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C Aleksander Barkov - Tampere Tappara, FEL (2013 Draft) - Part II

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Old
10-20-2012, 12:26 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
no stream???

game is on. After the first period no points for Barkov. It seems he and his line are struggling now after the hot start. Barkov may fall quite a bit if this ***** continues-.
Are you serious? Up to the time of this post he had 1 game and 1 period scoreless. So you expect Barkov to keep up this 1.5ppg pace?

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10-20-2012, 12:35 PM
  #77
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Are you serious? Up to the time of this post he had 1 game and 1 period scoreless. So you expect Barkov to keep up this 1.5ppg pace?
Barkov is talented kid, but Im pretty confident he is going to be top10 drafted player after 2013 draft, not top2-3 like ppl here seems to think.

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10-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #78
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Are you serious? Up to the time of this post he had 1 game and 1 period scoreless. So you expect Barkov to keep up this 1.5ppg pace?
I'm **** serious. It is obvious that Barkov is slowing down now and will be under PPG soon, he is only 17 after all playing in men's pro league. He cannot keep that PPG+ pace
any longer. And his team sucks, too. It won't help things. The draft is very deep and this will affect his draft status. So, I think he will go in top 10 but not in top 5, like EKie states above.

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10-24-2012, 10:35 AM
  #79
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Tappara is very close to acquire JVR in their line up. Future linemate for Barkov? They already acquired Kurtis Foster. It would be interesting to see if Barkov and JVR can create some chemistry and TOR ends up as high pick. Now Phil Kessel to tappara

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10-24-2012, 10:50 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Tappara is very close to acquire JVR in their line up. Future linemate for Barkov? They already acquired Kurtis Foster. It would be interesting to see if Barkov and JVR can create some chemistry and TOR ends up as high pick. Now Phil Kessel to tappara
James Van Riemsdyk could give some boost to Barkov who is slumping pretty badly rite now. If not, then Barov is doomed to fall in draft rankings. His honeymoon with Lady Fortuna is over.

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10-24-2012, 10:55 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
James Van Riemsdyk could give some boost to Barkov who is slumping pretty badly rite now. If not, then Barov is doomed to fall in draft rankings. His honeymoon with Lady Fortuna is over.
Maybe you just expect too much from a 17 year old?

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10-24-2012, 11:01 AM
  #82
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Maybe you just expect too much from a 17 year old?
No. I have been watching most of Tapparas games this season and I`d say he is as good as we think he is! The thing is - he is playing on a ****** team with an agitator and a featherweight as linemates. The opposing teams just put their best "coats" on Barkov and they have the line taken out.
Best example was against TPS this weekend. I was on place in HK-areena watching the game. Barkov was taken out by 2 TPS players mostly and his linemates didnt do ****. I`m pretty sure he would get going again if he got players who actually can play hockey as linemates...

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10-24-2012, 11:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jonlin View Post
No. I have been watching most of Tapparas games this season and I`d say he is as good as we think he is! The thing is - he is playing on a ****** team with an agitator and a featherweight as linemates. The opposing teams just put their best "coats" on Barkov and they have the line taken out.
Best example was against TPS this weekend. I was on place in HK-areena watching the game. Barkov was taken out by 2 TPS players mostly and his linemates didnt do ****. I`m pretty sure he would get going again if he got players who actually can play hockey as linemates...
This might be part of the problem, but then again his line had very good start to the season, so, things are cooling down now. JVR could nevertheless be a part of the solution.

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10-24-2012, 12:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
James Van Riemsdyk could give some boost to Barkov who is slumping pretty badly rite now. If not, then Barov is doomed to fall in draft rankings. His honeymoon with Lady Fortuna is over.
2 games without points = slumping? Besides, he hasn't even played for nearly a week, Tappara sure has odd game schedule.

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10-24-2012, 02:04 PM
  #85
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What are his stats ?

