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Around the NHL (Part XXXIX): (1/9: Leafs fire Brian Burke as GM; Dave Nonis steps in)

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10-24-2012, 02:36 PM
  #401
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I just heard they were actually contemplating the name "The Brooklyn Marinara".

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10-24-2012, 02:36 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post

The Russian and Ratner will purchase them...before they move in.
I sure hope you are right. Second to what happened today, this would be the best possible thing to happen for this team off the ice.

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10-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #403
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Having the 3 teams in the area so close by is a good thing. I'm very happy the Isles are remaining in the area.

Its like what baseball was from 1903-1958. Giants (rangers), Dodgers (Isles) and Yankees (Devils).
How did that work out?

Two of the teams left and the Mets were expansion team added to replace the two NL teams. 1 team and not 2 teams.

Three hockey teams so close to each other is a good thing? Hockey is the 4th sport in this market.

3 hockey teams within miles of each other and 1 team in Toronto. Makes sense.

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10-24-2012, 02:53 PM
  #404
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The team needs to be good in order for there to be continued interest. The building will be a novelty. Having a hockey team might pique some interest, but the team needs to be good for sustained success. Otherwise, it's the same Isles.
I agree.

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10-24-2012, 02:55 PM
  #405
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How did that work out?

Two of the teams left and the Mets were expansion team added to replace the two NL teams. 1 team and not 2 teams.

Three hockey teams so close to each other is a good thing? Hockey is the 4th sport in this market.

3 hockey teams within miles of each other and 1 team in Toronto. Makes sense.
I would say that there were semantics involved regarding the MLB teams that's very different from these NHL teams.

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10-24-2012, 03:01 PM
  #406
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good for the isles. long island is beyond irrelevant in terms of the national scene. i wonder what they'll call the team.

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10-24-2012, 03:02 PM
  #407
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good for the isles. long island is beyond irrelevant in terms of the national scene. i wonder what they'll call the team.
Already announced it will stay as New York Islanders.

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10-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #408
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Economics 101.

Easier to continue with an existing product name than start a new one entirely.

Move the team where its viable and accessible, but keep the name. No reason not to.

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10-24-2012, 03:17 PM
  #409
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I would say that there were semantics involved regarding the MLB teams that's very different from these NHL teams.
*circumstances

Both the Giants and Dodgers were trying to build new stadiums. The city wouldn't let them. The Giants were already planning to move out of town before deciding to go to SF.

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10-24-2012, 03:35 PM
  #410
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Looks like I have a reason to go to the Barclays center now.

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10-24-2012, 03:48 PM
  #411
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Also if Isles can get good deal they should move farm team to old place.
I would love to be there for that conversation.

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10-24-2012, 03:48 PM
  #412
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I sure hope you are right. Second to what happened today, this would be the best possible thing to happen for this team off the ice.
Wang will want to be the owner as they move in, he's got the ego for it and will want to be the owner that moved them and get the credit for it al (which he deserves).

Hopefully he sells sooner than later.

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10-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #413
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I find it ironic that they make this announcement today....when the Brooklyn Nets will face the NY Knicks at the Coliseum tonight

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10-24-2012, 04:10 PM
  #414
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NYC metro area could easily support 3 MLB teams now. As someone who remembers the last years of the Giants and Dodgers rivalry, that for me has always been the ideal and has been the template for the Rangers Isles rivalry. Both the Giants and Dodgers needed new stadiums. Both the Polo Grounds and Ebbetts Field had less than 1000 parking spots at a time we were shifting to a car culture and many fans were moving to suburbia. The Polo Grounds, on the outskirts of Harlem, was perceived to be in an unsafe area. I never found it such when I saw the Giants and Mets play there.

The Isles have always been one of the most unique experiments in all sports: could a real suburban team, not a city team with an arena in suburbia, survive suported by suburban infrastructure , business, and media. The answer seemed to be yes when times were good (for example when Grumman was still in business or when the team was stellar), but in the long run the answer would seem to be no.

Florida is a strange place: Broward, Dade, and Palm Beach need to be thought of as one area. It is a totally car driven culture without real mass transit. Sunrise, with excellent highway connections with the Sawgrass Expressway, is somewhat central to the 3 counties. No location there would be perfect. I've been to games at Sunrise and before that in Miami. Like Tawnos, I could see the arena from the catwalk of my parent's condo in Lauderhill. I hope both the Isles and Panthers survive but wonder whether each will if this absurd lockout, driven completely by the greed of the owners, lasts more than a year.

