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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part V: The "Back to square one" Edition

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Old
10-24-2012, 10:31 AM
  #526
Levitate
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Get a deal done this week or go away, forever.
Yeah this is really ****ing ********. This stupid league needs to stop with the ****ing lockouts all the time, it really just makes me want to see the NHL fail at this point

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10-24-2012, 10:35 AM
  #527
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Bettman is absolutely bad for hockey.. He's already admitted his first plan is to lock out the players, THEN negotiate. the lockout should be the LAST resort, but with Bettman its the FIRST resort.

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10-24-2012, 10:37 AM
  #528
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Bettman is absolutely bad for hockey.. He's already admitted his first plan is to lock out the players, THEN negotiate. the lockout should be the LAST resort, but with Bettman its the FIRST resort.
And where did he admit that?

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10-24-2012, 10:42 AM
  #529
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I don't understand why everything is "take it or leave it" scenario.

Why can't these ****ing clowns just sit in a room all day and negotiate? Is it that hard?

This is pathetic.

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10-24-2012, 10:43 AM
  #530
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Yeah this is really ****ing ********. This stupid league needs to stop with the ****ing lockouts all the time, it really just makes me want to see the NHL fail at this point
Maybe the government would deem the league "too big to fail" and throw some stimulus money their way. That'd help keep some teams afloat.

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10-24-2012, 11:09 AM
  #531
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I know a lot of fans wanted a resolution to the lockout this week but I was not in favor of this. This would have only been a short term solution and the same problems would still exist. I feel that instead of trying to rush a deadline both sides should cool their heads then sit down and work out a deal. Instead of trying to save a full season lets try to save the league!

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10-24-2012, 11:13 AM
  #532
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I know a lot of fans wanted a resolution to the lockout this week but I was not in favor of this. This would have only been a short term solution and the same problems would still exist. I feel that instead of trying to rush a deadline both sides should cool their heads then sit down and work out a deal. Instead of trying to save a full season lets try to save the league!
I really think you'll have to see Bettman replaced and other owners take over the BoG and reduce Jacobs' influence before you start seeing any kind of CBA work that goes beyond "reduce the cut that the players are making"

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10-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  #533
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The PA wanted to discuss the make whole provision with the NHL today but the NHL didn't want to meet to discuss it after the NHL indicated they wanted to address the make whole with the PA. Makes no sense. Gary said he would meet with the PA anytime and anywhere.

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10-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Bettman is absolutely bad for hockey.. He's already admitted his first plan is to lock out the players, THEN negotiate. the lockout should be the LAST resort, but with Bettman its the FIRST resort.
What should he have done here? (fortget about last lockout and just think about this situation)
He tried to negotiate last season and was told "not now" by Fehr. The owners had more urgency to try to get something done than players...Fact

So I assume you feel he should have started the season and allowed the players to play perhaps strike right before playoffs. (Let's not forget that Fehr employed this exact strategy once before).

I know that you don't actually think the NHLPA thought the owners would play this season without a CBA. That whole "we are willing to play" is Progpoganda / fluff for those willing to buy it.

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10-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #535
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If anyone of you see Bettman or Fehr in public, throw **** at them.

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10-24-2012, 11:41 AM
  #536
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This process went south with Bettman's first offer, so we can start all what ifs with that. HIS system failed. In good faith, to fix HIS system, the least he could do is offer to make good on contracts signed under HIS system. That's what Bettman could have done instead. The players aren't asking for some outrageous thing. Follow the NBA model and cap escrow. We are playing hockey if the owners can be gracious enough to concede that one issue in exchange for all the other givebacks.

It's not about legal, CBA language or morals. It's a negotiation. The players aren't crazy for wanting that one concession considering all the loses after record revenues.

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10-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #537
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Are we at the point yet where 50% or more of the constituents are not happy with the way their leadership is handling this?

If you are a player you can't be happy with where this stands now and the lack of effort being made to move this along and save paychecks.

I would think that a decent number of owners (certainly owners of teams that make money) want to get this thing done already as well.

That is probably what is causing this thing to drag. Owners sense player unrest and players sense the same amongst owners.

I am beginning to think that there eventually will be a preceived winner and loser in this thing based on who crumbles first. A couple of weeks ago I probably would have said "cooler heads prevail" and they come to an equitable deal.

