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Ilya Kovalchuk to play in Russia during lock-out

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:29 AM
  #851
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Originally Posted by Hell Zeon View Post
No it isn't. His contract will never look ridiculous when he's the face of the franchise and leading the Devils to success
Homer alert.

It's impossible for Kovalchuk to live up to that contract based on the sheer $$$ and years he got. He probably only has 3-4 prime years left

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10-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
It's not totally wrong, Kovalchuk's contract is going to look ridiculous in 4 years IMO.
I think it will take slightly longer than that. He can probably keep up his elite production until he's 35 or so, then he might start to decline but still be a valuable player. Until that drop off, he absolutely is worth a $6.67 M cap hit.

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10-24-2012, 11:46 AM
  #853
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Elias was 10th in the league in points last year at 35 years old. He's never been quite the goal scorer Kovalchuk has either. His contract now is like $600k grand less than Kovy's. Or his cap hit at least. Adjusted for inflation by the time Kovy is that age, his cap hit might be lower than that even. Unless they stop raising the cap altogether. Who the **** knows with all the **** going on now?

The years scares me more than the cap hit. Who knows by the time of his decline there may even be another star here getting paid more than him. Kinda like how Elias was our guy for years, and when he got older Kovy came along, and had a higher cap hit too.

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10-24-2012, 11:49 AM
  #854
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It absolutely hurts the devils. The hands are the last thing to go so anyone thinking the contract is crazy needs to realize you have to pay for elite talent.

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10-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #855
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Originally Posted by njdevilsjds View Post
It absolutely hurts the devils. The hands are the last thing to go so anyone thinking the contract is crazy needs to realize you have to pay for elite talent.
Don't you know Kovalchuk is not elite talent though?!

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10-24-2012, 12:05 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Yeah but what about losing Kovy, AND Parise? That's 68 goals right there out the window from last year. Not to mention more than half those goals the other probably had an assist on. We only scored 216 goals last year too. Our D also can't score for **** except Bryce in the playoffs, and Volch when it goes off someones helmet!

We had 2 less goals from D men in 2010/2011 in a season where the team scored 45 less goals. YUCK. Kinda unrelated, but we need more than 16 goals from defensemen. I'm pretty sure in 2010/2011 we were lowest in the league of goals scored by defensemen, as we were also the lowest scoring team period. I wouldn't be surprised if our D men were the lowest scoring last year too.
Good point about losing Parise too. However, those goals aren't simply gone. Parise's minutes will get filled by someone, or a combination of players, and while they probably won't score at the same G/60 rate, they'll replace some of those goals.

People should remember that if we put someone like Tedenby in Kovalchuk's minutes and with his linemates, he'd probably score 20 goals. That's why this analysis should always be done in terms of replacement value. Losing Kovalchuk isn't 38 goals down the drain, it's 38 goals minus whatever those replaced minutes produce.

There are obviously other things that factor into the argument (assists, defensive play), but the general idea holds.

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10-24-2012, 12:05 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Homer alert.

It's impossible for Kovalchuk to live up to that contract based on the sheer $$$ and years he got. He probably only has 3-4 prime years left
It isn't impossible at all. He got that money because he deserved it, and he can live up to it by winning the Stanley Cup. He was already 2 wins away from it in his 2nd try at the playoffs. This was with a terrible injury where he led the entire team in points and the team would have won the Cup if he wasn't injured.

He's on a pretty good pace, and I would be absolutely shocked if this Devils team didn't have at least one Cup in the next 5 years with Kovalchuk.

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10-24-2012, 12:12 PM
  #858
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I'd like to take a flyer on Tikhonov. He has decent size, instincts, and isn't bad in his own end. Obvious chemistry with Kovalchuk is a plus. Can play wing too.

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10-24-2012, 12:26 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I'd like to take a flyer on Tikhonov. He has decent size, instincts, and isn't bad in his own end. Obvious chemistry with Kovalchuk is a plus. Can play wing too.
I would like to see if we can get him too. Anybody who wants to play with Kovy, and can play with him is a good thing. What would we have to trade though? Obviously a D man, maybe D prospect too? Have to send a forward of some kind, and maybe a draft pick too.

If you wanna worry about how long Kovy stays reliable for though, then the minutes have to be decreased. He can not be playing 26 minutes a game, and for the duration of every PK, and PP. He's playing 26 minutes a night, because we have passengers on this team who are either not in good enough shape to take more than 4 minutes worth of shifts a game. Or because they are not competent enough to take more than 4 minute shifts, and really not even competent enough to take less than that.

For anybody who didn't want Marty playing 78 games a year because he crumbled in the playoffs, it's the same with Kovy getting all those minutes. We won't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the extra wear, and tear contributed to what happened to him during the playoffs.

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10-24-2012, 12:30 PM
  #860
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I'll take a cup in the next 5 NHL seasons. Although, I would say without a cup, the Kovy experiment was a failure. Many moons til we know though.

