franson are the only players that will likely make our team out of the gate (probably alternating with someone as a spare until injuries occur...maybe Kadri too) and I just don't feel that they really improve us enough.

Other proposals mention an LW like Kulemin, MacArthur or the center Bozak...again, I don't see these being great improvements.

Post #3 in this thread was mine, I'm probably on a few "blocked lists", and even if I am totally alone, I have to insist on a better return for next seasons rather then longer term.
The thing is, no interested teams have any expendable impact players. May as well take multiple lotto lickets and hope we get a future impact player, or at the very least can get an impact player at the deadlin with them.

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:18 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnbiasHockeyFan1 View Post
Bozak
Frattin
Colborne
Ashton
Seems to be the consensus. I think it's a fair return...Would the Leafs be willing ot give up Kadri instead of BOTH Colbourne and Ashton?

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:35 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
There is literally no way Toronto can do that.

If they give up a roster player that immediately improves our team (Grabovski/Lupul) they lose what little secondary scoring they have.

They arguable become a worse team with Luongo if they lose a key part (for their team) of their line-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The thing is, no interested teams have any expendable impact players. May as well take multiple lotto lickets and hope we get a future impact player, or at the very least can get an impact player at the deadlin with them.
I understand to core problem of what I'm looking for, but I still would be wanting an improvement at one position or another back.

In every other instance, we wouldn't be looking at futures. Liles/MacArthur/Kulemin/Gunnarsson/Bozak or Kadri/Biggs/Blacker/Colborne/Ashton/Finn would be additions to another, larger core piece.

One of the Pronger deals (Lupul, Sbisa and 2 firsts + a conditional pick or Lupul, Smid, two firsts and a second, his age 31 and 34 respectively) is what I'd want to see as a template.

I just don't feel Toronto, or Florida for that matter, is a real fit.

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