Both sides want the KO here.

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10-24-2012, 12:09 PM
  #538
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It should be easy to do the 50/50 and make the contracts work.

Things that could make it work.
1. offer each team 1 amnesty buyout.
2. franchise player option
3. luxury tax for the teams over the new soft cap.
4. close the current loop holes exploited by the retirement contracts.

If it weren't for ego the thing would have been resolved already.

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10-24-2012, 12:19 PM
  #539
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I'm not saying that Forbes is absolutely right.

I'm saying, if we put on trial the question as to whether the NHL owners were making money, and the attorney for the league said "Here's the numbers are crunched by Forbes, we are losing money," that would be a decent amount of evidence.

Then if your counter to that is "Forbes is wrong, nobody is selling their teams, and plus, Pierre MacGuire said he talked to some dudes who say they are making money," well, that's a crappy case you have.

Who are those people? What do their numbers say?

Get me that evidence and I'll change my mind, if it is legit.
In that farce of a trial, an owner supposedly losing money but not looking to sell would be put up as a witness and asked "why are you fine with losing money?" With a few exceptions, the guys losing money would respond with "I make enough money in my other businesses" or "I'm not" or "I like owning a hockey team and the bottom line financials don't matter to me" or "I just bought this team, we will see where we are in a few years." There isn't another answer to that question. That's why I find this whole thing fallacious.

Mine and others conjecture, which is based entirely in logic, has as much weight as Forbes' estimates. Once again, they're not using real numbers. Do you want me to make a chart that has the teams I think are making money, complete with estimates of how much? Because I can do that, and it's going to be just as accurate as Forbes' chart.

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10-24-2012, 12:21 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by rangerfan_79 View Post
It should be easy to do the 50/50 and make the contracts work.

Things that could make it work.
1. offer each team 1 amnesty buyout.
2. franchise player option
3. luxury tax for the teams over the new soft cap.
4. close the current loop holes exploited by the retirement contracts.

If it weren't for ego the thing would have been resolved already.
The franchise player option would put the players share over 50%. None of those address the real issue with making current contract works, which is the exploding escrow percentage in an immediate reduction to 50%.

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10-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #541
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I don't understand why everything is "take it or leave it" scenario.

Why can't these ****ing clowns just sit in a room all day and negotiate? Is it that hard?

This is pathetic.
See: Human Nature

See: The legislative branch of the U.S. Goverment

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:42 PM
  #542
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Secret meeting?

http://www.insiderrumors.com/2012/no...n-on-the-line/

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10-24-2012, 12:42 PM
  #543
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Tawnos is right.

Forbes isnt the most trusted source for economic news. Their figures are an estimate.

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:52 PM
  #544
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#CBA Bettman on lockout: "Unfortunately, 82-game season does not seem to be a reality."

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:54 PM
  #545
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Funny.

Reading that I heard Paul Newman's voice in my head from SlapShot saying "Scouts?!!"

Lol

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10-24-2012, 12:55 PM
  #546
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I dunno if I trust that guy, about a week ago he appeared quite confident that a deal would have been reached by today.

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10-24-2012, 12:55 PM
  #547
Thirty One
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Hockey Insiderrr....

You got me excited.

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10-24-2012, 12:56 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Mine and others conjecture, which is based entirely in logic, has as much weight as Forbes' estimates.
I can't possibly agree with that.

So Forbes is just making things up, that's your position? Interesting.

Even if it is projections, I trust those projections more than raw speculation.

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10-24-2012, 01:00 PM
  #549
Tawnos
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I can't possibly agree with that.

So Forbes is just making things up, that's your position? Interesting.

Even if it is projections, I trust those projections more than raw speculation.
An estimate is not making things up and I never said it was. Neither am I when I say that 18 teams can't be losing money. Both are based on facts that exist. Forbes has been wrong about this stuff enough times to be extremely skeptical of their numbers.

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10-24-2012, 01:11 PM
  #550
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I can't possibly agree with that.
Once again, Forbes DOES NOT have access to the actual books and records. Their numbers are reported to them. If it was so easy to see an actual audited financial statement, then the players would have seen them a long time ago. Forbes DOES NOT have access to an actual audited financial statement, that has been signed off on by one of the Big Four accounting firms.

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