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10-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #415
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You're clearly clueless I see. A bigger market? You do realize you are in rangers territory, right? So that "more of a population" you speak of, are already rangers fans and considering how close they are to MSG are not converting to Islanders fans....LOL not to mention you have a losing team. The Rangers who have currently spent years rebuilding to have a team that is now a cup contender orrr the lowly islanders who have been rebuilding for 10 years, squandering top draft picks, handing out worse contracts than the rangers which is hard to do, and not garnering any attendance. I highly doubt it attracts free agents more, especially when the team continually misses the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
They're walking straight into Rangers territory. Long Island has Rangers fans as well, but you're now in the city. The Islanders still won't have the money the Rangers have to shell out to those FA's. I will agree it's more attractive, but not more attractive than playing for an Original 6 team, playing in the heart of the city and playing in MSG.
I love this "Rangers territory" mentality since it makes me giggle.
I had a game on my PC a while back called "Rise of Nations" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Nations
It is a real time strategy game. If I were to enter the bad guy's land, I encounter "attrition damage." My troops and vehicles would slowly lose hit points/health unless I had a supply wagon with me.

Yes, while NYC/Brooklyn is more Ranger friendly, it doesn't mean the Isles will "lose hit points/health" or start the game one goal down. (Maybe 1 minute into the game, they'll be one goal down, but that is a different story.)

What demonstrative harm will happen to the Isles by playing in "Ranger territory"?

Really? Evey single person in that more population is already a Ranger fan? I wish I knew how that worked!


All the petty bickering about if Brooklyn is or isn't on the Island is arguing about semantics. When I was in Australia I had a hamburger. It was ham, not beef. (It sure was odd!) But, who has that wrong? Who has that right? Well, down on the menu was a portion for "beefburgers"...so...there's that!


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Old
10-24-2012, 04:34 PM
  #416
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LA Lakers, Utah JAZZ.

The precedant is there for teams to keep their names when they move even when the name has nothing to do with the city they are located in.
YES! How many lakes are there in LA?

Plus, one can't forget the NY Highlanders and the (original) Baltimore Orioles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Yor...281903-1912.29

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10-24-2012, 04:39 PM
  #417
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I love this "Rangers territory" mentality since it makes me giggle.
I had a game on my PC a while back called "Rise of Nations" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Nations
It is a real time strategy game. If I were to enter the bad guy's land, I encounter "attrition damage." My troops and vehicles would slowly lose hit points/health unless I had a supply wagon with me.

Yes, while NYC/Brooklyn is more Ranger friendly, it doesn't mean the Isles will "lose hit points/health" or start the game one goal down. (Maybe 1 minute into the game, they'll be one goal down, but that is a different story.)

What demonstrative harm will happen to the Isles by playing in "Ranger territory"?

Really? Evey single person in that more population is already a Ranger fan? I wish I knew how that worked!


All the petty bickering about if Brooklyn is or isn't on the Island is arguing about semantics. When I was in Australia I had a hamburger. It was ham, not beef. (It sure was odd!) But, who has that wrong? Who has that right? Well, down on the menu was a portion for "beefburgers"...so...there's that!
IMO it's really not about the harm it will do to the islanders organization since they couldn't be doing worse than they already are. It is more about the fact that to move your team away from where the majority of your fan base resides to an area that is predominantly Rangers fans is a high risk move. The point was you already had trouble trying to get islanders fans to the coliseum every night in area that is pretty accessible and where the tickets have been cheap. Now you expect those same fans to hop on a train or get in their car to travel further and pay a lot more? It is going to be extremely tough. That brooklyn area is predominantly rangers fans because of its location in relation to MSG. Plus it is more of a city like mentality in that area, making it more fitting to be a rangers fan (now this is prior to the islanders moving there). Our point was and is that you are not going to see a lot of islanders fans make that commute nor are there going to be islanders fans sprouting up out of the ground in brooklyn to attend games.

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10-24-2012, 04:46 PM
  #418
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Wow, I have to think this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Isles franchise.

Brooklyn? I mean i'm happy for the true Isles fans, the ones who actually support the team and buy tickets a couple times a year, they can still do that but the casual fans? They aren't going on a train/subway to see the Isles. They will probably lose a ton of loyal season ticket holders as well because they aren't going to want to go take the train every single game.

Another thing is the arena is so tiny! Isles averaged 13,000 fans a game last season, this arena only holds 14500, so even when they get good again they won't be bringing in as big of a profit as they could, say if they had 19,000 seats.

Another thing, they just moved away from where most of their fans are, Long Island, they moved into an area filled with Ranger/Devils fans. That will hurt sales as well.

Their firs year they will probably make out ok, since its a new building, and everyone will want to catch a game there, but after that, I have some series doubts on how good financially the team is going to do there.

It would have been best for the league as a whole, if they had moved up to Canada, where the rink will sell out every game and merchandise would be sold out everywhere, pumping more and more money into the league. As much as Isles fans dont want to hear that.

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10-24-2012, 04:47 PM
  #419
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IMO it's really not about the harm it will do to the islanders organization since they couldn't be doing worse than they already are. It is more about the fact that to move your team away from where the majority of your fan base resides to an area that is predominantly Rangers fans is a high risk move. The point was you already had trouble trying to get islanders fans to the coliseum every night in area that is pretty accessible and where the tickets have been cheap. Now you expect those same fans to hop on a train or get in their car to travel further and pay a lot more? It is going to be extremely tough. That brooklyn area is predominantly rangers fans because of its location in relation to MSG. Plus it is more of a city like mentality in that area, making it more fitting to be a rangers fan (now this is prior to the islanders moving there). Our point was and is that you are not going to see a lot of islanders fans make that commute nor are there going to be islanders fans sprouting up out of the ground in brooklyn to attend games.
I agree with all that, but I still find it funny "Ranger territory" is akin to being behind the Iron Curtain or something.