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10-24-2012, 12:42 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'll take a cup in the next 5 NHL seasons. Although, I would say without a cup, the Kovy experiment was a failure. Many moons til we know though.
I can't agree with that. Would you rather have kept Bergfors if we don't win in the next 5 years ? Every team has a contract like Kovy's on their books for the most part. Not in length, but in cap hit. Some contracts are stupid though.

Unless you mean without a Cup in Kovy's career it was a failure, and not in 5 years. Which then I apologize.

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10-24-2012, 12:54 PM
  #862
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Is it just me, or do they give out a lot of penalties in the KHL?

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10-24-2012, 01:06 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I can't agree with that. Would you rather have kept Bergfors if we don't win in the next 5 years ? Every team has a contract like Kovy's on their books for the most part. Not in length, but in cap hit. Some contracts are stupid though.

Unless you mean without a Cup in Kovy's career it was a failure, and not in 5 years. Which then I apologize.
No i meant the life of the contract.

And if w didn't make that trade, there's no reason we couldn't have made a different one so i won't get into

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10-24-2012, 02:07 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
No i meant the life of the contract.

And if w didn't make that trade, there's no reason we couldn't have made a different one so i won't get into
Fair enough. Bergfors did turn out to be a bust though after he left here. I also can't imagine what kind of a raise we would have given to Oduya this year had he not been traded. We probably wouldn't have kept Andy Greene. We may have never even gotten Mark Fayne up to the big club, and if we did it would have been harder for him to make it full time. Then again we probably wouldn't have signed both Tallinder, and Volchenkov. Only one of them.

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10-24-2012, 02:27 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I'd like to take a flyer on Tikhonov. He has decent size, instincts, and isn't bad in his own end. Obvious chemistry with Kovalchuk is a plus. Can play wing too.
I'd be ok with this too. He's looked pretty decent in the games I've watched, and I've tried to watch them all.

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10-24-2012, 02:33 PM
  #866
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Is this the first game Kovy had no points?

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10-24-2012, 02:48 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I'd like to take a flyer on Tikhonov. He has decent size, instincts, and isn't bad in his own end. Obvious chemistry with Kovalchuk is a plus. Can play wing too.
I always thought the Coyotes gave up on him a little too fast, and didn't develop him properly. He'd probably do better as a Devil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'll take a cup in the next 5 NHL seasons. Although, I would say without a cup, the Kovy experiment was a failure. Many moons til we know though.
I wouldn't judge it an outright failure if we don't get a Cup over the term of his deal, but I agree that having a Cup would make it an undeniable success. Kovalchuk is an elite player, and we did get him for pots and pans in trade, and we do have him for the remainder of his career at a fair cap hit. He has improved our team significantly, and improved his game significantly too.

If those improvements stay that way, and we make some more deep playoff runs with him leading the charge, I'd call it a qualified success, even if we don't win the Cup.

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10-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #868
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Also Kovy might not play this whole contract. Doesn't that have something to do with front loading? Designed in case he doesn't play the whole contract? If the stipulation in the CBA holds true though, that's bad news for us. Especially when they let other teams slide(Minnesota more recently) and already took care of us.

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10-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
No i meant the life of the contract.

And if w didn't make that trade, there's no reason we couldn't have made a different one so i won't get into
Are we any closer to a cup with Oduya, Bergfors, and Cormier? Perhaps we could have swung another big trade, but trades for player's of Ilya's ilk don't come along often.

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10-24-2012, 04:26 PM
  #870
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And i would argue those were not the only costs incurred through the Kovalchuk saga we are not done paying for, tangibly and otherwise . Those have been debated to death and i don't feel like arguing hypothetically.

That's not considering what players of his ilk contribute, but i like kovy so i won't go there.

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10-24-2012, 04:37 PM
  #871
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10-24-2012, 04:50 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'll take a cup in the next 5 NHL seasons. Although, I would say without a cup, the Kovy experiment was a failure. Many moons til we know though.
I would say that although a cup will most likely happen it's not necessary to determine whether Kovalchuk was worth it or not. Kovalchuk is definitely worth it, the real problem is everyone else on the team is actually worth it. You don't question your best player, especially because Kovalchuk has been that ever since he's joined and has proved it with his stats.

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10-24-2012, 05:07 PM
  #873
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What's ilk mean?
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10-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #874
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
And i would argue those were not the only costs incurred through the Kovalchuk saga we are not done paying for, tangibly and otherwise . Those have been debated to death and i don't feel like arguing hypothetically.

That's not considering what players of his ilk contribute, but i like kovy so i won't go there.
There weren't that many costs. A bunch of players that were easily replaced and a couple picks, not that big of a deal for a franchise player.

The fact that he elevated this team to being 2 wins away from a cup in such a short span is amazing. Also considering the fact that the team was built around Goaltending prior to him and it would have just culminated in a bunch of 1st/2nd round exits (or not making the playoffs at all) means that he's drastically changed the franchise forever.

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10-25-2012, 01:45 PM
  #875
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