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10-24-2012, 02:05 PM
  #86
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2 games without points = slumping? Besides, he hasn't even played for nearly a week, Tappara sure has odd game schedule.
Red flags are there. All the signs of the greatest slump ever: a) the team is downright bad, it's even worse, it sucks. b) his linemates are no goalscorers or playmakers, Barkov must be both- c) barkov had luck with many of his early goals, now it's over, d) the pressure on 17 year old as team's # 1 C, e) the pressure due to the upcoming draft f) simply his age

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10-24-2012, 02:14 PM
  #87
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Red flags are there. All the signs of the greatest slump ever: a) the team is downright bad, it's even worse, it sucks. b) his linemates are no goalscorers or playmakers, Barkov must be both- c) barkov had luck with many of his early goals, now it's over, d) the pressure on 17 year old as team's # 1 C, e) the pressure due to the upcoming draft f) simply his age
Barkov has been very unlucky that his team mates aren't capable to score from his set ups. I've seen alot of set ups where the goal is half empty and they aren't capable to score. Barkov has had maybe 1 lucky goal this year against hifk. I'd want you to post more of his lucky goals. I would say that he is just as unlucky as lucky. I doubt that you have watched his every game and i can tell you that sating that his success is all about luck is bs. He has just turned 17 he has 2 game as pointless and it's like end of the world for you. There will be longer stretch where he won't score points. Even Mikael Granlund slowed down last year after his very very dominant start. I would be suprised if Barkov ends up as an PPG player but if he's close to that then it is phenomenal for 17 year old kid playing complete game. Calling 2 games without points as an slump is kind of stupid when you think that he had 4 games point streak before that. He's been very consistent there have been about 4 games where he have been pointless this year so far which is very impressive for 17 year old.


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10-24-2012, 02:19 PM
  #88
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What are his stats ?


Kausi Joukkue O M S P R ± YV AV VM
2011-12 Tappara 32 7 9 16 4 5 1 0 0
2012-13 Tappara 15 9 8 17 0 5 5 0 0
SM-liiga yhteensä 47 16 17 33 4 10 6 0 0

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10-24-2012, 02:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
Red flags are there. All the signs of the greatest slump ever: a) the team is downright bad, it's even worse, it sucks. b) his linemates are no goalscorers or playmakers, Barkov must be both- c) barkov had luck with many of his early goals, now it's over, d) the pressure on 17 year old as team's # 1 C, e) the pressure due to the upcoming draft f) simply his age

a) Correct
b) Correct
c) No. Have u followed Tappara much? He would have more points if been lucky...
d) No. He is calm as ice. I haven`t seen pressure being a factor here
e) Look -> d)
f) He is more mature than the whole team (or atleast it looks that way...)

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10-24-2012, 03:19 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
James Van Riemsdyk could give some boost to Barkov who is slumping pretty badly rite now. If not, then Barov is doomed to fall in draft rankings. His honeymoon with Lady Fortuna is over.
Again, how is he "slumping pretty badly right now"? He has gone 2 SM-Liiga games without a point, and before that was on a 4 game point streak, not exactly a bad slump. I'm guessing you think "not many posts about Barkov recently, he must be slumping!" In reality Tappara have played just 2 SM-Liiga games over the past 11 days, pretty hard to score when your team isn't playing.

With that being said, I certainly won't be surprised if Barkov drops below a point per game as the season progresses. He just turned 17 in September, he's playing in one of the better pro men's leagues in the world, and he's the top offensive threat on his team, so the opposition will focus heavily on shutting him down.

What I don't get is why you think him falling below 1 PPG would kill his draft stock. He's got outstanding hockey IQ, he's big and strong, he plays at a high level offensively and defensively, those are the things that scouts care about. I'm sure his production will be great at the end of the season too. Do you really think 1 PPG is poor production for a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga? Question for Finnish fans: has a 17 year old EVER hit 1+ PPG in the SM-Liiga? Mikael Granlund is the only one who comes to mind as being close to 1 PPG, and he was still a bit below. Many top Finnish prospects don't even make the SM-Liiga as a 17 year old, and the few who do generally do not produce much at all. Granlund is the only player I can think of who has been particularly close to 1 PPG recently in the SM-Liiga, all the other top drafted Fins were well below 1 PPG (Mikko Koivu, Tuomo Ruutu, Joel Armia, Joni Pitkanen, etc.), with many being closer to 0.1 PPG.

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10-24-2012, 03:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Again, how is he "slumping pretty badly right now"? He has gone 2 SM-Liiga games without a point, and before that was on a 4 game point streak, not exactly a bad slump. I'm guessing you think "not many posts about Barkov recently, he must be slumping!" In reality Tappara have played just 2 SM-Liiga games over the past 11 days, pretty hard to score when your team isn't playing.

With that being said, I certainly won't be surprised if Barkov drops below a point per game as the season progresses. He just turned 17 in September, he's playing in one of the better pro men's leagues in the world, and he's the top offensive threat on his team, so the opposition will focus heavily on shutting him down.

