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Old
10-23-2012, 06:53 PM
  #1
frankthetank91
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Our Future D-Core

Discussing this topic in another thread got me thinking.

Candidates that will be or have potential to crack our defense in the upcoming future are:

Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Finn, Liles, Holzer,Percy,Blacker.

Now i'm not saying all of them will make it but they have a great chance within the next 3 years.

What concerns me is that 7 of those 9 all can or already do play on the left side. So what gives? Phaneuf can obviously play the right but his natural side is the left on the top pairing, a spot that Rielly is looking to fill in the future.

So what gives? Can Finn play the left side? Will Gunnar and Liles be gone? Do Percy and Blacker have what it takes?

If Finn can play the right side comfortably then a top 4 of:

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn

looks good, but what are your thoughts on how it will look and what will we do with this back up on the left side?

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10-23-2012, 07:08 PM
  #2
SnipeCheeseAllDay
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Rielly - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Finn
Gunnarsson - Percy
-Holzer/Blacker/Loov/Granberg/Nilsson

Franson, Liles, Komisarek all let go/traded.

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10-23-2012, 08:34 PM
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Unless we trade for a #1 D, Phaneuf is always going to look out of place, in the #1 spot, where he should actually be a number 2.

We could raise a #1 from with in, but the age gap between Phaneuf and that raised player will be to big to have both going for a considerable amount of time to be able for them to make an impact.

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10-23-2012, 09:09 PM
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Hard to tell who will be here down the road.

Rielly and Gards are two pretty safe bets.

Blacker is another swift skating D-man. I like speed on the back end.

Holzer has steady eddie written all over him. #4,5,6 potential.

Gunnarsson is still young and is just such a quiet efficient player who has an amazing contract. I really can't see us holding onto him. More because he I think other GM's will be targetting him. Otherwise I would love to keep him.

I see Liles being moved next off-season. He needs a good year with DP to get his value back up, but he is only 2yrs removed from 47pts I think it was. The guy can put up numbers. Detroit might be in need?

At any rate the LEafs future D-corps is looking even better than when we had 1/2 of the starting 6 for Team Canada's WJC team.

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10-23-2012, 09:29 PM
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i like holzer, i just wish he were a bit "meaner". he's solid and reliable but hardly intimidating...when we're ready to compete i'd look to bring in a veteran physical presence for the 3rd pairing ala Matt Greene, Robyn Regher, Eric Brewer. Hard to go deep in the playoffs with a defence made entirely of kids.

However, based on what we have in the pipeline now:

Rielly - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
Percy - Holzer

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10-23-2012, 10:52 PM
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frankthetank91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Unless we trade for a #1 D, Phaneuf is always going to look out of place, in the #1 spot, where he should actually be a number 2.

We could raise a #1 from with in, but the age gap between Phaneuf and that raised player will be to big to have both going for a considerable amount of time to be able for them to make an impact.
Rielly has #1 potential. If everything goes smoothly he can be ready as early as next season. 1 or 2 seasons and he could be ready to be the #1 alongside Phaneuf who would still be around 30 years old.

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Old
10-23-2012, 10:58 PM
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Rielly is a stud. He can be a future #1.

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Old
10-23-2012, 11:01 PM
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Rielly - Phaneuf
Gunnarsson - Gardiner
Percy/Blacker - Finn/Blacker
Would be incredible

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Old
10-23-2012, 11:08 PM
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Dougie Gilmour
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One d man I love watching play is Blacker. Solid 2 way d man. I can see him being a bigger presence if he stuck to a more defensive style of play because he's a big kid and I've seen him hit and they are huge hits.

Haven't seen anything on Granberg. All I know is that he's a monster and would like to see him play in Toronto next season on the Marlies!

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10-23-2012, 11:32 PM
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frankthetank91
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But can anyone answer my previous question. Does anyone know if Finn, Gardiner, Percy, Rielly or Blacker can play either side? Left or Right?

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10-23-2012, 11:33 PM
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7even
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Typically your rule of thumb is to keep your defesnsive guys playing their side. It's more important for a defensively oriented guy to be on the same side as his handedness than a more rush/shot oriented guy.

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10-23-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
But can anyone answer my previous question. Does anyone know if Finn, Gardiner, Percy, Rielly or Blacker can play either side? Left or Right?
I believe someone said that Finn was playing both sides, maybe even the right a little more than the left in a game earlier this year and he didn't look out of place. Not sure if him playing on that side was an anomaly though.

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10-24-2012, 07:56 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Unless we trade for a #1 D, Phaneuf is always going to look out of place, in the #1 spot, where he should actually be a number 2.

We could raise a #1 from with in, but the age gap between Phaneuf and that raised player will be to big to have both going for a considerable amount of time to be able for them to make an impact.
I would have to disagree. I have had enough of people saying the Dion is not a number 1 when the real issue is that we lack quality depth around him. We have soft puck movers or lethargic defense that handle the puck like a grenade. Like it our not, Dion is a number 1 and if we had a quality number 2 play with him, rather than the revolving door of 3/4 dmen (Aulie, Gunner etc).

The fact that we lack quality depth that can play an all around game (make a good first pass, clear the front of the net, generally just being tougher) is only magnified by the fact that we have smaller wingers that don't commit to defence and come back to support the dmen. Heck we have a hard enough time getting our wingers into positions where they can clear the puck out of our zone


Last edited by Phaneuffan3: 10-24-2012 at 08:05 AM.
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10-24-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Phaneuffan3 View Post
I would have to agree. I have had enough of people saying the Dion is not a number 1 when the real issue is that we lack quality depth around him. We have soft puck movers or lethargic defense that handle the puck like a grenade. Like it our not, Dion is a number 1 and if we had a quality number 2 play with him, rather than the revolving door of 3/4 dmen (Aulie, Gunner etc).

