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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Hamilton or Toronto2/Markham

View Poll Results: Where
Hamilton 107 47.56%
GTA2/Markham 118 52.44%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-24-2012, 01:02 AM
  #76
CN_paladin
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Leafs won't be able to suck as badly as they did in the past half century if the GTA/Hamilton gets another team. Leafs owners simply won't let it happen.

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10-24-2012, 08:07 AM
  #77
Kingbobert
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hamilton, cause well i like the city
its people never treated me badly and its always been warm and welcoming to me
got a soft spot for them

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Old
10-24-2012, 09:43 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Much of the "rust-belt" has seen numbers in the city proper go down. That doesn't mean the metro area or what many people consider to be around Buffalo or under team controlled boundaries has not seen a huge spike.

For instance the five southeast counties in Michigan have more population than the state of Wisconsin. But people run around talking about how many people are moving out of Detroit. Yes people are leaving Michigan but the Detroit area is massive still in terms of population. So when people wonder why the baseball team spends like that or how Detroit could be a major sports town and just spew the tired old dead city line it proves they don't know the area very well.

I am not as sure about Buffalo, but shrinking population in city limits size doesn't always mean a downturn in the area fanbase.
My point was that since the city of Buffalo's population has steadily been dropping, it doesn't seem to suggest that amalgamations have taken place. Usually when an amalgamation takes place, the city will see an immediate jump in population as it annexes a surrounding town or suburb. Based on the population numbers and year-by-year census, there doesn't appear to be evidence of that, hence why I was asking.

FWIW, metropolitan Buffalo has also lost quite a bit of population since 1970, though no where near as bad as the city itself. The population in 1970 was 1.35 million; today it is 1.135 and still dropping at a rate of 3% per year.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:11 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Leafs won't be able to suck as badly as they did in the past half century if the GTA/Hamilton gets another team. Leafs owners simply won't let it happen.
The Leafs new owners are two of Canada's largest communication companies:

They can make money from this deal, where as the OTTP would've only lost potential money.

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10-24-2012, 11:14 AM
  #80
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So there is about 8 miles from Barclays to MSG, if Im correct. Yet there isnt any way of getting a 2nd team in Southern Ontario? Unbelievable.

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10-24-2012, 11:35 AM
  #81
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So there is about 8 miles from Barclays to MSG, if Im correct. Yet there isnt any way of getting a 2nd team in Southern Ontario? Unbelievable.
Well you know, New York City is a bigger hockey town and of course with a bigger population which we can assume consisted of millions of hockey fans.

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10-24-2012, 11:46 AM
  #82
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If Hamilton were serious, they'd have already performed the needed upgrades to their arena. As it were, they still might get a moved team, but not an expansion team.


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Old
10-24-2012, 11:54 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
If Hamilton were serious, they'd have already performed the needed upgrades to their arena. As it were, they still might get a moved team, but not an expansion team.


TOML
They aren't going to do that without having an NHL team lined-up: They already built it using millions of tax payers' dollars, just so that it could sit without an NHL team for 25+ years.


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 10-24-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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10-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #84
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hamilton, cause well i like the city
its people never treated me badly and its always been warm and welcoming to me
got a soft spot for them
Obviously you ain't no Torontonian.

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10-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #85
DuklaNation
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Well you know, New York City is a bigger hockey town and of course with a bigger population which we can assume consisted of millions of hockey fans.
NYC is bigger for sure but your assumption is even bigger. I would bet southern Ontario is a bigger hockey market.

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10-24-2012, 12:18 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
NYC is bigger for sure but your assumption is even bigger. I would bet southern Ontario is a bigger hockey market.
LOL... What assumption? I was responding to your logical question with an obviously inaccurate explanation.

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:23 PM
  #87
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If Hamilton were serious, they'd have already performed the needed upgrades to their arena. As it were, they still might get a moved team, but not an expansion team.


TOML
Look Copps Coliseum can be upgraded pretty quickly how quick how about 1 NHL. off season or 3 months . Reason why Copps can be upgraded that fast its all in its design where the roof can be lifted to make room for corprate boxes an extra seating . The reason why the city has not upgraded Copps yet is because the city has been burned by the NHL. so many times its not going to do anything until its a garrentee that Hamilton would get an NHL. team .

