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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Hamilton or Toronto2/Markham

View Poll Results: Where
Hamilton 107 47.56%
GTA2/Markham 118 52.44%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  #101
throatguzzler
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Hamilton. A team in Markham is too much overkill for the area.

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10-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  #102
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Should just put another team in the ACC.

The idea of Bell or Rogers giving up the Leafs brand in exchange for a second team in Toronto is laughable.

More likely scenario is Bell/Rogers doesnt make a stink about a second team in Toronto, but in exchange they get first right to match any local TV deal.

Rogers and Bell still keep the Leafs brand, but also get much coveted content rights from the second Toronto team. Its win win.

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10-24-2012, 05:25 PM
  #103
Killion
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post

The idea of Bell or Rogers giving up the Leafs brand in exchange for a second team in Toronto is laughable.

Rogers and Bell still keep the Leafs brand, but also get much coveted content rights from the second Toronto team. Its win win.
... you do realize that these two statements in the same post are in diametrical opposition to one another, right?

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10-24-2012, 06:25 PM
  #104
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After Bettman rammed the Islanders right in the Rangers backyard today Bell or Rogers wont have any say into the expansion team that goes to Hamilton

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10-24-2012, 06:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
After Bettman rammed the Islanders right in the Rangers backyard today Bell or Rogers wont have any say into the expansion team that goes to Hamilton
You and I would like to think that, wouldn't we? But it won't happen: The Islanders are still technically in their territory, aren't they? Also, these teams are in NY and not Canada.

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10-24-2012, 06:38 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.
While technically in Southern Ontario, London is usually referred to as being in Southwestern Ontario. When people refer to putting a second team in Southern Ontario, they're referring to the Golden Horseshoe exclusively.

In saying that, it simply doesn't make sense to put a team in London. The city may be central geographically but it also all by its lonesome. The nearest major population centres are a couple hour drive away, at least.

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10-24-2012, 06:45 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
After Bettman rammed the Islanders right in the Rangers backyard today Bell or Rogers wont have any say into the expansion team that goes to Hamilton
the isles already had the right to move to brooklyn/queens. It was part of the original territorial fee paid to the rangers.

botta talked about it today on marek vs wyshynsky podcast.

he also mentioned that wang and dolan senior are close and that the dolans would have likely signed off on this move.

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10-24-2012, 06:48 PM
  #108
Echoes of 1980
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
After Bettman rammed the Islanders right in the Rangers backyard today Bell or Rogers wont have any say into the expansion team that goes to Hamilton
Islanders paid a territorial fee already. Nobody "rammed" anyone anywhere.

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10-24-2012, 06:51 PM
  #109
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neither.

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10-24-2012, 06:58 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JetsFlyHigh View Post
London is in the center of SOUTHERN ONTARIO. Again, it will serve all hockey fans in the region. If not London, then Markham is the answer, since its in the GTA and its better location than Hamilton.
Unlike Hamilton, London it is not the centre of the great population numbers of southern Ontario.

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10-24-2012, 07:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Echoes of 1980 View Post
Islanders paid a territorial fee already. Nobody "rammed" anyone anywhere.
Did they pay to the Rangers only, or to the Devils as well?

How close is the Barclay Center to the Devils' Prudential Center?

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10-24-2012, 07:07 PM
  #112
Echoes of 1980
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Did they pay to the Rangers only, or to the Devils as well?

How close is the Barclay Center to the Devils' Prudential Center?
The fee was supposedly paid as a prerequisite to the Islanders team formation.

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10-24-2012, 08:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Unlike Hamilton, London it is not the centre of the great population numbers of southern Ontario.
Where did this myth come from?

Toronto + York + Peel + Durham + Halton = 6 million.
The rest of the Golden Horseshoe = 2.7 million.

If there's 6 million people living east of Hamilton and 2.7 million living both within and west/south of it, how is it possible that the centre of population falls in Hamilton?


Last edited by htpwn: 10-24-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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10-24-2012, 09:00 PM
  #114
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What southern Ontario needs is a regional NHL. team not 2nd NHL. team for Toronto & Hamilton would be a perfect geographical choice to put a regional NHL. team not Markham because Hamilton has 2 major highway running through the city


Last edited by JMROWE: 10-24-2012 at 09:09 PM.
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10-24-2012, 09:05 PM
  #115
Confucius
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
If any of you care to look at a map & you would see that Hamilton is centrelized location that would be perfect for a regional NHL. team because there are 2 major highways that run through Hamilton the QEW. & The 403 that run in all directions & would be much easier for people to get to that are come in from out of town .
What about the fans from Sudbury, Northbay, Orillia, Peterborough.....

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10-24-2012, 09:05 PM
  #116
Killion
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
If any of you care to look at a map & you would see that Hamilton is centrelized location that would be perfect for a regional NHL. team because there are 2 major highways that run through Hamilton the QEW. & The 403 that run in all directions & would be much easier for people to get to that are come in from out of town .
...ya, ease of access for sure. Markham as well though is easy to get to.