The fact that we lack quality depth that can play an all around game (make a good first pass, clear the front of the net, generally just being tougher) is only magnified by the fact that we have smaller wingers that don't commit to defence and come back to support the dmen. Heck we have a hard enough time getting our wingers into positions where they can clear the puck out of our zone
If Rielly shows he is ready next year, Dion will benefit greatly from the Rielly break out, basically that is give him the puck to lug out. He also will benefit from Rielly's passing ability. These 2 could form a very solid tandem. Drew Doughty at 19 was already a very good D man, see some similarities in hockey IQ with Morgan and Drew. Next year could be a fun one watching these 2 patrolling our D.

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10-24-2012, 08:15 AM
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Let's say, hypothetically speaking, Percy, Loov, Nilsson, Blacker and the college kids (except Macwilliams) don't become NHLers, because obviously not all of them will pan out. That gives us...

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn
Granberg-Holzer
Gunnarson-Franson
Macwilliams

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10-24-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
But can anyone answer my previous question. Does anyone know if Finn, Gardiner, Percy, Rielly or Blacker can play either side? Left or Right?
Finn can play both sides.

Gardiner plays left side.

Percy plays left side.

Rielly plays left side.

Blacker plays right side.

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10-24-2012, 08:23 AM
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Interactif
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Finn can play both sides, but I prefer him on the right side.

Dion plays the right side.

So that leaves Percy, Gardiner, and Rielly on the left.

Granberg, Holzer, and Blacker all right D.

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10-24-2012, 09:13 AM
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Dougie Gilmour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishManSam View Post
Let's say, hypothetically speaking, Percy, Loov, Nilsson, Blacker and the college kids (except Macwilliams) don't become NHLers, because obviously not all of them will pan out. That gives us...

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn
Granberg-Holzer
Gunnarson-Franson
Macwilliams

You can't just give these guys the boot like Percy and Blacker. Who knows who we will have down the line they might be traded or other people might be moved we'll just have to wait and see.

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10-24-2012, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
At any rate the Leafs future D-corps is looking even better than when we had 1/2 of the starting 6 for Team Canada's WJC team.
Where have I seen this before, oh yes that's right, the 2003 Canadian WJC team where Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, and Brendan Bell comprised 1/2 the Canadian Team defense with Kyle Wellwood and Matt Stajan up front.

Colaiacovo lead the team in scoring 6 games 1-9-10 points (tied for 1st in tournament scoring overall) and Ian White was 3rd with 6 games 2-4-6 points for the Canadian team.

It was a time when Leafs prospect pool was said to be strong, and the future bright.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?fid=7686

Are Rielly, Finn and Percy the new Colaiacovo, White and Bell or our new era?

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10-24-2012, 09:21 AM
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I think Gunnarsson should be part of our future D-core, he has a very quiet upside about him that I think will get stronger as more years go on. He reminds me of Braydon Coburn.

What I would like for our D-core to be:

Phaneuf - Rielly
Gardiner - Gunnarsson
Finn - Blacker

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10-24-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Where have I seen this before, oh yes that's right, the 2003 Canadian WJC team where Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, and Brendan Bell comprised 1/2 the Canadian Team defense with Kyle Wellwood and Matt Stajan up front.

Colaiacovo lead the team in scoring 6 games 1-9-10 points (tied for 1st in tournament scoring overall) and Ian White was 3rd with 6 games 2-4-6 points for the Canadian team.

It was a time when Leafs prospect pool was said to be strong, and the future bright.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?fid=7686

Are Rielly, Finn and Percy the new Colaiacovo, White and Bell or our new era?
Drafting has seldom been a problem for the Leafs. Development hasn't been the greatest and many of the players just stayed overseas. If you check out some of the drafts from early this century many of the later round picks are still playing professional hockey.

Bell top CHL defender one year.

The more things change ...

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Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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10-24-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Where have I seen this before, oh yes that's right, the 2003 Canadian WJC team where Carlo Colaiacovo, Ian White, and Brendan Bell comprised 1/2 the Canadian Team defense with Kyle Wellwood and Matt Stajan up front.

Colaiacovo lead the team in scoring 6 games 1-9-10 points (tied for 1st in tournament scoring overall) and Ian White was 3rd with 6 games 2-4-6 points for the Canadian team.

It was a time when Leafs prospect pool was said to be strong, and the future bright.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/feature/?fid=7686

Are Rielly, Finn and Percy the new Colaiacovo, White and Bell or our new era?
I believe Alex Steen was a captain for Team Sweden that year as well. It was a golden age for the Leaf prospect pool lol. Funny, all of those guys have forged NHL careers of varying success (save for Brendan Bell).

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Old
10-24-2012, 09:42 AM
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if Mo Riles is the real deal and has greater potential than Gardiner i can see Gardiner being moved for our 1C.

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10-24-2012, 10:33 AM
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Rielly - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Finn

should be our top-4 for years to come. and will be a great one, too.

2 of them are already in our top-4, a third will be in there either this year or next year, and the 4th should be in there 2 years from now.

whoever fills in at the bottom - gunnar/blacker/percy/granberg/holzer/free agents - doesn't really matter too much.

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10-24-2012, 10:36 AM
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If we would've kept Steen people would keep quiet about the previous prospects. Ian White is far too under-sized to be considered a high end prospect before. He doesn't have the skating ability or the hockey IQ that Rielly or Gardiner has, and not only that but I'm a pretty sure he's a big party guy. (Reason he was traded out of Toronto?) Stajan was doing well here in Toronto, but then got traded. None of these guys had the upside of the prospects we had now. Scouting is far far advanced compared to before.

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