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10-24-2012, 04:51 PM
  #420
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Wow, I have to think this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Isles franchise.

Brooklyn? I mean i'm happy for the true Isles fans, the ones who actually support the team and buy tickets a couple times a year, they can still do that but the casual fans? They aren't going on a train/subway to see the Isles. They will probably lose a ton of loyal season ticket holders as well because they aren't going to want to go take the train every single game.

Another thing is the arena is so tiny! Isles averaged 13,000 fans a game last season, this arena only holds 14500, so even when they get good again they won't be bringing in as big of a profit as they could, say if they had 19,000 seats.

Another thing, they just moved away from where most of their fans are, Long Island, they moved into an area filled with Ranger/Devils fans. That will hurt sales as well.

Their firs year they will probably make out ok, since its a new building, and everyone will want to catch a game there, but after that, I have some series doubts on how good financially the team is going to do there.

It would have been best for the league as a whole, if they had moved up to Canada, where the rink will sell out every game and merchandise would be sold out everywhere, pumping more and more money into the league. As much as Isles fans dont want to hear that.
Totally disagree. The move might be tough for Suffolk fans, but for people in Nassau, they can take the LIRR to Atlantic Terminal. They'll have no problem getting the fans to Brooklyn- it's not that far away. I mean, there's plenty of hardcore Rangers fans from the Island who get into Manhattan.

The move to Brooklyn means that they'll start attracting a new market. They'll get more corporate sponsors with the move, they'll attract Wall Street types for whom it's a quick subway ride away, and they'll be able to consistently sell out Barclay's. They'll eventually end up with more of a Winnipeg model than that of a large market team. However, it will be new, it will get people in there, and they'll start making money. It's definitely good for the Islanders, and by extension good for the Rangers.

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10-24-2012, 04:52 PM
  #421
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When I was in Australia I had a hamburger. It was ham, not beef. (It sure was odd!) But, who has that wrong? Who has that right?
They're wrong. I'm right.

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10-24-2012, 04:53 PM
  #422
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Totally disagree. The move might be tough for Suffolk fans, but for people in Nassau, they can take the LIRR to Atlantic Terminal. They'll have no problem getting the fans to Brooklyn- it's not that far away. I mean, there's plenty of hardcore Rangers fans from the Island who get into Manhattan.

The move to Brooklyn means that they'll start attracting a new market. They'll get more corporate sponsors with the move, they'll attract Wall Street types for whom it's a quick subway ride away, and they'll be able to consistently sell out Barclay's. They'll eventually end up with more of a Winnipeg model than that of a large market team. However, it will be new, it will get people in there, and they'll start making money. It's definitely good for the Islanders, and by extension good for the Rangers.
Thats a good few points i didnt think of, I guess it could work out either way, it will be interesting to say the least.

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10-24-2012, 04:54 PM
  #423
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Jim Boomer Gorden, on NHL Home Ice (who is a huge Islander fan), said he is happy overall with the move...but fears that Ranger-Islander games will draw too many Ranger fans. I felt like calling in and saying "Have you been to the Coliseum lately?"

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10-24-2012, 04:55 PM
  #424
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IMO it's really not about the harm it will do to the islanders organization since they couldn't be doing worse than they already are. It is more about the fact that to move your team away from where the majority of your fan base resides to an area that is predominantly Rangers fans is a high risk move. The point was you already had trouble trying to get islanders fans to the coliseum every night in area that is pretty accessible and where the tickets have been cheap. Now you expect those same fans to hop on a train or get in their car to travel further and pay a lot more? It is going to be extremely tough. That brooklyn area is predominantly rangers fans because of its location in relation to MSG. Plus it is more of a city like mentality in that area, making it more fitting to be a rangers fan (now this is prior to the islanders moving there). Our point was and is that you are not going to see a lot of islanders fans make that commute nor are there going to be islanders fans sprouting up out of the ground in brooklyn to attend games.
On a 25 year contract, they'll have plenty of fans in Brooklyn by the end of it. Also, it might be a risk, but Wang is also going to open his wallet now, so some increased excitement around the team might mitigate that somewhat.

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10-24-2012, 04:57 PM
  #425
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The move to Brooklyn means that they'll start attracting a new market. They'll get more corporate sponsors with the move, they'll attract Wall Street types for whom it's a quick subway ride away, and they'll be able to consistently sell out Barclay's. They'll eventually end up with more of a Winnipeg model than that of a large market team. However, it will be new, it will get people in there, and they'll start making money. It's definitely good for the Islanders, and by extension good for the Rangers.
Didn't the Devils think the same thing?

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