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The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
10-24-2012, 02:41 PM
  #251
Cogburn
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I think the asking price should be around Gardiner and a 1st.

I also think the Leafs need to decide if they want to make a run for the playoffs/shot at the Cup this year or next year, or if you prefer to miss the playoffs but accumulate more high draft picks and draft potential future cornerstones of your organization. Either direction isn't a bad move, but would drastically alter your position when discussing trades.
One position, going for higher picks, completely negates the need for Lu.

The other means trading futures for proven players.

One or the other makes fine sense, but don't try to have your cake and eat it too. If you're asking about Lu, including second tier players from either category makes no sense.

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10-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #252
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Will do.
Enjoy cap hell or giving him away for free plus paying his salary.

New CBA is going to bring the lols
Or just getting rid of Ballard & Malhotra

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10-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #253
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You aren't getting Gardiner. You may get Kadri + a roster player (Mac/Kule/Bozak). But, that's the most I can see Burke willing to give up.

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10-24-2012, 02:46 PM
  #254
Vankiller Whale
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Can I ask a stupid question? If a team is over the salary cap, what happens?

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10-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #255
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Can I ask a stupid question? If a team is over the salary cap, what happens?
Not exactly sure myself, but maybe a penalty forcing the team to forfeit draft picks or something?

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10-24-2012, 02:55 PM
  #256
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Not exactly sure myself, but maybe a penalty forcing the team to forfeit draft picks or something?
Because I think I heard you simply disallow players from playing. For goaltending though, it wouldn't really be an issue. I might be completely off-base though.

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10-24-2012, 03:00 PM
  #257
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Can I ask a stupid question? If a team is over the salary cap, what happens?
Pick forfeits and Big fines against your cap. It is hard to get over the cap as the nhl would just turn down the transaction.
(Other then the 10% rules)

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10-24-2012, 03:05 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Because I think I heard you simply disallow players from playing. For goaltending though, it wouldn't really be an issue. I might be completely off-base though.
Naw it would be a **** storm.
Gm would get suspended, fined to hell and lose picks.

You can only be 10% over .... if you can't fix that by the deadline the nhl would ****.

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10-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #259
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Pick forfeits and Big fines against your cap. It is hard to get over the cap as the nhl would just turn down the transaction.
Exactly, the NHL just won't allow any transaction that get you over the cap. The only time this may be an issue is moving from the offseason (where you can be 10% over I believe) into the regular season. I'm sure teams are told to get under or else. I'm not sure what or else would be though.

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10-24-2012, 03:20 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Exactly, the NHL just won't allow any transaction that get you over the cap. The only time this may be an issue is moving from the offseason (where you can be 10% over I believe) into the regular season. I'm sure teams are told to get under or else. I'm not sure what or else would be though.
But if the cap were to contract next year, and we hadn't made any transactions...

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10-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
But if the cap were to contract next year, and we hadn't made any transactions...
Teams would have time and options.
But that my friend is when the lols happen.
Especially for all those long term, low cap hit retirement contracts.


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10-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #262
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Someone like Jake Gardiner who had a nice rookie season, is still far from being a Norris candidate. I don't see why Gardiner, Ashton and a 1 for Luongo is such an unrealistic deal. Luongo is still the best player in the trade, but the Canucks get a nice young useful asset for today and some futures.
Toronto didn't want to trade Jake Gardiner for Rick Nash, so why would Burke change his mind and trade him for Luongo? Plus I remember reading last week that Carter Ashton was also not going to be included if Luongo comes to Toronto. I agree that by his name alone Luongo would be the best player in any trade he is involved in. However the fact is his contract is a major reason why Mike Gillis won't get the type of players, prospects or draft picks he wants. Plus since Luongo asked for a trade in that situation the team trading that player knows they won't get a great value in return.

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10-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Toronto didn't want to trade Jake Gardiner for Rick Nash, so why would Burke change his mind and trade him for Luongo? Plus I remember reading last week that Carter Ashton was also not going to be included if Luongo comes to Toronto. I agree that by his name alone Luongo would be the best player in any trade he is involved in. However the fact is his contract is a major reason why Mike Gillis won't get the type of players, prospects or draft picks he wants. Plus since Luongo asked for a trade in that situation the team trading that player knows they won't get a great value in return.
Where? Although personally I'd be glad. Never wanted Ashton anyways.

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10-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Teams would have time and options.
But that my friend is when the lols happen.
Especially for all those long term, low cap hit retirement contracts.

Lols? Are you 15? Anyways that's not the point. The retirement contracts do not hurt the team until the player retires assuming the NHL gets its way on the proposal. These players are not retiring next year and in fact the low cap hit helps teams if the cap contracts. Another consideration is if the NHL grows at 5% a year and we start out at 59.9 mil cap by the time some of these players retire the cap could be 80 mil +. In the end a 5.3 mil cap hit, like Luongo, would affect a team far less in the future then it does now. Therefore some these long term deals are not as bad as some assume even with the consideration of the newly proposed CBA.

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10-24-2012, 03:46 PM
  #265
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Where? Although personally I'd be glad. Never wanted Ashton anyways.
Article from The Hockey News which was posted last week.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...the-Leafs.html

Quote:
The Leafs won't part with Gardiner and seem unlikely to part with Frattin. Burke is also reportedly unwilling to move Carter Ashton.