What I don't get is why you think him falling below 1 PPG would kill his draft stock. He's got outstanding hockey IQ, he's big and strong, he plays at a high level offensively and defensively, those are the things that scouts care about. I'm sure his production will be great at the end of the season too. Do you really think 1 PPG is poor production for a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga? Question for Finnish fans: has a 17 year old EVER hit 1+ PPG in the SM-Liiga? Mikael Granlund is the only one who comes to mind as being close to 1 PPG, and he was still a bit below. Many top Finnish prospects don't even make the SM-Liiga as a 17 year old, and the few who do generally do not produce much at all. Granlund is the only player I can think of who has been particularly close to 1 PPG recently in the SM-Liiga, all the other top drafted Fins were well below 1 PPG (Mikko Koivu, Tuomo Ruutu, Joel Armia, Joni Pitkanen, etc.), with many being closer to 0.1 PPG.

I said that the word "slump" might be wrong one. (Or did I??) It's just semantics, not a big deal. What I mean is that his production WILL most likely go down now given the circumstances: bad team, mediocre linemates, opposition focusing on shutting him down, fatigue due to his age, pressure due to big expectations, and as Woodlief suggested "the end of lucky bounces" as it seems... So, this is more a prediction than indication of current state of affairs; as I said, red flags are there, and he has been o+o now - what - for two games. So, I predict things will go on like this if not worse from now on. And it will increase pressure on the kid - and we will see barkov struggling.


And as everyone has noticed this is a deep draft. So,
THIS will definitely affect his draft stock. - How much? Well. i don't know. We will see how bad the "slump" turns out to be.

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10-24-2012, 04:16 PM
  #92
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I can't believe you guys are arguing over a 17 year old who's scoring at a PPG clip and will likely finish the season around that pace...

He's getting plenty of time as his teams best player.

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10-24-2012, 04:47 PM
  #93
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Question for Finnish fans: has a 17 year old EVER hit 1+ PPG in the SM-Liiga?
Never according to eliteprospects.

Granlund is the closest with a ppg of 0.93 (6 points in 6 games in the playoffs).
Second closest is Jari Torkki who had 0.88 ppg in 82-83.
Barkov has now a 1.13 ppg so he's still way ahead of anyone else.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league...ame=&order=PPG <- link to eliteprospects sm-liiga scorers under-18

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10-24-2012, 04:54 PM
  #94
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Again, how is he "slumping pretty badly right now"? He has gone 2 SM-Liiga games without a point, and before that was on a 4 game point streak, not exactly a bad slump. I'm guessing you think "not many posts about Barkov recently, he must be slumping!" In reality Tappara have played just 2 SM-Liiga games over the past 11 days, pretty hard to score when your team isn't playing.

With that being said, I certainly won't be surprised if Barkov drops below a point per game as the season progresses. He just turned 17 in September, he's playing in one of the better pro men's leagues in the world, and he's the top offensive threat on his team, so the opposition will focus heavily on shutting him down.

What I don't get is why you think him falling below 1 PPG would kill his draft stock. He's got outstanding hockey IQ, he's big and strong, he plays at a high level offensively and defensively, those are the things that scouts care about. I'm sure his production will be great at the end of the season too. Do you really think 1 PPG is poor production for a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga? Question for Finnish fans: has a 17 year old EVER hit 1+ PPG in the SM-Liiga? Mikael Granlund is the only one who comes to mind as being close to 1 PPG, and he was still a bit below. Many top Finnish prospects don't even make the SM-Liiga as a 17 year old, and the few who do generally do not produce much at all. Granlund is the only player I can think of who has been particularly close to 1 PPG recently in the SM-Liiga, all the other top drafted Fins were well below 1 PPG (Mikko Koivu, Tuomo Ruutu, Joel Armia, Joni Pitkanen, etc.), with many being closer to 0.1 PPG.
Olli Jokinen was close to PPG at his draft year but both Mikael Granlund and Olli Jokinen played pure offensive role without any defensive duties. They wasn't capable of playing center like Barkov is. When Granlund was moved to the center to play more well rounded game his production didn't improve in his post draft year at his 18-19 year old season he finished below PPG. Barkov is already playing center and already plays strong game in the every zone. He is playing in every situation PK, PP and leading his team right now. He have been carrying his team on his young shoulders at this season at 17. Granlund and Olli Jokinen had both great rookie seasons but they weren't the back bone of their team like Barkov is now or they didn't play close as compete game as Barkov is doing right now and still he is matching their offensive production. Barkov is best 17 year old player i've ever seen in FEL with fair margin if we take goalies out of discussion. Offensively there might be not much difference but in overall game he is in other level than Granlund or Jokinen or any other 17 year old skater we have ever seen in FEL. Question is when we have seen as dominant 17 year old player in top european league ? I think that there is not many if any. Barkov is for sure special prospect from european standpoint but so is for example Elias Lindholm. Loffer never answered me on Barkov being lucky? He has 1 lucky goal in IFK game when he set up like 5-6 good goal scoring chances but his line mates didn't score? He has been very unlucky in my opinion.