Last edited by Killion: 10-25-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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10-24-2012, 09:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Where did this myth come from?

Toronto + York + Peel + Durham + Halton = 6 million.
The rest of the Golden Horseshoe = 2.7 million.

If there's 6 million people living east of Hamilton and 2.7 million living both within and west/south of it, how is it possible that the centre of population falls in Hamilton?
I assume that he's making the assumption that the drawing area for "southern ontario" ends at the wentworth/halton line.

Even in that case, i'm not sure if london is really the population center.
ignoring lennox and grey
you have 620k west of middlesex
585k in elgin, huron, and middlesex
1.7M from middlesex to halton (not including the 500k in halton who would realistically not all stay with the leafs).

i'd wager the true population center is around kitchener, so if I were to build a NEW arena, that's the area to target. Considering there already is a perfectly good starting point for that arena in hamilton, which isnt that far, arguing hamilton is best for southern ontario isnt that hard, especially considering you no longer have to worry about detroit whining, whereas london could certainly draw from essex.

although if there were a team in hamilton, first thing i'd do is start lobbying the ontario government to expand hwy8 between kitchener and hamilton, would cut the time between k-w and copps to ~1hour.


Last edited by danishh: 10-24-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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10-24-2012, 09:14 PM
  #118
Ryan34222
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Too bad your vote isn't one of the thirty that actually matter.
Haha like the other 29 votes mater when it comes to TML's territory..

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10-24-2012, 09:15 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
me too. but it will come down to the bog deciding on when they wanna cash that billion dollar southern ontario cheque now, the same one thats just been sitting on the table for years, decades even. having left this market untapped for as long as copps has been around, in favour of trying to grow the sport in the US, has been a very bad business decision. but whatevs, eh.

for minimal investment, hamilton would easily be as profitable as markham (and more than QC). and profitable today, not two, three, four years from now. if the bog wants to make real money, real fast, the coyotes will be there this year. the city is doing its part by bringing in professional arena management. the fans are ready. owners are lining up. pegula is fine. mlse will get to show a few more games (and likely dropped opposition when approved).

so simple even glendale could handle it.

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10-24-2012, 09:23 PM
  #120
Ryan34222
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
I assume that he's making the assumption that the drawing area for "southern ontario" ends at the wentworth/halton line.

Even in that case, i'm not sure if london is really the population center.
ignoring lennox and grey
you have 620k west of middlesex
585k in elgin, huron, and middlesex
1.7M from middlesex to halton (not including the 500k in halton who would realistically not all stay with the leafs).

i'd wager the true population center is around kitchener, so if I were to build a NEW arena, that's the area to target. Considering there already is a perfectly good starting point for that arena in hamilton, which isnt that far, arguing hamilton is best for southern ontario isnt that hard, especially considering you no longer have to worry about detroit whining, whereas london could certainly draw from essex.

although if there were a team in hamilton, first thing i'd do is start lobbying the ontario government to expand hwy8 between kitchener and hamilton, would cut the time between k-w and copps to ~1hour.
KW to Hamilton takes an hour if you're driving miss daisy.. 45 mins tops and that's not even speeding..

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10-24-2012, 09:30 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
KW to Hamilton takes an hour if you're driving miss daisy.. 45 mins tops and that's not even speeding..
8? 401/6? maybe edge to edge, but not burbs to DT at night when games are on.

i think kw and ham are too far apart to expect many STH to make that drive during the winter, especially families with kids.

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10-24-2012, 09:35 PM
  #122
danishh
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KW to Hamilton takes an hour if you're driving miss daisy.. 45 mins tops and that's not even speeding..
i mean with rush hour traffic, which is when people would be going from kw to hamilton for games.

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10-24-2012, 09:35 PM
  #123
Ryan34222
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
8? 401/6? maybe edge to edge, but not burbs to DT at night when games are on.

i think kw and ham are too far apart to expect many STH to make that drive during the winter, especially families with kids.
Both.. 8's a tad longer and some speeding maybe involved..

Your probably right they wouldn't make the trip but wouldn't stop them from buying ST and selling some games for $$.

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10-24-2012, 09:36 PM
  #124
Stanley Foobrick
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
After Bettman rammed the Islanders right in the Rangers backyard today Bell or Rogers wont have any say into the expansion team that goes to Hamilton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes of 1980 View Post
Islanders paid a territorial fee already. Nobody "rammed" anyone anywhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/sp...lpon.html?_r=0

re last line:

Quote:
In 1972, when the Islanders joined the N.H.L., the $4.5 million territorial fee they paid the Rangers gave them the right to occupy only Nassau County. But a 1986 amendment to the agreement allowed the Islanders to move to Queens and Brooklyn, and within Nassau and Suffolk counties.
... so I don't believe any fee was paid.

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10-24-2012, 09:44 PM
  #125
Ryan34222
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i mean with rush hour traffic, which is when people would be going from kw to hamilton for games.
Been there done that.. It's not to bad coming east 401 but yah taking hwy 8 can be slow through cambridge at 5ish.. 6pm is good.

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