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10-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #266
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Bozak and a 2nd still seems like the most realistic offer.

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10-24-2012, 03:53 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Article from The Hockey News which was posted last week.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...the-Leafs.html
Well we knew they wouldn't part with Gardiner.
Now it's unlikely that they will part with Frattin and they are reluctant to include Ashton.
I'm surprised that Burke didn't say that he was balking at include former allstar defenceman Mike Komisarek.

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10-24-2012, 03:54 PM
  #268
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Bozak and a 2nd still seems like the most realistic offer.
It's definitely the most 'realistic' for Leaf fans.

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10-24-2012, 03:54 PM
  #269
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Lols? Are you 15? Anyways that's not the point. The retirement contracts do not hurt the team until the player retires assuming the NHL gets its way on the proposal. These players are not retiring next year and in fact the low cap hit helps teams if the cap contracts. Another consideration is if the NHL grows at 5% a year and we start out at 59.9 mil cap by the time some of these players retire the cap could be 80 mil +. In the end a 5.3 mil cap hit, like Luongo, would affect a team far less in the future then it does now. Therefore some these long term deals are not as bad as some assume even with the consideration of the newly proposed CBA.
ha
You're right being stuck with the now 33 y/o Luo's contract till 2022 ain't that bad ....

The only good thing from a Van standpoint is they could be stuck with the caphit after retirement even if he is traded .... That at least makes him tradable .... Thats a good thing ..right.. ?

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10-24-2012, 03:57 PM
  #270
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Gardiner, for the Canucks anyway. You're asking for a star player that will have a huge impact on your team, and you want to give table scraps back. What on earth is realistic about that?
table scraps? this reeks of homerism. Kadri and Frattin are not table scraps. That's ridiculous. Gardiner is a guy who was pro-rated in the second half to put up 50 points. He's not gonna get traded nor should he. Luongo put up a SV% last season that was only a few points above the league average and tied for 12th with a few other guys. Does that scream star to you? Seems like middle of the pack for starters, which it actually is.

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10-24-2012, 03:59 PM
  #271
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That logic doesn't really work though.
You can't use Keenan's decision to trade Luongo as the standard for Luongo's value. I have more faith in Gillis' abilities as a GM to bargain for a reasonable deal that helps our team.
Oh absolutely. I have a lot of respect for Gillis and his abilities. I don't think he will go for scraps by any means, I'm just not sharing in the optimism of some that he will fetch a large return. Gillis is a great GM but it takes two to make a trade and I can't see Burke giving up Gardiner.

I think both Vancouver fans and the fans of Toronto (if he goes there) will be underwhelmed with the deal based on the polarized opinions here.

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10-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #272
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table scraps? this reeks of homerism. Kadri and Frattin are not table scraps. That's ridiculous. Gardiner is a guy who was pro-rated in the second half to put up 50 points. He's not gonna get traded nor should he. Luongo put up a SV% last season that was only a few points above the league average and tied for 12th with a few other guys. Does that scream star to you? Seems like middle of the pack for starters, which it actually is.
Luongo's sv% in October: .869%

The next months are: .924, .928, .932...

Notice a pattern? If you think Luongo is an average goalie, think again. Our team in general has a slow start because we use the first few regular season games as a preseason.

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10-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I think the asking price should be around Gardiner and a 1st.

I also think the Leafs need to decide if they want to make a run for the playoffs/shot at the Cup this year or next year, or if you prefer to miss the playoffs but accumulate more high draft picks and draft potential future cornerstones of your organization. Either direction isn't a bad move, but would drastically alter your position when discussing trades.
Canucks fans are out of there minds if they believe Toronto would trade Gardner and a 1st in any deal other than for a superstar center. That is how highly they covet both assets. Why would a goalie with maybe 3 decent years left, who is not wanted any more in Vancouver, has a tough long term contract,
could not win a cup despite having a very strong team in front of him, and would prefer to play in the outskirts of Florida, command such a bounty from the Leafs? My guess is that Gillis will either have to accept much less to move him to Florida, or just keep him until Luongo demands to be traded to anybody from a list of 5 or 6 teams like Rick Nash finally did

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10-24-2012, 04:03 PM
  #274
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ha
You're right being stuck with the now 33 y/o Luo's contract till 2022 ain't that bad ....

The only good thing from a Van standpoint is they could be stuck with the caphit after retirement even if he is traded .... That at least makes him tradable .... Thats a good thing ..right.. ?
What is your point exactly? He is a top 10 goalie at minimum and there have been 5 teams interested + a mystery team. Goalies on average hit their prime and play the longest compared to any other position. Follow some of your own logic and stop running your mouth.

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10-24-2012, 04:08 PM
  #275
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Canucks fans are out of there minds if they believe Toronto would trade Gardner and a 1st in any deal other than for a superstar center. That is how highly they covet both assets. Why would a goalie with maybe 3 decent years left, who is not wanted any more in Vancouver, has a tough long term contract,
could not win a cup despite having a very strong team in front of him, and would prefer to play in the outskirts of Florida, command such a bounty from the Leafs? My guess is that Gillis will either have to accept much less to move him to Florida, or just keep him until Luongo demands to be traded to anybody from a list of 5 or 6 teams like Rick Nash finally did
Not many Canuck fans expect that to be the return.

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