I won't comment where he will be drafted because i have limited views on other draftees but i'm just happy that there is an special player from finland like Barkov. I don't care where he will be drafted but i know that without injuries Barkov is going to be very very good NHL-player in the future. He is certain NHLer in my books and he has potential to be next finnish superstar player in the NHL. With this developement pace he will play in the NHL next season at age of 18.


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10-24-2012, 05:46 PM
  #95
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Loffer never answered me on Barkov being lucky? He has 1 lucky goal in IFK game when he set up like 5-6 good goal scoring chances but his line mates didn't score? He has been very unlucky in my opinion.
As Woodlief says in Red Line Report article, Barkov's been lucky with his goals. Many of them were lucky bounces, rebounds and deflections. He just "scoops" pucks in front of the net in several clips/streams I've seen. I think he's been somewhat lucky with his OWN goals but to some extent unlucky with his linemates unability to score from his passes.

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10-24-2012, 05:53 PM
  #96
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As Woodlief says in Red Line Report article, Barkov's been lucky with his goals. Many of them were lucky bounces, rebounds and deflections. He just "scoops" pucks in front of the net in several clips/streams I've seen. I think he's been somewhat lucky with his OWN goals but to some extent unlucky with his linemates unability to score from his passes.
It's about his positioning and his hockeyIQ. Show me an example from his lucky goals other than IFK goal. He's unlucky not to have more points. That Redline article claims that Barkov haven't impressed with his overall game... Do you really believe that bs? Barkov have been money in the every zone so far. I'll say it again. Post clips from his "lucky" goals this year. There is 1 IMO maybe 2 maxium but he has have played alot of open netters for his team mates and they haven't been able to score not to forget many of very good other setups. Talks about him being lucky can stop right now or him being in the slump. There will be longer pointless game streaks than 2 in this season for Barkov and it's very very likely for 17 year old. We can't expect too much from him. Him ending around PPG or little below is amazing if we add his other attributes what he brings in the game right now. Granlund and Jokinen brought only offensive production to their teams at their draft year but weren't the backbone of their team. Barkov is best player on his team who brings everything in the table and still producing in the same pace(actually better right now) and is carrying his team as 17 year old. So you should calm down and don't make yourself look foolish. I know that you have good points at times but now in this case they are nonsence.


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10-24-2012, 06:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
As Woodlief says in Red Line Report article, Barkov's been lucky with his goals. Many of them were lucky bounces, rebounds and deflections. He just "scoops" pucks in front of the net in several clips/streams I've seen. I think he's been somewhat lucky with his OWN goals but to some extent unlucky with his linemates unability to score from his passes.
Yes, but Woodlief also followed up with this VERY important tidbit that you left out:

Quote:
But hey, isn't that what naturally instinctive players do? Besides, it's not like we're expecting him to dominate in the SM-liiga barely a month past his 17th birthday.
That is a HUGE comment that you left out. Hockey sense has always been one of the hardest thing to identify, some might call it lucky bounces, some might call it an understand where to be.

I haven't seen Barkov play yet so I will withhold any comments, but I think leaving out that part of Woodlief's analysis on Barkov is foolish.

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10-24-2012, 07:03 PM
  #98
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It's about his positioning and his hockeyIQ. Show me an example from his lucky goals other than IFK goal. He's unlucky not to have more points. That Redline article claims that Barkov haven't impressed with his overall game... Do you really believe that bs? Barkov have been money in the every zone so far. I'll say it again. Post clips from his "lucky" goals this year. There is 1 IMO maybe 2 maxium but he has have played alot of open netters for his team mates and they haven't been able to score not to forget many of very good other setups. Talks about him being lucky can stop right now or him being in the slump. There will be longer pointless game streaks than 2 in this season for Barkov and it's very very likely for 17 year old. We can't expect too much from him. Him ending around PPG or little below is amazing if we add his other attributes what he brings in the game right now. Granlund and Jokinen brought only offensive production to their teams at their draft year but weren't the backbone of their team. Barkov is best player on his team who brings everything in the table and still producing in the same pace(actually better right now) and is carrying his team as 17 year old. So you should calm down and don't make yourself look foolish. I know that you have good points at times but now in this case they are nonsence.