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Look Copps Coliseum can be upgraded pretty quickly how quick how about 1 NHL. off season or 3 months . Reason why Copps can be upgraded that fast its all in its design where the roof can be lifted to make room for corprate boxes an extra seating . The reason why the city has not upgraded Copps yet is because the city has been burned by the NHL. so many times its not going to do anything until its a garrentee that Hamilton would get an NHL. team .
And I would think that until there is some serious sign that the League is going to let a second team be located in the general area, Hamilton isn't going to make any unnecessary upgrades to try to convince the NHL that Hamilton should be the preferred option over Markham.

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:38 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Not enough population around London. Too far.
London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #90
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.
Kitchener is a better spot than London. Closer to the GTA (But still outside of Toronto), close enough to London to have STH from there.

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10-24-2012, 03:02 PM
  #91
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I would like to go to a Stanley Cup Parade in Toronto one day so I voted Toronto/Markham.

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Old
10-24-2012, 03:17 PM
  #92
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killion, re: copps.

It isnt sufficient to (permanently) house an NHL team today. It needs considerable work put into it. I think everyone here can agree with that.


To that point, i add that in recent history, the NHL (and the other major leagues) seem to be shying away from the whole "move the team, then figure out the arena situation" model. The NHL wants a complete arena, or at the very least a paid-for and rubber-stamped plan for a complete arena.

So when we get to 2015-2020 when the NHL is considering expansion, where in line do you think copps colisium (as it stands today) is behind newly completed Seattle Arena, the new Colisee in Quebec, and the new Markham Arena? Hamilton gets laughed at and told to come back when they're actually ready.

So hamilton needs to get their **** together, now, to have a proposal to compete with those three 3-8 years down the road when the time comes.

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10-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #93
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^ Agreed.

Plus, even a renovated Copps probably will look like chump change compared to new arenas in the QC and Seattle, not to mention a handful of other places that have newish places ready for an NHL team (albeit lacking in potential NHL ownership) like Houston and Portland.

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:00 PM
  #94
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my vote has Hamilton in the lead..

only logical solution to this problem is give Hamilton & Markham a team and kick the Leafs out.. am i rite

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.
they're both pretty small cities though, yes?

Hamilton's not huge by any means but its atleast 500,000


Last edited by Ryan34222: 10-24-2012 at 04:18 PM.
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10-24-2012, 04:10 PM
  #96
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Kev, this thread and the other are bleeding into one another. Might wanna merge them... but I'll ask you again; 1917's City Limits when the Constitution was drafted or 2012's? Its arbitrary as its ever changing, Toronto becoming a sprawling Megalopolis, Buffalo too has grown considerably since 1970, and therefore arguable.
No it hasn't.

Its geographic borders are the same now as they were then.

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10-24-2012, 04:26 PM
  #97
No Fun Shogun
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my vote has Hamilton in the lead..

only logical solution to this problem is give Hamilton & Markham a team and kick the Leafs out.. am i rite
Too bad your vote isn't one of the thirty that actually matter.

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:43 PM
  #98
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London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.
MARKHAM A BETTER LOCATION THAN HAMILTON FOR NHL. TEAM YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME Markham is about the worst place you can put an NHL. its to small , its will within MLSE. territory & Markham dose not have the infrastructure to support & maintain an NHL. team .

Hamilton is far better location because its bigger , has the infrastructure to support an NHL. team , CHEAPER to make happen , an airport less than 20 min. away , path of least resiestance teritory won't be as big an issue with Hamilton as it would Markham & last but not least Hamilton is a centralized location & can be reached by everyone from southwestern ontario , Hamilton area , Niagara Region , Kitchener Waterloo & even the GTA. .

Also when a 2nd NHL. team comes to southern ontario it is going to be a regional team for southern ontario & the team has to be able to draw from all parts southern ontario & that is why another NHL. team in southern ontario has to be in a centralized location & Hamilton is a centrelized location because it can be reached by everyone as for Markham it will only be able to draw from the GTA. & that is it because it is not a centrealized location & will be hard to draw from fans west of the GTA. .

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Old
10-24-2012, 04:49 PM
  #99
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You got to think regionaly & hamilton is a perfect place to put a regional nhl. Team & can be reached easly from all over southern ontario & the team can be called ontario as markham team would be called toronto & would only serve the gta. .

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10-24-2012, 04:57 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
^ Agreed.

Plus, even a renovated Copps probably will look like chump change compared to new arenas in the QC and Seattle, not to mention a handful of other places that have newish places ready for an NHL team (albeit lacking in potential NHL ownership) like Houston and Portland.
http://smr.newswire.ca/en/jim-balsil...copps-coliseum

It looks pretty good to me, brah.

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