I am not denying anything above. He has all the tools and ability to be a really good player. (He is already amazingly good.) All i am saying is that I am a tad worried that things won't go as smoothly from now on. First of all, his team seems to be rubbish. How can you expect a kid of his age to carry it? Secondly, after the hot start hes been focused by opposition shutting him down. It may wear him out. Okay, maybe Woodliefs "bs" distracted me and those goals weren't lucky. I am just predicting "difficult times" compared to the easy hot start he got to the season. Realistically, i don't think Barkov has any chance to challenge the top 2 spots in the draft. So, he can at best keep his "current spot" (#3) or, most likely, fall a few spots. I admit I used a bit too strong expressions and colorful language to "get some juice out of the the meat".

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10-24-2012, 07:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Loffer View Post
I am not denying anything above. He has all the tools and ability to be a really good player. (He is already amazingly good.) All i am saying is that I am a tad worried that things won't go as smoothly from now on. First of all, his team seems to be rubbish. How can you expect a kid of his age to carry it? Secondly, after the hot start hes been focused by opposition shutting him down. It may wear him out. Okay, maybe Woodliefs "bs" distracted me and those goals weren't lucky. I am just predicting "difficult times" compared to the easy hot start he got to the season. Realistically, i don't think Barkov has any chance to challenge the top 2 spots in the draft. So, he can at best keep his "current spot" (#3) or, most likely, fall a few spots. I admit I used a bit too strong expressions and colorful language to "get some juice out of the the meat".
Just want to clarify if this is the colorful language you are referring to or not. I think its an extremely tough thing to beat out Jones and MacKinnon in the top 2 spot, but 0%? ABSOLUTELY no chance? Not even 5%?

Careful with your language because that is what us posters will pounce on.

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10-24-2012, 07:45 PM
  #100
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I am not denying anything above. He has all the tools and ability to be a really good player. (He is already amazingly good.) All i am saying is that I am a tad worried that things won't go as smoothly from now on. First of all, his team seems to be rubbish. How can you expect a kid of his age to carry it? Secondly, after the hot start hes been focused by opposition shutting him down. It may wear him out. Okay, maybe Woodliefs "bs" distracted me and those goals weren't lucky. I am just predicting "difficult times" compared to the easy hot start he got to the season. Realistically, i don't think Barkov has any chance to challenge the top 2 spots in the draft. So, he can at best keep his "current spot" (#3) or, most likely, fall a few spots. I admit I used a bit too strong expressions and colorful language to "get some juice out of the the meat".
Seems like you're back-pedalling pretty hard from your original position:

"All the signs of the greatest slump ever"
"After the first period no points for Barkov. It seems he and his line are struggling now after the hot start. Barkov may fall quite a bit if this ***** continues"
"James Van Riemsdyk could give some boost to Barkov who is slumping pretty badly rite now. If not, then Barov is doomed to fall in draft rankings."

First you talk about "all signs of the greatest slump ever," "doomed to fall in draft rankings," etc., but now you're saying that you'd project him to go roughly in the 3-6 range (3rd, or a few spots lower)? I would say that's where most Barkov fans are predicting he'll go, if he gets drafted somewhere around 3rd-6th that wouldn't represent any sort of "drop" at all.

As for "no chance to go top 2," it seems a bit early to say. I don't see him beating MacKinnon, but how are you so confident about Barkov vs. Jones? Who knows, maybe neither Barkov nor Jones will go top 2. Regardless, you make it seem like production would be the main thing hurting his chances, when his production has been phenomenal, and his year-end numbers will almost certainly be among the best ever for a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga. If there's anything that prevents him from going top 2, it'll be a lack of explosiveness in his game, a lack of really dynamic ability with the puck. Not that I think that's a major problem, it's reasonably common with big, high IQ centres (think Joe Thornton, Mats Sundin, Eric Staal, Mikko Koivu, etc.), but I would say that is the main strike against his game. It's definitely not production, which will be a big positive, not a negative.

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